But it isn't! It now has the option of cup wheels fitted, so it is no longer "pure".

If Frankie Howard was still with us he'd be using your material :hahaha:

All the selectable options that were originally available, are listed in the 'Owners' section..!

Personally I don't understand the hype, why would the cheapest CSL to buy, be worth more than the most expensive CSL with all options fitted? :whistle:

The ad suggests that it's as BMW intended (a race bread M3 for the road) prompts the question - is it delimited? If not, then so much for being pure! ;)

Being delimited was an option wasn't it? Either it is a no option car, or it has the options to make it as lightweight and track focussed as possible. I would go for delimited and a badge delete :hahaha:

It is nonsense, but if I was selling one and trying to squeeze maximum money from it then I would probably believe it all too.

MC

I think it's definitely worth that to get a no-option car! Someone needs to buy this fast

(When it sells I might have a different opinion though ;))

I do find it ironic that a poverty spec car is now worth the most

Excuse me for being a dumb ass but why has it had the subframe replaced at that mileage? Who was the previous owner? Stig? Suppose he is out a job now hence the sale

Maybe it was just a preventative "fix", as in strengthened, instead of having to be replaced due to cracks?

Convinced this is an age thing rather than use thing. Many have been replaced in last couple of years regardless of mileage.

Let me guess, the fact that the majority of cars have reached the end of their 10 year warranty period within the last coupe of years has nothing to do with it at all ?

But let's get this straight, you really think a piece of pressed mild steel just cracks with age ? No kind of continuous stressing resulting in fatigue is required ?

I just look at the facts...

Cars with 15k to 80k miles all driven differently happen to start cracking over a 2 yr (ish) period for the first time. What about the early cars that got hammered in the first 3 years? Were we talking about fooked sub frames in 2006?

But I defer to your expertise......

Just had mine checked . Still like they were when new I was told.

Ok, for avoidance of doubt. Yes, of course the way the car is driven (and associated stresses) will have an influence. BUT, I don't believe this is the unique cause. There must be an age factor for reasons mentioned.

Fair play. Was never quite sure the reasons myself; age, use, mileage. I bought mine not giving too much off a shit about the boot floor having been done or not. If it goes I'll fix it!

It's one of those will it? Won't it? I do sometimes think 'what the f#*k is that noise?' but think that reflects our roads and vehicle enthusiast's paranoia I think.

Before I got mine was told boot floor was all clear (which goes for nothing), been at dealership 4 times since with nowt mentioned.

Did they (who ever checked it) put that in writing ? :whistle:

There's night and day between technicians across the BMW dealer network.

Mine was checked at Dealer X and given the all clear.

8 weeks later on an Insp1 Gareth @ Elms found subframe issues...

Low mileage has got to be a good thing regardless of service history surly! (Ok I don't mean no history)

Yes BMW did and a recent Check by An independent confirmed it .

Thought I would ask someone who knows a little about the subject of steel & supports.

Hope I repeat this correctly. The problem we are experiencing is related to fatique life not how old the car is. The area in question is being exposed to loading & unloading. The magnitude & frequency will affect the fatique life. So theoretically if the life is 1000 cycles at a given load once this is reached the material will crack. If we expose the car to 900 in its first year & then 10 each year for the next ten years the failure will occur after 11 years. 500 each year then the life is two years. If the loading/unloading is higher or lower it will affect the fatique life exponentially. Interestingly he also said the SMG is also probably contributing to the fatique life. He wanted to see pics of how everything is supported connected so he could give a better explanation.

Do you mean fatigue or are you trying to be all French ?

So am I kinda right ?

I was told that it's usually the rear left subframe mounting point that goes first, so obviously there is extra loading in that corner. If you look at some pictures of the underneath of the car, the main difference between the left and right is the presence of the differential mounting on the left hand side. So one possible cause is that maybe the differential bushing starts failing first, which leads to extra play and then knock on stresses to the rear left subframe bushes/mounting.

Obviously more aggressive driving and more violent gearchanges will affect the bushing, and I also suspect it will be exacerbated as the bushing deteriorates with age.

This is just a theory, so happy to be corrected.

That's exactly it. S6, sticky tyres and drifting will all contribute increased loads. But where's the fun driving like a minge for the sake of what, £2k?

mine went and was fixed in 2010......so sometimes the garage queens do fail early :thumbs:

" . . . driving like a minge . . ." :hahaha:

:hahaha::hahaha::hahaha:

Where all the trouble seems to stem from is the mounting hole is just too big and allows too much movement. I suspect it is like this for alignment purposes, but a friend who has done loads of repairs to these is yet to see one that hasn't lined up perfectly after being refitted (German tolerances being what they are LOL) and so he is looking to make sleeve for the bolts so that there is zero play (and hopefully then no yawing effect to cause the cracks). I'll keep you posted.

Very topical for me, just diagnosed with a crack in the subframe :bigcry:

It's probably been asked before but is there any merit in trying to get BMW to pay/contribute? Local BMW dealer and customer services not much help, just said they could confirm the crack and then apply to BMW, but said nothing about whether it is worth doing.

Any experience after the 10 year cut off? (it's a 53 plate).

If not presumably someone like Bartletts to fix it?

Gareth's your man @ Barts. :thumbs:

Gareth was the one who found it! Damn you Gareth :whistle:

Just can't believe we are all experiencing systematic failure and now having to pay for it!

My car was outside the 10 yr warranty when the subframe was found to be cracked. It had previously passed as ok by a lesser dealer just inside the warranty period. It clearly wasn't as rust could be found in some of the cracks. Anyway I paid to have it properly checked at Elms Bedford who then found cracks on both sides. Elms said they would put my case forward to BMW UK and it came as a big surprise it was accepted :-). Only thing I had to pay for was the hire of the jig. The car had a warranty that had ran for a few years which I believe helped but I also think it makes a big difference who is putting the claim in. Defo worth a try to get it through BMW. Good luck.

Can only help raise the value of all our cars

Another 100 PH posts on gearboxes then...

couldnt help myself .. had to post ( hot66 ) as it annoys me sometimes how much drivel is put on PH ref the CSL

Likewise posted as well

Me too :).

mike, you put it better than I could :thumbs:

Eric Bantona, Bantom of the opera, Bant and Dec. GET INVOLVED LOL

Don't be so hard on the PH massive, I have learnt a lot tonight from the trolls.

I plan to sell the CSL, buy a 318i manual for £1000. Will then rip out the rear seats to save weight, put some fake CSL wheels on it, some Halfords carbon fibre effect trim, remap it, and I'll have a CSL for less than £2k. :supz:

Sounds like an Awesome plan Matt ;) very PH :hahaha: You just need to decide which CSL goes first :whistle: