Traction Issues?

Nords · 06-04-2009, 12:45 AM

Hummmm, could it be because I'm running the Intrax on max softness but since fitting the Goodyear F1 assimetrics, the CSL doesn't grip particularly well. I was hoofing on a bit today on the roads around Chipping Norton and braked for a corner. Yes it was bumpy and I was going some, but the ABS kicked in for a significant length of time and I wouldn't have expected it. Tested the brakes/tyres on a smooth bit 2 minutes later and the tyres gripped much better (they performed as I would have expected), so bumps caused it? The front tyres don't seem to grip around roundabouts, hence allow much understeer than I would have expected.

I also went through a average 50 mph zone on the M40 and was followed by a merc of some description. The end of the zone came up, dropped to 3rd and floored it to leave him. The DSC light flashed frantically and it held the power back for 3-4 seconds before gripping and accelerating. On the way home, I was driving up Birdlip Hill and went around the roundabout in second, following a slow MCS which moved over eventually (I was then in third), floored it and again the DSC light lit up like fireworks night.

Pressures are 34 psi allround (cold), Intrax on max softness (I'm going to try the 35 clicks off max next). No snaking under power (it keeps on a straight line) so not RTAB?

Thoughts?

Hazy · 06-04-2009, 09:15 AM

It aint the tyres mate, I'm running the same tyres on standard suspension and have no problems at all. I run 32psi FWIW...

**Mark CSL** · 06-04-2009, 12:37 PM

34Psi sounds abit hard cold you might be running on the center of the tyre
no grip try 32psi

Nords · 06-04-2009, 08:11 PM

Dropped to 32 psi rear and 30 psi front. I just having a hard job remembering if Intrax is soft when screwed fully in/out (say clockwise when looking from above)...?

Just off to have a search...

Hazy · 07-04-2009, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nords

Dropped to 32 psi rear and 30 psi front. I just having a hard job remembering if Intrax is soft when screwed fully in/out (say clockwise when looking from above)...?

Just off to have a search...

Uh-oh, twiddling with summat you dont understand = the mother of all fq ups

Nords · 07-04-2009, 11:49 AM

I know matey, I wouldn't dare touch the GSXR's as it has all sorts of different adjustments. Just let Phil Macallen play with that (I think he opened his new shop in Lisburn this weekend too!)

A quick update, the tyres are 1000 miles old now and temperature cycled numerous times. The geo isn't quite right at the moment, Matt at Fearnsport were going to do it when I had the Goodyears on at Silverstone. Unfortunately the track rod ends on both sides were jammed solid and Matt didn't want to break them hence no adjustment there and then. I asked BM Wellsway to do the track rod ends during the Insp2 but the car is too low for them with the Intrax to KDS it without taking the bumpers off, so they did it 'roughly'. Adrian, the service manager there told me this over the phone and suggested Thorney do a full geo, although I was planning to take it back to Fearnsport as they are close.

All that said, would the geo being slightly out allow the DSC light to flash like a bugger (sic) on warm tyres, in a straight line on the motorway, at 60, when giving it full beans in 3rd? Or understeer at slow speeds around roundabout? It is just that it doesn't seem 'right'...

I have now altered the front suspension and lowered the tyre pressures to 30F and 32R cold...

Nords · 07-04-2009, 11:55 AM

Whoops, forgot. Someone else suggested PS2s (yes but they were £300 more for a set), the goodyears aren't exactly 'budget'! Another suggested PZero Neros and although I'm told they were designed for the aftermarket alloy market, but people do rate them well. I went for the Goodyears as various tests (EVO) had rated them better than PS2 et al.

They do look quite PS2-ish, don't they?

Goodyear...

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Go...Asymmetric.htm

PS2...

http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Mi...-Sport-PS2.htm

Now, I'm the first to admit that tyres are really important (biker influence), however Autocar and I think EVO rated the F1 to be at least as good as the PS2 (okay so within 10% perhaps). They are a new design, big outer shoulder and I would be happy if they performed within 10% of a PS2 on the road. Not interested in track performance from them, just don't want them to wheelspin on a warm dry day in a straight line at 60...

I thought the Contis on my old M3 were okay, especially in the wet (however they did understeer badly at the 'ring). On the Focus (okay fwd), the conti3s I put on it to sell it were as good as the 2 sets of PS2s I ran on it...

FULL UPDATE:
Okay, this is a bit weird...

Went for a hoof late yesterday afternoon after playing around with the front Intrax settings. Tried 30 off max but couldn't get to the rears just yet. Dropped the pressures from 34 rear to 32 and 34 front to 30. Once warm they went up about 3 psi.

I couldn't get the rears to light up the DSC with 'DSC on' or MTrak on' in third in the dry, so tried second. They still wouldn't get the DSC button flashing but the change from second to third took longer than I was expecting (extra second?). The change from third to fourth was as expected (S5 throughout).

Tried again last last night and it had been raining. Tried hoofing it in third and no DSC light flashing either in 'normal' or MTrak on. What's going on, is it a gearbox thing 'learning' me after the Insp2?

I haven't tried to change the rear Intrax settings throughout and are either full soft or full hard (but I think they are full soft, which way is clockwise!!!?). The understeer on slow roundabouts didn't seem too bad in the wet tonight however have dropped 4 psi in the fronts to 30psi cold and gone to 30 off Intrax max...

Hummmmmm....

Hazy · 07-04-2009, 03:35 PM

personally I think you are on the best all round tyres going, tyres are a very personal thing arent they. As regards to all this strange handling you are experiencing, I would deffo recommend a full set up from someone good, should sort your problems. I tinkered with mine and Radders M3 and introduced understeer that we never had.....gutted!!! Gotta take that to Thorney or Simpson to get it dialled back out now

Nords · 07-04-2009, 04:54 PM

As a fellow bike rider, I totally agree about the tyre thing. I replace my GSXR tyres as a pair because the front won't last 2x a rear (approx 2000-2200 miles). The front isn't worn out but 'stepped' badly by 3K miles.

Played around with the car today, checked back and front suspension by driving up ramps to allow my old (rubbish) trolley jack under the car. I then did a headstand to make sure I was adjusting it 'proper clockwise' on the fronts! I can confirm, both front and back Intrax were on max softness before.

I'm now on the previous owners wet 'ring settings of (from max) 27F and 29R. Tyres are (psi) 30F & 32R cold, after some hooning these are rising by 4 psi in the front and 3 in the rear. I couldn't get the rears to unstick no matter what I did, unless 'getting some air' over the bumpy stuff just next to Cotswold Wildlife Park.

I can only assume it was the road surface (but didn't see anything and funny place, the end of an averaged speed camera-ed 50 zone on the M40) or the SMG getting to know me after being reset.

Very strange...

bryce · 08-04-2009, 11:19 AM

Sounds like your sorted now then, and your F1s are scrubbed in.

I'll be going F1s next. From what Ive read they're just as good as PS2s.

06-04-2009, 12:45 AM	#1
Nords S5, Sport Off, DSC M-track Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 527 Casino cash: $1272	Traction Issues? Hummmm, could it be because I'm running the Intrax on max softness but since fitting the Goodyear F1 assimetrics, the CSL doesn't grip particularly well. I was hoofing on a bit today on the roads around Chipping Norton and braked for a corner. Yes it was bumpy and I was going some, but the ABS kicked in for a significant length of time and I wouldn't have expected it. Tested the brakes/tyres on a smooth bit 2 minutes later and the tyres gripped much better (they performed as I would have expected), so bumps caused it? The front tyres don't seem to grip around roundabouts, hence allow much understeer than I would have expected. I also went through a average 50 mph zone on the M40 and was followed by a merc of some description. The end of the zone came up, dropped to 3rd and floored it to leave him. The DSC light flashed frantically and it held the power back for 3-4 seconds before gripping and accelerating. On the way home, I was driving up Birdlip Hill and went around the roundabout in second, following a slow MCS which moved over eventually (I was then in third), floored it and again the DSC light lit up like fireworks night. Pressures are 34 psi allround (cold), Intrax on max softness (I'm going to try the 35 clicks off max next). No snaking under power (it keeps on a straight line) so not RTAB? Thoughts?

06-04-2009, 12:37 PM	#3
Mark CSL CSL Register Uber-poster! Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Scotland Posts: 8,777 Casino cash: $42229	34Psi sounds abit hard cold you might be running on the center of the tyre no grip try 32psi __________________ www.procarkits.co.uk

07-04-2009, 11:55 AM	#7
Nords S5, Sport Off, DSC M-track Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 527 Casino cash: $1272	Whoops, forgot. Someone else suggested PS2s (yes but they were £300 more for a set), the goodyears aren't exactly 'budget'! Another suggested PZero Neros and although I'm told they were designed for the aftermarket alloy market, but people do rate them well. I went for the Goodyears as various tests (EVO) had rated them better than PS2 et al. They do look quite PS2-ish, don't they? Goodyear... http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Go...Asymmetric.htm PS2... http://www.tyrereviews.co.uk/Tyre/Mi...-Sport-PS2.htm Now, I'm the first to admit that tyres are really important (biker influence), however Autocar and I think EVO rated the F1 to be at least as good as the PS2 (okay so within 10% perhaps). They are a new design, big outer shoulder and I would be happy if they performed within 10% of a PS2 on the road. Not interested in track performance from them, just don't want them to wheelspin on a warm dry day in a straight line at 60... I thought the Contis on my old M3 were okay, especially in the wet (however they did understeer badly at the 'ring). On the Focus (okay fwd), the conti3s I put on it to sell it were as good as the 2 sets of PS2s I ran on it... FULL UPDATE: Okay, this is a bit weird... Went for a hoof late yesterday afternoon after playing around with the front Intrax settings. Tried 30 off max but couldn't get to the rears just yet. Dropped the pressures from 34 rear to 32 and 34 front to 30. Once warm they went up about 3 psi. I couldn't get the rears to light up the DSC with 'DSC on' or MTrak on' in third in the dry, so tried second. They still wouldn't get the DSC button flashing but the change from second to third took longer than I was expecting (extra second?). The change from third to fourth was as expected (S5 throughout). Tried again last last night and it had been raining. Tried hoofing it in third and no DSC light flashing either in 'normal' or MTrak on. What's going on, is it a gearbox thing 'learning' me after the Insp2? I haven't tried to change the rear Intrax settings throughout and are either full soft or full hard (but I think they are full soft, which way is clockwise!!!?). The understeer on slow roundabouts didn't seem too bad in the wet tonight however have dropped 4 psi in the fronts to 30psi cold and gone to 30 off Intrax max... Hummmmmm.... Last edited by Nords; 07-04-2009 at 11:58 AM.

06-04-2009, 09:15 AM	#2
Hazy S5, Sport Off, DSC M-track Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 582 Casino cash: $2853	It aint the tyres mate, I'm running the same tyres on standard suspension and have no problems at all. I run 32psi FWIW...

06-04-2009, 08:11 PM	#4
Nords S5, Sport Off, DSC M-track Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 527 Casino cash: $1272	Dropped to 32 psi rear and 30 psi front. I just having a hard job remembering if Intrax is soft when screwed fully in/out (say clockwise when looking from above)...? Just off to have a search...

07-04-2009, 11:49 AM	#6
Nords S5, Sport Off, DSC M-track Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 527 Casino cash: $1272	I know matey, I wouldn't dare touch the GSXR's as it has all sorts of different adjustments. Just let Phil Macallen play with that (I think he opened his new shop in Lisburn this weekend too!) A quick update, the tyres are 1000 miles old now and temperature cycled numerous times. The geo isn't quite right at the moment, Matt at Fearnsport were going to do it when I had the Goodyears on at Silverstone. Unfortunately the track rod ends on both sides were jammed solid and Matt didn't want to break them hence no adjustment there and then. I asked BM Wellsway to do the track rod ends during the Insp2 but the car is too low for them with the Intrax to KDS it without taking the bumpers off, so they did it 'roughly'. Adrian, the service manager there told me this over the phone and suggested Thorney do a full geo, although I was planning to take it back to Fearnsport as they are close. All that said, would the geo being slightly out allow the DSC light to flash like a bugger (sic) on warm tyres, in a straight line on the motorway, at 60, when giving it full beans in 3rd? Or understeer at slow speeds around roundabout? It is just that it doesn't seem 'right'... I have now altered the front suspension and lowered the tyre pressures to 30F and 32R cold...

07-04-2009, 03:35 PM	#8
Hazy S5, Sport Off, DSC M-track Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 582 Casino cash: $2853	personally I think you are on the best all round tyres going, tyres are a very personal thing arent they. As regards to all this strange handling you are experiencing, I would deffo recommend a full set up from someone good, should sort your problems. I tinkered with mine and Radders M3 and introduced understeer that we never had.....gutted!!! Gotta take that to Thorney or Simpson to get it dialled back out now

07-04-2009, 04:54 PM	#9
Nords S5, Sport Off, DSC M-track Join Date: Jan 2009 Posts: 527 Casino cash: $1272	As a fellow bike rider, I totally agree about the tyre thing. I replace my GSXR tyres as a pair because the front won't last 2x a rear (approx 2000-2200 miles). The front isn't worn out but 'stepped' badly by 3K miles. Played around with the car today, checked back and front suspension by driving up ramps to allow my old (rubbish) trolley jack under the car. I then did a headstand to make sure I was adjusting it 'proper clockwise' on the fronts! I can confirm, both front and back Intrax were on max softness before. I'm now on the previous owners wet 'ring settings of (from max) 27F and 29R. Tyres are (psi) 30F & 32R cold, after some hooning these are rising by 4 psi in the front and 3 in the rear. I couldn't get the rears to unstick no matter what I did, unless 'getting some air' over the bumpy stuff just next to Cotswold Wildlife Park. I can only assume it was the road surface (but didn't see anything and funny place, the end of an averaged speed camera-ed 50 zone on the M40) or the SMG getting to know me after being reset. Very strange...

08-04-2009, 11:19 AM	#10
bryce S5, Sport On, DSC M-track Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Scotland (sw) Posts: 1,369 Casino cash: $2512	Sounds like your sorted now then, and your F1s are scrubbed in. I'll be going F1s next. From what Ive read they're just as good as PS2s.