Seeking CSL knowledge. - Page 8

The Gorilla · 03-04-2011, 12:06 PM

Hi,

Quote-

from the s54 ...

of course many so called tuners may claim hp gains on the dyno ... but on the road you would probably go even slower than stock !!!

we have checked nearly ALL available n/a methods from nearly ALL "tuners" ...

lately we have even checked a heavily modified s54 with higher compression , pistons , numerous Schrick camshafts (from 288 up to 304) , Schrick retainers , strengthened valve spinrgs , csl airbox etc ...

the results is that even that will go head to head with mine which is just an "alpha-n" with an MK airbox and 1460 kg ...

as for csl's in my current "specs" I must say that I am quite faster ... on a straight line that is !!!

the only modification that I would suggest for a "regular" M3 after all that testing for the last 3 years is

shedding weight , a shorter final diff and a lightweight flywheel ... the "alpha-n" conversion and a higher rev limiter is of course not a bad idea as well

Not sure I follow what your saying here.

You posted your concerns that your ECU was not making
fuel adaptions / trimming which would be required in
order to make real gains with the S54 Vanos optimised,
as in the CSL, and now your saying that even highly
tuned cars are not as fast as yours ?

While I believe that tunning the S54 to some of the alleged
numbers is cloud cuckoo land, its on par with saying that a
N type Map with a Carbon Airbox and nothing else produces
a S54 that is better than a CSL ?

Correct me if I am wrong, but that is what you are saying.

Where did BMW go so wrong, I mean all they had to do
to go racing themselves was take a stock S54, fit an
MK Carbon Airbox, a bastardised N Type Map, leave the stock
cams in there, not even optimise the Vanos, and hey presto they
have a winner !!

This is just pure Monkey business to a primate.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

Rutkowski · 03-04-2011, 02:20 PM

Losing some weight is always a winner and this includes the driver.

I am begining to think that Carbon Airbox and 100cell cats are the only things worth doing to S54... anymore and it is a big £££ for a few BHP...

To make a better use of what you already have is to upgrade suspension and brakes... and Drexler LSD?

The Gorilla · 03-04-2011, 03:36 PM

Hi,

I have always maintained on many posts
that to get much above 360 BHP on a S54
is really big money for maybe 20/30 BHP
if your really lucky.

People seem to forget that some of
these Race engine numbers are not
only 50k plus in parts, but they are around
1500/2000 Km in life.

Many stock S54's do not even make
320 BHP from the factory, and CSL's
are more like 330-340 than its claimed 360.

To get an alleged 360 BHP on standard Cam profile
with a better volume intake and N type map
is not living in the real world.

A N type map and a carbon box is not 40bhp on
a stock S54, well only if your selling them.

Dyno figures have so many variables that
there almost irrelevent.

4.1 Diff suits the engine rev band/ Gearbox ratios
a little better, but does not really make the car a lot quicker.

There's a Drexler diff in my CSL, while its very good for Track
its not really suited to everyday driving.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

**shimmy** · 03-04-2011, 05:43 PM

Power pulleys

Nuff said!

Rutkowski · 03-04-2011, 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Gorilla

Hi,

I have always maintained on many posts
that to get much above 360 BHP on a S54
is really big money for maybe 20/30 BHP
if your really lucky.

People seem to forget that some of
these Race engine numbers are not
only 50k plus in parts, but they are around
1500/2000 Km in life.

Many stock S54's do not even make
320 BHP from the factory, and CSL's
are more like 330-340 than its claimed 360.

To get an alleged 360 BHP on standard Cam profile
with a better volume intake and N type map
is not living in the real world.

A N type map and a carbon box is not 40bhp on
a stock S54, well only if your selling them.

Dyno figures have so many variables that
there almost irrelevent.

4.1 Diff suits the engine rev band/ Gearbox ratios
a little better, but does not really make the car a lot quicker.

There's a Drexler diff in my CSL, while its very good for Track
its not really suited to everyday driving.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

My M3 made close to 340bhp proven with well over 100 dyno tests and over a course of 3 years. I added carbon airbox and a remap from Evolve. I believe the 360bhp power figure.

Another good power improver would be the 'Okada' stuff and power pulleys perhaps?

**shimmy** · 03-04-2011, 06:49 PM

100

You are a mentalist

Rutkowski · 03-04-2011, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shimmy

100

You are a mentalist

yes.

**glendog74** · 03-04-2011, 07:32 PM

I believe anything i am told...

EVANGELOS · 05-04-2011, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Gorilla

Hi,

Not sure I follow what your saying here.

You posted your concerns that your ECU was not making
fuel adaptions / trimming which would be required in
order to make real gains with the S54 Vanos optimised,
as in the CSL, and now your saying that even highly
tuned cars are not as fast as yours ? ...

As far as the hp gains on the "regular" S54

the no fuel trimming after the mafless (alpha-n) reprog and the airbox is just something that some aftermarket programmers seem to be doing so as I have explained in that post

http://www.cslregister.com/forum/sho...0&postcount=11

Quote:

the main problem with "regular" M3's and maff-less proframming is that the dme takes into account on the fuel trimming adaption routine both the 02 sensors AND the maf ... so when u take out the maf it is probable that there is going to be a problem if u allow the dme to adapt ...

so they just bypass the fuel trimming ...

not the best of ideas but still u get a steady performance as long as the injectors , fuel pump etc are in perfect working condition

now on the other subject

I do not say that my car is faster than highly tuned cars

I am saying that THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A HIGHLY TUNED S54

The M3 can go faster but the S54 can produce at the most 370 hp on the csl and a few LESS on the M3

Now here is a video of my car vs a csl (alexk knows the owner) ... at that time my car WAS NOT lightened and had NO airbox or alpha-n reprog but I had installed a 3.91 diff , a lightweight flywheel and a full SS exhaust.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ9mINH4zhY&feature

after the installement of the airbox and the alpha-n I gained a couple of a car lengths maybe more ... but mainly the engine is more consistence where as before there were various "ups and downs"

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Gorilla

...While I believe that tunning the S54 to some of the alleged
numbers is cloud cuckoo land, its on par with saying that a
N type Map with a Carbon Airbox and nothing else produces
a S54 that is better than a CSL ?

Correct me if I am wrong, but that is what you are saying.

Where did BMW go so wrong, I mean all they had to do
to go racing themselves was take a stock S54, fit an
MK Carbon Airbox, a bastardised N Type Map, leave the stock
cams in there, not even optimise the Vanos, and hey presto they
have a winner !!

This is just pure Monkey business to a primate.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

Let me say it again ...

1) I do not claim any hp more than 360

2) What I "claim" as you say is backed by "racing" against other cars ON THE ROAD ... not by comparing hp dyno sheets on the internet

3)The main reasons that my car performs are

It Weighs aprox 1460 kg (no passanger) where as normal M3's are aprox 1570 (regardless that bmw claims that M3's weigh 1570 with 75kg passenger)

It actually produces 350-360 hp (close to a csl) where as normal M3's produce less than 330 at the best ... furthermore the dme is programmed to run up to 8400 rpm

It has a shorter rear diff 3.91 and with the csl wheels and tyre size the final drive is close to 4.00 in comparison to the 3.62 of the normal M3

It has a lightweight flywheel which as you know makes a big difference especially on the low gears due to the smaller EQUIVALENT weight

and some other smaller details

Νow the result is that the car can accelerate !!!

Some TRUE examples ...

my car vs a AA sta1.5 M3 E46 ... the s/c is of course EXTREMELY powerful ... It belongs to a close friend (alexk knows him as well) ... DUE TO EXTENSIVE wheel spinning as a result of the extreme power ... I am faster from a stand still (or from 30kph) up to 200 kph ... of course if we race from a higher gear (where the s/c does not spin) I am humiliated

my car vs 335 stage1 (380hp) ... (again alexk knows him) ... my M3 is faster all the way

etc etc ...

On the other hand we have many examples of "so called tuned" M3's that INSTEAD of weigh shedding and revving concentrate on POWER and the end result is sadly DISAPPOINTING ...

I really cannot understand how people believe that you can produce 390-400 etc hp from a 3.246cc n/a engine WITHOUT race components (like on the P54)

So NO the BMW has not failed ... all I claim is that a light normal M3 with a couple of correct modifications ca go fast on a straight line ...

The Gorilla · 05-04-2011, 03:47 PM

Hi,

Evangelos- but you did say-

''as for csl's in my current "specs" I must say that I am quite faster ... on a straight line that is !!!

So your view of tuning the S54 although very similar to what I
have always maintained, you are saying that your lightened
car even though still heavier than a std CSL, and with less power than
a ''good' CSL engine, some have made a tad above 360, is quicker.

As for the video of your car, if you watch very carefully you can
just see Stevie Wonder getting out of the other car's drivers seat.

Still a load of old Moneky business.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

03-04-2011, 02:20 PM	#72
Rutkowski S5 - Full Throttle Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Poland/London Posts: 464 Casino cash: $4132	Losing some weight is always a winner and this includes the driver. I am begining to think that Carbon Airbox and 100cell cats are the only things worth doing to S54... anymore and it is a big £££ for a few BHP... To make a better use of what you already have is to upgrade suspension and brakes... and Drexler LSD? Last edited by Rutkowski; 03-04-2011 at 02:23 PM.

03-04-2011, 05:43 PM	#74
shimmy CSL Register Uber-poster! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Uk Posts: 14,646 Casino cash: $43909	Power pulleys Nuff said! __________________ .

03-04-2011, 06:49 PM	#76
shimmy CSL Register Uber-poster! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Uk Posts: 14,646 Casino cash: $43909	100 You are a mentalist __________________ .

03-04-2011, 07:32 PM	#78
glendog74 CSL Register Uber-poster! Tetris Champion! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Cornwall Posts: 8,861 Casino cash: $32299	I believe anything i am told... __________________ Cha'mone Mother F**ker!

03-04-2011, 12:06 PM	#71
The Gorilla S5, Sport Off, DSC M-track Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 740 Casino cash: $14401	Hi, Quote- from the s54 ... of course many so called tuners may claim hp gains on the dyno ... but on the road you would probably go even slower than stock !!! we have checked nearly ALL available n/a methods from nearly ALL "tuners" ... lately we have even checked a heavily modified s54 with higher compression , pistons , numerous Schrick camshafts (from 288 up to 304) , Schrick retainers , strengthened valve spinrgs , csl airbox etc ... the results is that even that will go head to head with mine which is just an "alpha-n" with an MK airbox and 1460 kg ... as for csl's in my current "specs" I must say that I am quite faster ... on a straight line that is !!! the only modification that I would suggest for a "regular" M3 after all that testing for the last 3 years is shedding weight , a shorter final diff and a lightweight flywheel ... the "alpha-n" conversion and a higher rev limiter is of course not a bad idea as well Not sure I follow what your saying here. You posted your concerns that your ECU was not making fuel adaptions / trimming which would be required in order to make real gains with the S54 Vanos optimised, as in the CSL, and now your saying that even highly tuned cars are not as fast as yours ? While I believe that tunning the S54 to some of the alleged numbers is cloud cuckoo land, its on par with saying that a N type Map with a Carbon Airbox and nothing else produces a S54 that is better than a CSL ? Correct me if I am wrong, but that is what you are saying. Where did BMW go so wrong, I mean all they had to do to go racing themselves was take a stock S54, fit an MK Carbon Airbox, a bastardised N Type Map, leave the stock cams in there, not even optimise the Vanos, and hey presto they have a winner !! This is just pure Monkey business to a primate. Regards, The Gorilla.

03-04-2011, 03:36 PM	#73
The Gorilla S5, Sport Off, DSC M-track Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 740 Casino cash: $14401	Hi, I have always maintained on many posts that to get much above 360 BHP on a S54 is really big money for maybe 20/30 BHP if your really lucky. People seem to forget that some of these Race engine numbers are not only 50k plus in parts, but they are around 1500/2000 Km in life. Many stock S54's do not even make 320 BHP from the factory, and CSL's are more like 330-340 than its claimed 360. To get an alleged 360 BHP on standard Cam profile with a better volume intake and N type map is not living in the real world. A N type map and a carbon box is not 40bhp on a stock S54, well only if your selling them. Dyno figures have so many variables that there almost irrelevent. 4.1 Diff suits the engine rev band/ Gearbox ratios a little better, but does not really make the car a lot quicker. There's a Drexler diff in my CSL, while its very good for Track its not really suited to everyday driving. Regards, The Gorilla.

05-04-2011, 03:47 PM	#80
The Gorilla S5, Sport Off, DSC M-track Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 740 Casino cash: $14401	Hi, Evangelos- but you did say- ''as for csl's in my current "specs" I must say that I am quite faster ... on a straight line that is !!! So your view of tuning the S54 although very similar to what I have always maintained, you are saying that your lightened car even though still heavier than a std CSL, and with less power than a ''good' CSL engine, some have made a tad above 360, is quicker. As for the video of your car, if you watch very carefully you can just see Stevie Wonder getting out of the other car's drivers seat. Still a load of old Moneky business. Regards, The Gorilla.