what are the best brakes to upgrade to?

[shane@mbtech]

Originally Posted by M5 Powered

Yes, agree with Titan.

Alcon are VERY protective over their few distributors. I actually know someone at the factory and there was absolutely no chance of a mates rates set!

Titan, how much do the carbotech pads work out for £££? for a set.


Jonathan

Approximate £200 notes maybe £230 +vat

I run them and I find them personally better than the pagid rs
Just my view

[Foamy]

Originally Posted by NZ_M3

This is incorrect if you do the math.

The Alcon is the only aftermarket brake kit out there that I know of that more or less retains the CSL brake bias out of the box. I did the math and it adds up.

See below.




Standard setup with an equivalent brake pad compound as the front Alcons. I am running pagid rs29 on the front alcons and performance friction pfc01 and the brake balance is "perfect" (quote from a veteran champion professional racing driver and acredited bmw driver training instructor who took my car for a test run around a new track yesterday and provided me with some setup feedback)


If you want me to get really technical I can ... but as a reference.

The stock E46 M3 has a front to rear brake bias ratio of 1.98 (i.e. front heavy)
The standard CSL has a front to rear brake bias ratio of 1.73 (i.e. shifted slightly to the rear compared to the stock M3)
The standard Alcon kit in both front and rear configuration has a front to rear brake bias ratio of 1.78 (i.e very close to the stock CSL setup)
Running just the front Alcon kit and retaining the stock CSL rear setup gives a front to rear brake bias ratio of 1.82 (so in between the stock M3 and CSL setup - which I've found to be much much better).

As for those going with the AP racing kit - those kit are actually WAY MORE rear biased compared to all the other kits out there. For e.g. the 5570 kit has a front to rear brake bias ratio of 1.61 (very rearward biased).

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the CSL bias 2.17 ie more front biased than the regular M3?

[glendog74]

Originally Posted by Foamy

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the CSL bias 2.17 ie more front biased than the regular M3?

Oh no - now you've done it!

[M3Laith]

Get AP racing! They are bullet proof!

Mine's had 2 heavy-on-brakes trackdays, and 2 trips to the Alps and they're still happy bunnies. I've only had them for 6 months, and bought them second hand from a CSL owner that only tracked them.

[Foamy]

Originally Posted by M3Laith

Get AP racing! They are bullet proof!

Mine's had 2 heavy-on-brakes trackdays, and 2 trips to the Alps and they're still happy bunnies. I've only had them for 6 months, and bought them second hand from a CSL owner that only tracked them.

Given the choice I will be going for the Brembo Gran Turismo kit which has fully floating discs and alloy bells all round.

I don't like the bolted front discs and standard rear discs on the AP kit which makes them seem the low budget option, and I don't fancy having the heavy Alcon hats on the rear.

Brembo's tick all the boxes for me

[_Nathan_]

Good shout, you need fully floating disks and alloy bells for the odd track day, pretty sure the AP kit wouldn't cope.

[alexk]

Originally Posted by _Nathan_

Good shout, you need fully floating disks and alloy bells for the odd track day, pretty sure the AP kit wouldn't cope.

I have the same experience Nathan
APs are good only for supermarket use

[Foamy]

Originally Posted by _Nathan_

Good shout, you need fully floating disks and alloy bells for the odd track day, pretty sure the AP kit wouldn't cope.

Sorry, I thought the question referred to what are the best brakes, not what's the best value.

I agree that Brembo are a very expensive option, but it was just an opinion on what I consider to be the best in all area's

[_Nathan_]

If price has nothing to do with it then you could do much better, carbon ceramic are miles lighter.

Truth is that any AP, Alcon, Brembo etc etc kit will be fine for track days and road use so why spend more than you need to unless you just want the bling. Personally I don't like the amount of holes Brembo seem to stick all over their disks, great way to reduce the friction surface area.

[Foamy]

Originally Posted by _Nathan_

If price has nothing to do with it then you could do much better, carbon ceramic are miles lighter.

Truth is that any AP, Alcon, Brembo etc etc kit will be fine for track days and road use so why spend more than you need to unless you just want the bling. Personally I don't like the amount of holes Brembo seem to stick all over their disks, great way to reduce the friction surface area.

You have the choice of drilled or slotted with Brembo.

Granted, the AP and Alcon kits are excellent brakes. I was simply pointing out their weaknesses. Just being honest.