Track Project M3

titan · 17-08-2010, 12:50 AM

Hi guys

whilst not having a CSL you guys seem to know what you're doing so i thought i'd post up here...

Just bought a 2003 M3 for a cheap trackday project. I say "cheap" because my other track car - an evo - is the other end of the spectrum. I've "been there, done that" with regards to engine mods and now want to do something a little more sensible.

So i was thinking stock M3, strip and lighten, sort the brakes and suspension, then leave the engine alone ! Chuck in a pair of more suitable seats, rear cage and harnesses and job done.

A friend has the alcon kit that Thorney are peddling as the CSL Cup kit (same size front rotors as on my evo, bigger rears though!), I've had one on order for a while, but Thorney are apparently waiting on a bit of hose from alcon...we'll see - I know John posts on here perhaps I can get some action on that ;-)

I would prefer to run 18" to keep tyre costs down, I've heard that running a 9J at the front can help with track, does anyone know what offset front/rear would be correct?

With regards to the suspension, choices choices choices...I've a 3-way competition KW kit on my evo which seems to work well. I looked at Ohlins and Nitron when deciding...I've had a read on here and moton/intrax also get some big thumbs up. Bearing in mind that this is meant to be a cheaper trackday project I don't want to spend the earth, KW Clubsports at a little over 1k, or the Nitron setup at 2.5k ?

Can much weight be shelved? I know the stock electric seats weigh a tonne, but appreciate any advice on where decent savings can be made.

All and any advice most appreciated!

_Nathan_ · 17-08-2010, 01:14 AM

Lots of weight to be saved on a normal M3.

Seats are a big one, will it have a cage or not? If so then GRP doors will save you about 50kg, wouldn't use them without though as no side impact protection. How extreme do you want to go and I'm sure a few of us will be able to give you an idea...

I still love my Intrax, only the pikey 2 way cheap version but has gone from track day to race car with a change of springs and is still better than I am... Now have exactly the same power to weight as a standard CSL for power to weight regs (1420kg + 360bhp v 1260kg and 320bhp) and lapping Snet in the 1:15s, would go 14s with a better driver.

_Nathan_ · 17-08-2010, 01:24 AM

Check out Lawsy's post in for sale section for suspension, no experience myself but lots of people on here use it to great effect.

Dan · 17-08-2010, 09:37 AM

Seeing as I'm looking at these at the moment I will say I thought the Clubsport's were nearer to 2k than they are 1

If you are putting a rear cage in you could ditch the sunroof (if it's got one) and get a carbon roof the same as a genuine CSL?

Get some pics up, sounds like a great project and would be nice to see it from start to finish

titan · 17-08-2010, 10:40 AM

Lets just say that I know a man at KW and having put a bit of business their way for myself and others, the clubsport kit for E46 is a smidge over 1k for me. The V3 under £900.

I looked for quite a while to find the "right car". Knowing a few people on northloop who build/race these cars I was advised to go for:

Facelift - to bypass the whole bottom end recall saga
Manual - didn't want any SMG lockup issues
No Sunroof - massive weight plus reduces helmet clearance
Low Mileage - always preferable

The wife set a budget of 20k for the entire project so the starting car needed to be 13k or lower...tricky finding all of the above for that!

Basically a car which had been cared for. I caught a plane to Aberdeen and drove this home (a mere 570 miles):

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1926827.htm

its in fantastic condition.

My other car: http://www.projectevo.co.uk/gallery2..._2026.jpg.html - this is full on and I don't feel the need to go to the same extremes/costs !

GRP doors are great on paper (the evo has them) but in reality they are a bit weedy, flap around at speed and yes you definitely want a full decent cage.

I'm thinking more about a rear cage and seats on sliders so we can all jump in and out and take turns quickly/easily enough.

so as I say, the plan is

a) strip out the interior and all seats
b) fit a pair of sparco pro2000 seats (got these in the evo, they are a nice all rounder seat)
c) thorney/alcon csl cup brakes (arriving tomorrow apparently)
d) Suspension...haven't decided yet...
e) suitable wheels/tyres, need help here on sizes/offsets, I'll probably run direzza DZ03 tyres, these have proven excellent on our other track cars.
f) bit of a buzz round replacing all bushes with uprated ones, have a look at uprated ARB and general other track prep on the drivetrain..

no immediate plans on doing anything engine wise as everyone knows the best way to reduce lap times is brakes/suspension and a bit of driver training for the hero behind the wheel ;-)

Will be an interesting project and hopefully without the massive pitfalls that the evo had.

cheers all - as I say, right now I'm especially interested in advice on suspension and wheel sizes. Don't want to go above 2.5k on the suspension...

**shimmy** · 17-08-2010, 10:56 AM

After you have stripped the interior the best weight savings if you don't want GRP/CF doors, bumpers or roof is in this order I believe on your M3

1. rims 10-12 kg
2. back box 15kg
3. battery 10-12kg
4. suspension 8kg+

If I were you I would get suspension then rims first as both have massive benefits other than weight. Light stiff rims will improve cornering and acceleration whilst suspension will pay or itself with reduced tyre wear plus other obvious grip benefits

I worked to a budget and choices were balanced between benefit:resale prices

Dan · 17-08-2010, 10:58 AM

The car looks superb mate, I've seen that for sale whilst browsing the classifieds and it really caught my eye!

570 miles is about the same distance for me to Scotland, whereabouts are you? (PM if you prefer

)

**DazBlackCSL** · 17-08-2010, 11:06 AM

Would say if you know Rich at KW then your decision is made really, as he can not only sort you a deal ( save some money for other parts ) but help with set up and advise all through the project

Clubsports are good, need to understand the differing set up , bump and rebound etc to get the best as there not combined in one adjustment like the intrax.

18' seems to be obvious choice for lots of track due to cost of rubber etc, not sure on best sizes as always run 19" on both sets with cups, but would probably go 18 if if go again with some other rims

Good luck with the project

**shimmy** · 17-08-2010, 11:14 AM

Most guys on 18 inch rims for track have TD 9.0J all 4 corners although I have 9,5J Volks all round.

I think Duncan has just got his 4x TD Pro2 18x9J et 30 front and 15 rear which sounds spot on.

As for Direzzas they seem a decent choice but beware MattCSLnut uses them and his car seems to go real slowwwww!

titan · 17-08-2010, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan

The car looks superb mate, I've seen that for sale whilst browsing the classifieds and it really caught my eye!

570 miles is about the same distance for me to Scotland, whereabouts are you? (PM if you prefer

)

I live near rayleigh/southend in essex. Ah the shame ;-)

17-08-2010, 12:50 AM	#1
titan S5 - Full Throttle Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 268 Casino cash: $1363	Track Project M3 Hi guys whilst not having a CSL you guys seem to know what you're doing so i thought i'd post up here... Just bought a 2003 M3 for a cheap trackday project. I say "cheap" because my other track car - an evo - is the other end of the spectrum. I've "been there, done that" with regards to engine mods and now want to do something a little more sensible. So i was thinking stock M3, strip and lighten, sort the brakes and suspension, then leave the engine alone ! Chuck in a pair of more suitable seats, rear cage and harnesses and job done. A friend has the alcon kit that Thorney are peddling as the CSL Cup kit (same size front rotors as on my evo, bigger rears though!), I've had one on order for a while, but Thorney are apparently waiting on a bit of hose from alcon...we'll see - I know John posts on here perhaps I can get some action on that ;-) I would prefer to run 18" to keep tyre costs down, I've heard that running a 9J at the front can help with track, does anyone know what offset front/rear would be correct? With regards to the suspension, choices choices choices...I've a 3-way competition KW kit on my evo which seems to work well. I looked at Ohlins and Nitron when deciding...I've had a read on here and moton/intrax also get some big thumbs up. Bearing in mind that this is meant to be a cheaper trackday project I don't want to spend the earth, KW Clubsports at a little over 1k, or the Nitron setup at 2.5k ? Can much weight be shelved? I know the stock electric seats weigh a tonne, but appreciate any advice on where decent savings can be made. All and any advice most appreciated!

17-08-2010, 01:14 AM	#2
_Nathan_ Driving it like I nicked it Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 2,099 Casino cash: $13060	Lots of weight to be saved on a normal M3. Seats are a big one, will it have a cage or not? If so then GRP doors will save you about 50kg, wouldn't use them without though as no side impact protection. How extreme do you want to go and I'm sure a few of us will be able to give you an idea... I still love my Intrax, only the pikey 2 way cheap version but has gone from track day to race car with a change of springs and is still better than I am... Now have exactly the same power to weight as a standard CSL for power to weight regs (1420kg + 360bhp v 1260kg and 320bhp) and lapping Snet in the 1:15s, would go 14s with a better driver. __________________ Nathan

17-08-2010, 01:24 AM	#3
_Nathan_ Driving it like I nicked it Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 2,099 Casino cash: $13060	Check out Lawsy's post in for sale section for suspension, no experience myself but lots of people on here use it to great effect. __________________ Nathan

17-08-2010, 09:37 AM	#4
Dan Driving it like I nicked it Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,058 Casino cash: $6689	Seeing as I'm looking at these at the moment I will say I thought the Clubsport's were nearer to 2k than they are 1 If you are putting a rear cage in you could ditch the sunroof (if it's got one) and get a carbon roof the same as a genuine CSL? Get some pics up, sounds like a great project and would be nice to see it from start to finish __________________

17-08-2010, 10:56 AM	#6
shimmy CSL Register Uber-poster! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Uk Posts: 14,646 Casino cash: $43909	After you have stripped the interior the best weight savings if you don't want GRP/CF doors, bumpers or roof is in this order I believe on your M3 1. rims 10-12 kg 2. back box 15kg 3. battery 10-12kg 4. suspension 8kg+ If I were you I would get suspension then rims first as both have massive benefits other than weight. Light stiff rims will improve cornering and acceleration whilst suspension will pay or itself with reduced tyre wear plus other obvious grip benefits I worked to a budget and choices were balanced between benefit:resale prices __________________ .

17-08-2010, 10:40 AM	#5
titan S5 - Full Throttle Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 268 Casino cash: $1363	Lets just say that I know a man at KW and having put a bit of business their way for myself and others, the clubsport kit for E46 is a smidge over 1k for me. The V3 under £900. I looked for quite a while to find the "right car". Knowing a few people on northloop who build/race these cars I was advised to go for: Facelift - to bypass the whole bottom end recall saga Manual - didn't want any SMG lockup issues No Sunroof - massive weight plus reduces helmet clearance Low Mileage - always preferable The wife set a budget of 20k for the entire project so the starting car needed to be 13k or lower...tricky finding all of the above for that! Basically a car which had been cared for. I caught a plane to Aberdeen and drove this home (a mere 570 miles): http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/1926827.htm its in fantastic condition. My other car: http://www.projectevo.co.uk/gallery2..._2026.jpg.html - this is full on and I don't feel the need to go to the same extremes/costs ! GRP doors are great on paper (the evo has them) but in reality they are a bit weedy, flap around at speed and yes you definitely want a full decent cage. I'm thinking more about a rear cage and seats on sliders so we can all jump in and out and take turns quickly/easily enough. so as I say, the plan is a) strip out the interior and all seats b) fit a pair of sparco pro2000 seats (got these in the evo, they are a nice all rounder seat) c) thorney/alcon csl cup brakes (arriving tomorrow apparently) d) Suspension...haven't decided yet... e) suitable wheels/tyres, need help here on sizes/offsets, I'll probably run direzza DZ03 tyres, these have proven excellent on our other track cars. f) bit of a buzz round replacing all bushes with uprated ones, have a look at uprated ARB and general other track prep on the drivetrain.. no immediate plans on doing anything engine wise as everyone knows the best way to reduce lap times is brakes/suspension and a bit of driver training for the hero behind the wheel ;-) Will be an interesting project and hopefully without the massive pitfalls that the evo had. cheers all - as I say, right now I'm especially interested in advice on suspension and wheel sizes. Don't want to go above 2.5k on the suspension...

17-08-2010, 10:58 AM	#7
Dan Driving it like I nicked it Join Date: Nov 2009 Posts: 2,058 Casino cash: $6689	The car looks superb mate, I've seen that for sale whilst browsing the classifieds and it really caught my eye! 570 miles is about the same distance for me to Scotland, whereabouts are you? (PM if you prefer ) __________________

17-08-2010, 11:06 AM	#8
DazBlackCSL CSL Register Uber-poster! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Shaboogling Posts: 7,199 Casino cash: $28478	Would say if you know Rich at KW then your decision is made really, as he can not only sort you a deal ( save some money for other parts ) but help with set up and advise all through the project Clubsports are good, need to understand the differing set up , bump and rebound etc to get the best as there not combined in one adjustment like the intrax. 18' seems to be obvious choice for lots of track due to cost of rubber etc, not sure on best sizes as always run 19" on both sets with cups, but would probably go 18 if if go again with some other rims Good luck with the project __________________ CSL Register Lifestyle Coach and Social Secretary

17-08-2010, 11:14 AM	#9
shimmy CSL Register Uber-poster! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Uk Posts: 14,646 Casino cash: $43909	Most guys on 18 inch rims for track have TD 9.0J all 4 corners although I have 9,5J Volks all round. I think Duncan has just got his 4x TD Pro2 18x9J et 30 front and 15 rear which sounds spot on. As for Direzzas they seem a decent choice but beware MattCSLnut uses them and his car seems to go real slowwwww! __________________ .