Oil cooler diverter valve - Page 2

The Gorilla · 16-01-2014, 10:33 AM

Hi.

Quote - '' The way it works on the S54 engine is that it doesn't release all the oil through the cooler when it gets hot, so this is why you get excessive oil temps on track, as the oil cooler isn't being fully utilised.

I am not sure I folllow any of this any more.

The Oil stat in the S54 Oil filtre housing
is controlled via a spring return stat that when closed
pushes the oil across the to the other side
where the Oil cooler return is, which in turn feeds
the distribution block for the oil galleys.

When the stat is open the oil flows into the
oil cooler and back to the distribution block.

When the Oil Stat opens oil pressure does not
alter or drop theerfore the flow path with the
Stat open will take the majority of flow and volume
of oil as opposed the oil flow path when the
stat is shut.

Oil flow is similar to water flow in that it will
always flow in the direction of the least line
of rtesistance, which with the stat open is
straigh on, not acreoss the 'bridge' as when
the stat is closed.

[Oil pressure is measured via resistance, flow and
oil viscosity]

Hence my point Oil temp is oil temp, so in order
to achieve a greater oil flow you require a larger
id bore and or a greater pressure, otherwise the
volume of oil going thru the Cooler with the stat
open is pretty much the same as the amount of oil
going diretly to the distribution block with the
stat closed.

You also mention Vanos which is the second from last port of
call on the oil feed supply chain.

If you have the Oil stat removed and in effect
a blanking sleeve fitted, on start up not only
is the oil much cooler for a longer period,
not particuliar good, but your having to
pressure up the oil cooler and oil cooler lines before
oil is fed up to the Vanos, and then Cams which is not the
case with the Oil Stat fitted.

You want the oil to the Vanos and Cams as quick
as possible on start up, not start introdcuing
delays.

There is no free lunch, and if you think that
50 or 60.00 pounds is going to drop oil temps
on a S54 at being ragged on Track then fit them
in, I'ii just stick with my oil to water heat
exchanger which works fine with the Oil stst
still in place.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

adem.csl · 16-01-2014, 01:55 PM

Hi,the description i wrote was a basic 'this is what it does'i included the link to CA which goes into detail of what the valve does.
I see your point Gorilla but i also see mikes too!
It does increase the amount of oil flow through the cooler and this diverter is prob not a good idea on a road day to day driving car!however!!
If the oil temp raises to 125 degrees+ on track before the stat opens the surely if there is no stat present the oil cant reach that temp in the first place???it will stay at 95 degrees.track use!!m going to try one and record the info and let you know how it stands!

They have put time and money into research so im sure it must work(for some engines)!!

shane@mbtech · 16-01-2014, 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Gorilla

Hi,

Quote- ''...What they do is remove the thermostatic valve in the oil filter housing allowing the oil to circulate round the cooler at a cooler temperature''

Not following your logic here at all.

Oil temp is oil temp, so when the oil reaches
95 degrees the oil stat opens, when the oil
is cooler than 95 degrees it closes.

If you remove your Oil stat then it takes longer
for the engine oil to warm up from cold, and most engine
damage occurs with cold oil not hot.

On track your oil is up to temp, or higher, so the
Oil Stat is always open so I am not
sure how the Oil stat closes for Track use if higher
oil temp is the problem.

Point being is that if your engine oil temp
is lower than 95 degrees and the Oil stat is
closed then you can not have a high oil temp
issue.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

This contradicts your reasoning behind the motorsport water stat though?

**Mike R** · 16-01-2014, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawsy

This contradicts your reasoning behind the motorsport water stat though?

That was exactly what I was going to say, but for a different reason LOL.

If you're using the same feed as the OE item for your water cooled Mocal item, which as stated limits the amount of oil it allows to flow past it, then surely your cooling method will be no better than the OE air to air item, as the issue isn't actually airflow through the oil cooler, but the amount of oil it actually allows to pass through the oil cooler?

I don't understand how your cooling method is an improvement?

The Gorilla · 16-01-2014, 02:43 PM

Hi Lawsy,

Not sure how.

55 degree water stat is so that the
water path / cycle opens and stays open and so the thermosat [std one]
is unable to fluctutate, once open it stays open to
ensure that no hot spots in the cross flow of the
water jacket of the head might or could occur.
[split seals/HG failure/ cracked head and so on]
and that water temp is more even due to the fact
that the lower rated water stat is more constant
for all round flow and temp.

With the Oil temps the removal of the Oil stat
is almost the opposite where on long straights
the oil temp as its always passing thru the oil
cooler and is ambinet air temp cooled could
drop down to temps where the oil is at it
weakest in protecting internal engine components.

Back on the twisties and its rising again, and so on.

Thus you create surges in oil temps which
is not good as their is no stat to close when
temps start falling below 90 deg ti try and
hold the temps more even.

F430 458 New M5 the list goes on all are running
oil to water heat exchangers, many no longer
run a std air cooled Oil Cooler, as they aim to try and
keep oil and water temps as constant and even as
possible.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

The Gorilla · 16-01-2014, 03:18 PM

Hi,

Quote - '' If you're using the same feed as the OE item for your water cooled Mocal item, which as stated limits the amount of oil it allows to flow past it, then surely your cooling method will be no better than the OE air to air item, as the issue isn't actually airflow through the oil cooler, but the amount of oil it actually allows to pass through the oil cooler?

Is this some form of new English being used as a trial basis
or is this for real ?

You should stop making those assumptions MikeR
as I thought we had cleared that up many moons ago.

Do you know how a laminova Oil to water heat exchanger
works as reading the above statement it does not
appear so, no more than you know how my system is
fitted and works ?

So you do not have to make any further assumptions
Mike here is a link to a picture.

http://www.cslregister.com/forum/sho...?t=2817&page=4

Now before the Oil stat is even open my Oil to water Heat
exchanger is working away as its feed via the top of the oil filter and
goes back to the Oil fitlre block on the return side
where the std oil cooler returns to.

I run JIc 10 lines for flow and return to the Laminova not Mocal
heat exchanger.

This is always full of oil so on start up there is
no pressuring required and as the engine has a
55 deg water stat fitted the water rad operates quicker and
thus assists in heating up the engine oil quicker as the
water from the rad return is what cools the Laminova
as it passes thru it..

So far so good.

Then on Track when my oil hits 95 deg Guess what the Oil
stat opens ,you know the thing that you keep wanting to remove,
and I now have a Oil to Water heat exchanger working
to try and keep temps even, and as the oil temp
has moved up above 95 deg my oil stat opens, yes that
thing you want to bin, and the std Air to Oil cooler then
also comes into play at the same time'' as its also installed on JIc 10
lines and fitted via a 'Y' with non return valve into the
=oil return feed, and guess what that little bit
of free ambient air just nudges the temps back down
below 95, the oil stat shuts, but only if you still have one,
and the oil and water temps then behave themselves again
all being kept as constant as possible by the oil to water heat exchanger
until the next little rise in oil temp, mostly on the parts
where I get all carried away trying to be Hans Stuck.

As I said there is no free lunch.

So please no more Assumptions or Trial English.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

**Mike R** · 16-01-2014, 03:44 PM

Hi Danny,
Of course I know how one works, I had one on my Sierra over 15 years ago LOL,

But as you hadn't provided any explanation or information to the contrary, it was my belief that you had substituted the OE air to air item with the Laminova item, which just didn't make sense (for the reasons I gave above).

Now I can see that you have added the Laminova to supplement the OE air to air item, that does make a little more sense. However, the proof is in the pudding, as reading between the lines, this is how you are HOPING it will work, as it seems you haven't proved that yet

.

I say that, as the one on my Sierra, didn't perform as well as I had hoped and I was still seeing 125°C oil temps on track in 30°C ambients.....

Anyway, surely the easy solution for the Oil cooler bypass valve is to just run a thermostat before the cooler, so that it doesn't allow the oil into this until it has reached the required temperature - job jobbed....

karbonkid · 16-01-2014, 07:41 PM

I've run a Motorsport stat for a while now. Recommend for a track car only.

Personally I would probably be more concerned about power steering temps and fit an additional cooler to help keep temps down there.

**alexk** · 16-01-2014, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mike R

Hi Danny,
The way it works on the S54 engine is that it doesn't release all the oil through the cooler when it gets hot, so this is why you get excessive oil temps on track, as the oil cooler isn't being fully utilised.

Did they do an oil flow measurement with and without the thermostat ?
I am just curious why they are saying the thermostat is restricting the flow.

The Gorilla · 16-01-2014, 09:35 PM

Hi,

Quote- '' However, the proof is in the pudding, as reading between the lines, this is how you are HOPING it will work, as it seems you haven't proved that yet.

See there you go again with those Assumptions.

The Picture in the Link was circa 2009 and
its now 2014, but whatever MikeR.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

16-01-2014, 01:55 PM	#12
adem.csl S5, Sport On, DSC M-track Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: north london Posts: 1,012 Casino cash: $7218	Hi,the description i wrote was a basic 'this is what it does'i included the link to CA which goes into detail of what the valve does. I see your point Gorilla but i also see mikes too! It does increase the amount of oil flow through the cooler and this diverter is prob not a good idea on a road day to day driving car!however!! If the oil temp raises to 125 degrees+ on track before the stat opens the surely if there is no stat present the oil cant reach that temp in the first place???it will stay at 95 degrees.track use!!m going to try one and record the info and let you know how it stands! They have put time and money into research so im sure it must work(for some engines)!! __________________ Bmw in the blood!!

16-01-2014, 03:18 PM	#16
The Gorilla S5, Sport Off, DSC M-track Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 740 Casino cash: $14401	Hi, Quote - '' If you're using the same feed as the OE item for your water cooled Mocal item, which as stated limits the amount of oil it allows to flow past it, then surely your cooling method will be no better than the OE air to air item, as the issue isn't actually airflow through the oil cooler, but the amount of oil it actually allows to pass through the oil cooler? Is this some form of new English being used as a trial basis or is this for real ? You should stop making those assumptions MikeR as I thought we had cleared that up many moons ago. Do you know how a laminova Oil to water heat exchanger works as reading the above statement it does not appear so, no more than you know how my system is fitted and works ? So you do not have to make any further assumptions Mike here is a link to a picture. http://www.cslregister.com/forum/sho...?t=2817&page=4 Now before the Oil stat is even open my Oil to water Heat exchanger is working away as its feed via the top of the oil filter and goes back to the Oil fitlre block on the return side where the std oil cooler returns to. I run JIc 10 lines for flow and return to the Laminova not Mocal heat exchanger. This is always full of oil so on start up there is no pressuring required and as the engine has a 55 deg water stat fitted the water rad operates quicker and thus assists in heating up the engine oil quicker as the water from the rad return is what cools the Laminova as it passes thru it.. So far so good. Then on Track when my oil hits 95 deg Guess what the Oil stat opens ,you know the thing that you keep wanting to remove, and I now have a Oil to Water heat exchanger working to try and keep temps even, and as the oil temp has moved up above 95 deg my oil stat opens, yes that thing you want to bin, and the std Air to Oil cooler then also comes into play at the same time'' as its also installed on JIc 10 lines and fitted via a 'Y' with non return valve into the =oil return feed, and guess what that little bit of free ambient air just nudges the temps back down below 95, the oil stat shuts, but only if you still have one, and the oil and water temps then behave themselves again all being kept as constant as possible by the oil to water heat exchanger until the next little rise in oil temp, mostly on the parts where I get all carried away trying to be Hans Stuck. As I said there is no free lunch. So please no more Assumptions or Trial English. Regards, The Gorilla. Last edited by The Gorilla; 16-01-2014 at 03:31 PM. Reason: Add Link

16-01-2014, 03:44 PM	#17
Mike R S6, Sport On, Traction Off Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Norwich Posts: 1,585 Casino cash: $17591	Hi Danny, Of course I know how one works, I had one on my Sierra over 15 years ago LOL, But as you hadn't provided any explanation or information to the contrary, it was my belief that you had substituted the OE air to air item with the Laminova item, which just didn't make sense (for the reasons I gave above). Now I can see that you have added the Laminova to supplement the OE air to air item, that does make a little more sense. However, the proof is in the pudding, as reading between the lines, this is how you are HOPING it will work, as it seems you haven't proved that yet . I say that, as the one on my Sierra, didn't perform as well as I had hoped and I was still seeing 125°C oil temps on track in 30°C ambients..... Anyway, surely the easy solution for the Oil cooler bypass valve is to just run a thermostat before the cooler, so that it doesn't allow the oil into this until it has reached the required temperature - job jobbed.... __________________ Mike R Sarcasm is just a free service I provide. Nordschleife, there's only two barriers to worry about - the ones on the left and the ones on the right . CSL number 044 Last edited by Mike R; 16-01-2014 at 04:15 PM.

16-01-2014, 07:41 PM	#18
karbonkid S6, Sport On, Traction Off Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Sussex Posts: 1,912 Casino cash: $10231	I've run a Motorsport stat for a while now. Recommend for a track car only. Personally I would probably be more concerned about power steering temps and fit an additional cooler to help keep temps down there. __________________

16-01-2014, 10:33 AM	#11
The Gorilla S5, Sport Off, DSC M-track Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 740 Casino cash: $14401	Hi. Quote - '' The way it works on the S54 engine is that it doesn't release all the oil through the cooler when it gets hot, so this is why you get excessive oil temps on track, as the oil cooler isn't being fully utilised. I am not sure I folllow any of this any more. The Oil stat in the S54 Oil filtre housing is controlled via a spring return stat that when closed pushes the oil across the to the other side where the Oil cooler return is, which in turn feeds the distribution block for the oil galleys. When the stat is open the oil flows into the oil cooler and back to the distribution block. When the Oil Stat opens oil pressure does not alter or drop theerfore the flow path with the Stat open will take the majority of flow and volume of oil as opposed the oil flow path when the stat is shut. Oil flow is similar to water flow in that it will always flow in the direction of the least line of rtesistance, which with the stat open is straigh on, not acreoss the 'bridge' as when the stat is closed. [Oil pressure is measured via resistance, flow and oil viscosity] Hence my point Oil temp is oil temp, so in order to achieve a greater oil flow you require a larger id bore and or a greater pressure, otherwise the volume of oil going thru the Cooler with the stat open is pretty much the same as the amount of oil going diretly to the distribution block with the stat closed. You also mention Vanos which is the second from last port of call on the oil feed supply chain. If you have the Oil stat removed and in effect a blanking sleeve fitted, on start up not only is the oil much cooler for a longer period, not particuliar good, but your having to pressure up the oil cooler and oil cooler lines before oil is fed up to the Vanos, and then Cams which is not the case with the Oil Stat fitted. You want the oil to the Vanos and Cams as quick as possible on start up, not start introdcuing delays. There is no free lunch, and if you think that 50 or 60.00 pounds is going to drop oil temps on a S54 at being ragged on Track then fit them in, I'ii just stick with my oil to water heat exchanger which works fine with the Oil stst still in place. Regards, The Gorilla.

16-01-2014, 02:43 PM	#15
The Gorilla S5, Sport Off, DSC M-track Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 740 Casino cash: $14401	Hi Lawsy, Not sure how. 55 degree water stat is so that the water path / cycle opens and stays open and so the thermosat [std one] is unable to fluctutate, once open it stays open to ensure that no hot spots in the cross flow of the water jacket of the head might or could occur. [split seals/HG failure/ cracked head and so on] and that water temp is more even due to the fact that the lower rated water stat is more constant for all round flow and temp. With the Oil temps the removal of the Oil stat is almost the opposite where on long straights the oil temp as its always passing thru the oil cooler and is ambinet air temp cooled could drop down to temps where the oil is at it weakest in protecting internal engine components. Back on the twisties and its rising again, and so on. Thus you create surges in oil temps which is not good as their is no stat to close when temps start falling below 90 deg ti try and hold the temps more even. F430 458 New M5 the list goes on all are running oil to water heat exchangers, many no longer run a std air cooled Oil Cooler, as they aim to try and keep oil and water temps as constant and even as possible. Regards, The Gorilla.

16-01-2014, 09:35 PM	#20
The Gorilla S5, Sport Off, DSC M-track Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 740 Casino cash: $14401	Hi, Quote- '' However, the proof is in the pudding, as reading between the lines, this is how you are HOPING it will work, as it seems you haven't proved that yet. See there you go again with those Assumptions. The Picture in the Link was circa 2009 and its now 2014, but whatever MikeR. Regards, The Gorilla.