csl vs gts. Spa track day

[billyboysm3]

Great Video!!!

Love the driver/passenger banter.

Never had the pleasure of driving Spa but would love to do it next year.

In the last 13 months Ive toyed with selling the CSL nearly every week.

Since watching this video and going in Adem's/Yanto's last weekend it really has to stay.

[TonyR]

CSL is an epic car and wish I still owned one, albeit a standard one for road use.

Nothing beats that induction noise!

[shane@mbtech]

Originally Posted by TonyR

A GT3 doesn't - my friend had his 997 Gen II and it destroyed its brakes, and even with replacement Alcons was still crap. He had no end of woes, and in comparison the car was really soft.

The GTS is a good road/track compromise out the box, presumably to make it work at the Ring reasonably. If you intend to use it track only, then it doesn't take much to get it a lot faster.

What is good is I beat the hell out of the car over the two days and went home with no issues. Prior to that the car did 4k miles, 4 heavy trackdays and used 1 set of discs, 2 sets of pads and 1 set of tyres. Not bad going really.

Key thing is every mile is really enjoyable, as it was in my CSL. It isn't a race, and tbh one of the quickest things out there was a MkII golf!!

I was having fun every minute, and that's all that really counts. It is a mega car and lovely to own and drive, as was the CSL.

If you think a CSL was approx £60k, to get to the spec of a GTS you would add cage, proper seats, harnesses, exhaust, brakes, aero, engine work and suspension. Adding components of the same quality as those in the GTS and you are looking at around £25k done - makes it £85k. GTS was £115k, but they are 10 years apart so you can't make a direct comparison. The GTS is still more expensive, but the value of the mods is preserved (you get your money back) which you don't on a modded CSL.

I paid £89k for mine with 1900 miles - basically a new car. It is unlikely to go down much, if at all, with only 8 in the UK. Not quite so silly when you look at it that way, even if the performance was identical.

It's like the GTR tuned vs Nismo debate. Yes, you could build a faster E92 track car for less money, of course you can. So what.

It's nice to get something out the box that is pretty good. Shame BMW didn't do more, but then it leaves me with room to play

I wasn't looking to get into the price vs csl debate Tony, its just you had your racing book excuse book out in your first post, so I was wondering why for the price of the GTS was it as bad as you were making out in the post. Judging by your driving and times on that vid I can now see why you were soo much faster in your GTR

[octainejunkee]

I got my laps down to 2.50's with two people plus luggage etc by the end of the day,
so i'm pretty happy with the car tbh-
a super charger would ruin the noise and power delivery
but a little more power would make it so much better on the straights..

I'll be going to the ring soon- would be up for silverstone on the 6th but i'll be in vegas at the Sema show then driving up to texas for the f1..

I think you did well to snap the gts up for that price as they are hard to find for less than 100k now.- in all honesty i'd probably be a little more cautious if i was driving a car worth so much around spa.

As for the drive home- the car was behaving faultlessly as were my mates supercharged m3 and the 650bhp gtr- so much so that the Belguim Police decided to close part of the e40 and use 8 police cars to escort us to a police station to discuss our "fast and furious" racing lol- 1 thousand Euros and 4hrs later we left to go on our way..
We always thought the Belguim PoPo were cool but apparantly not..

Ill try and get down to the ring this year and will fit in a few brandshatch eve sessions as and when..

Would be good to catch up at another event if you do any others?

cheers Jamie

Originally Posted by TonyR

No worries Think the car will be quicker next time though with exhaust, map, proper geo (it hasn't had one at all) and better tyres (PZero Trofeo I hope).

If I hadn't changed the tyres to the Dunlops, I would have been ALOT slower with the stock Pirelli Corsas. Thing is, your car is a good deal quicker than a stock CSL, so if you compared like for like, the GTS vs CSL out the box, the GTS would be much quicker. Do what you did to yours, and the gap narrows. But, if you added a cage and extinguisher, like the GTS has, then you would fall behind again.

I think ultimately the GTS and E92 is faster than the E46 from its potential, but we are talking a few seconds here - not a massive amount, and one that is easily removed with a couple of mistakes and/or traffic.

What events you planning? I'm definitely at Silverstone with Circuit Days (November 6th) but may do something else in September. Car was a little tired when I got back

I used to track my CSL back in '04, with a cage, 265 cups all round, Intrax, APs, seats, harnesses etc - and it was a similar experience and lap time to the GTS. That car eventually became Gorilla's GTR

[TonyR]

Originally Posted by lawsy

I wasn't looking to get into the price vs csl debate Tony, its just you had your racing book excuse book out in your first post, so I was wondering why for the price of the GTS was it as bad as you were making out in the post. Judging by your driving and times on that vid I can now see why you were soo much faster in your GTR

Here we go...

It wasn't excuses, they are facts. I don't need to explain or prove anything to you and I couldn't care less if you think the CSL is the best things since time began or the GTS is an overpriced Jaffa cake. They are quite different and I'd happily own both.

GTS is for me, the most enjoyable road car I've ever bought to date for circuit use. I am the first to admit I struggle to drive quickly since my eye problems and multiple operations, which is why I sought help from CATDT to get my confidence back, and I am very grateful to Colin as when I saw him first 18 months ago I had become scared to even drive on a normal road.

But go ahead, take the piss. Enjoy.

[TonyR]

Jamie,

As I said, you were driving very well. I wouldn't charge it - if you really want more, go down the cams and different final drive route instead.

I had dinner with my mate who lives in Spa on the Tuesday night (Greg from the MLR who organises their SPA days), and he warned us not to go over 150kph or it was bye-bye car! The Police are much more serious now, and the French are worse. Traffic was pretty average when we went back following morning, so could barely get above 80mph anyway!

Still, thoroughly enjoyed it. There are a few Silverstone days in October. Not sure I'll have time to sort the car out before then, bit of a busy time.

I'll put my SmartyCam on next time so we can do it both ways (ooh err).

If I'm still slower than you, I'll stick someone who can peddle properly in

[Graham]

Originally Posted by octainejunkee

My pal was filming at the bus stop chicane on the red flag lap and said alot of spectators gave us a cheer when my mates rwd r35gtr, me and your gts came through there sideways...

I need to see this video

Good lap. My mates were there in a white polo, red 106 & red vxr. I couldn't make it due to no time off from work :-(

[TonyR]

Originally Posted by Graham

I need to see this video

Good lap. My mates were there in a white polo, red 106 & red vxr. I couldn't make it due to no time off from work :-(

Me too!

Saw the red VXR, but never saw a polo or 106!

[3wheels3]

Hi Tony , Wow it's a long time ago now since you were helping me get my csl raspberry friendly with harness/buckets! One thing, when getting out after session over egg any disability to pi$$ of other drivers lolz

Lap times, lap times, lap times...there's more things in life than that! It's about enjoying the whole day, havin' a good laugh with trackday pals, enjoying the car, places like Spa etc etc

It's certainly a lot easier throwing ol' snotters round track though

Love the csl, love the gts, love Spa...great vid

[GregorJP]

As for the drive home- the car was behaving faultlessly as were my mates supercharged m3 and the 650bhp gtr- so much so that the Belguim Police decided to close part of the e40 and use 8 police cars to escort us to a police station to discuss our "fast and furious" racing lol- 1 thousand Euros and 4hrs later we left to go on our way..
We always thought the Belguim PoPo were cool but apparantly not..


I like this story. Reminds me of a trip back from the Ring when we got flashed by an unmarked Peugeot on the e40 after we had closed on him at a not inconsiderable speed. The car contained the angriest Belgian policeman I have ever seen, waving his warrant card and gesturing that we should pull over. He kept trying to block us going past him, but we took the view (given that he was most likely off duty) that he was going to struggle to call for back up. So we nipped past and nailed it.

My mate got fined well over €1k in his Lambo for similar F&F behaviour.