One for the true CSL geeks!

Danno_el_Mano · 14-06-2013, 02:00 PM

Greetings all!

We've had a bit of a CSL blowout on PistonHeads the last couple of weeks but we've saved the best until last, at least for the true geeks. In safe company here though, I'm hoping.

Anyway, we've just put a story up based on Sean's chat with BMW's Hans-Bruno Starke and Peter Schmidt, both of whom worked on the original CSL project. The 'public' story is here.

But you want more than that, right? Well, tucked away here's the full transcript of Sean's conversation. It goes on ... and on but if you're really into the subject there's some great stuff within, a bit of myth busting and heaps of enthusiasm from both guys. 10 years ago or not, the CSL clearly holds a special place in their hearts.

Anyway, thought this would be the place to share it and I hope you enjoy the read.

Cheers,

Dan

**outnumbered** · 14-06-2013, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Danno_el_Mano

But you want more than that, right? Well, tucked away here's the full transcript of Sean's conversation. It goes on ... and on but if you're really into the subject there's some great stuff within, a bit of myth busting and heaps of enthusiasm from both guys. 10 years ago or not, the CSL clearly holds a special place in their hearts.

Anyway, thought this would be the place to share it and I hope you enjoy the read.

Cheers,

Dan

Interesting stuff. Thanks for publishing it.

E46CSL · 14-06-2013, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by outnumbered

Interesting stuff. Thanks for publishing it.

+ 1

billyboysm3 · 14-06-2013, 02:40 PM

Nice one Dan. Ill grab a beer later and read the full transcript

**Brandtner** · 14-06-2013, 03:33 PM

Great read, thank for posting.

streightsix · 14-06-2013, 04:18 PM

Excellent, thank you Dan & Sean.
I agree "best until last" ...

**alexk** · 14-06-2013, 04:23 PM

You will call me cynical for being critical once more.

I struggle a bit with the following :
- the engineer (supposed to be the guru) does not know that the csl has different rear caliper (piston diameter is 1mm bigger) over the m3
- the engineer does not know that the csl is not only lower at the front but at the rear too
- the engineer is missing other significant weight savings like lighter battery, carpet (for LHD cars), microfilter housing, wiring harness, deletion of sound proof material etc
- the engineer does not seem to remember that the csl has thinner metal on the exhaust manifold, mid section to make the exhaust lighter. Also, that it has different cats and different exhaust
- the engineer does not seem to know that the csl has different geo settings at the rear compared to the normal m3
- the engineer does not seem to know that the caster of the CSL is the same with the normal M3 as the front top mounts and wishbones are the same between the 2 versions. Obviously the strut tower is the same on the two shells ...

Therefore, I really struggle to accept all these statements and the facts show he is far from being a CSL guru.

I do not understand why BMW is sending people to speak about a car that they do not know all the details or know things the wrong way around.

Now I doubt that they know if the CSL has extra welding points on the chassis or less undercarriage coating or thinner color.

**Mike R** · 14-06-2013, 04:37 PM

I did think the same as Alex with regard to some of the answers - they seemed a bit wishy-washy, as if they were winging it

. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that the author seemed to know more about the CSL than they did

.

Neil M · 14-06-2013, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexk

You will call me cynical for being critical once more.

I struggle a bit with the following :
- the engineer (supposed to be the guru) does not know that the csl has different rear caliper (piston diameter is 1mm bigger) over the m3
- the engineer does not know that the csl is not only lower at the front but at the rear too
- the engineer is missing other significant weight savings like lighter battery, carpet (for LHD cars), microfilter housing, wiring harness, deletion of sound proof material etc
- the engineer does not seem to remember that the csl has thinner metal on the exhaust manifold, mid section to make the exhaust lighter. Also, that it has different cats and different exhaust
- the engineer does not seem to know that the csl has different geo settings at the rear compared to the normal m3
- the engineer does not seem to know that the caster of the CSL is the same with the normal M3 as the front top mounts and wishbones are the same between the 2 versions. Obviously the strut tower is the same on the two shells ...

Therefore, I really struggle to accept all these statements and the facts show he is far from being a CSL guru.

I do not understand why BMW is sending people to speak about a car that they do not know all the details or know things the wrong way around.

Now I doubt that they know if the CSL has extra welding points on the chassis or less undercarriage coating or thinner color.

Now, now, Alex calm down you might burst something.

Not cynical just super sensitive!
They say "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing" with the wealth of knowledge at your disposal, it becomes explosive!

You can't expect and engineer that worked on the car 10 years ago to remember everything in fine detail.
He's probably worked on a lot of other cars since, and he, as an individual wouldn't have held responsibility for everything that went into the CSL's production.

After all it only a Magazine article, where the adage "Spot on near enough" usually applies.
Slight misunderstandings are bound to have occurred in the translations as in the video: "Power = Mass x Acceleration" NOT! and that's coming out of BMW's own publicity department.
Another interesting read from the Guys at 'PistonHeads' and long may it continue

0836whimper · 14-06-2013, 06:06 PM

C'mon chaps.

There's mainstream geeky and there's CSL Register uber geeky where people are weighing wheel bolts and from different manufacturers and checking the thickness of paint etc.

It was never going to go that far.

These engineers moved on to other stuff many moons ago and they are probably scratching their head on the details that they don't remember.

14-06-2013, 02:00 PM	#1
Danno_el_Mano Wonky 'L' after Washing Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: London Posts: 2 Casino cash: $285	One for the true CSL geeks! Greetings all! We've had a bit of a CSL blowout on PistonHeads the last couple of weeks but we've saved the best until last, at least for the true geeks. In safe company here though, I'm hoping. Anyway, we've just put a story up based on Sean's chat with BMW's Hans-Bruno Starke and Peter Schmidt, both of whom worked on the original CSL project. The 'public' story is here. But you want more than that, right? Well, tucked away here's the full transcript of Sean's conversation. It goes on ... and on but if you're really into the subject there's some great stuff within, a bit of myth busting and heaps of enthusiasm from both guys. 10 years ago or not, the CSL clearly holds a special place in their hearts. Anyway, thought this would be the place to share it and I hope you enjoy the read. Cheers, Dan

14-06-2013, 04:23 PM	#7
alexk Driving it like I nicked it Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,785 Casino cash: $29970	You will call me cynical for being critical once more. I struggle a bit with the following : - the engineer (supposed to be the guru) does not know that the csl has different rear caliper (piston diameter is 1mm bigger) over the m3 - the engineer does not know that the csl is not only lower at the front but at the rear too - the engineer is missing other significant weight savings like lighter battery, carpet (for LHD cars), microfilter housing, wiring harness, deletion of sound proof material etc - the engineer does not seem to remember that the csl has thinner metal on the exhaust manifold, mid section to make the exhaust lighter. Also, that it has different cats and different exhaust - the engineer does not seem to know that the csl has different geo settings at the rear compared to the normal m3 - the engineer does not seem to know that the caster of the CSL is the same with the normal M3 as the front top mounts and wishbones are the same between the 2 versions. Obviously the strut tower is the same on the two shells ... Therefore, I really struggle to accept all these statements and the facts show he is far from being a CSL guru. I do not understand why BMW is sending people to speak about a car that they do not know all the details or know things the wrong way around. Now I doubt that they know if the CSL has extra welding points on the chassis or less undercarriage coating or thinner color. __________________ www.clubcsl.com - I am a BMW Motorsport fan ! My youtube channel is here

14-06-2013, 04:37 PM	#8
Mike R S6, Sport On, Traction Off Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Norwich Posts: 1,585 Casino cash: $17591	I did think the same as Alex with regard to some of the answers - they seemed a bit wishy-washy, as if they were winging it . In fact, I'd go so far as to say that the author seemed to know more about the CSL than they did . __________________ Mike R Sarcasm is just a free service I provide. Nordschleife, there's only two barriers to worry about - the ones on the left and the ones on the right . CSL number 044

14-06-2013, 02:40 PM	#4
billyboysm3 CSL Register Uber-poster! Join Date: May 2011 Posts: 3,001 Casino cash: $25206	Nice one Dan. Ill grab a beer later and read the full transcript

14-06-2013, 03:33 PM	#5
Brandtner S3 - On the open road Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Australia Posts: 117 Casino cash: $5241	Great read, thank for posting.

14-06-2013, 04:18 PM	#6
streightsix S4 - Getting the hang of it Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: W. Sx Posts: 221 Casino cash: $2253	Excellent, thank you Dan & Sean. I agree "best until last" ...

14-06-2013, 06:06 PM	#10
0836whimper S5, Sport Off, DSC M-track Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Nottingham Posts: 516 Casino cash: $7379	C'mon chaps. There's mainstream geeky and there's CSL Register uber geeky where people are weighing wheel bolts and from different manufacturers and checking the thickness of paint etc. It was never going to go that far. These engineers moved on to other stuff many moons ago and they are probably scratching their head on the details that they don't remember.