Remaps- are they worthwile? - Page 6

**cantfind1** · 10-07-2010, 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scrubberamit

what are they like at corner weighting...

Don's start this again! haha

**glendog74** · 10-07-2010, 05:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cantfind1

Yeah if you want! But there is better!

Explain...!

**cantfind1** · 10-07-2010, 06:05 PM

PM'ed Mate.

PS always wanted to say I quite like the red wheels! but not in a gay way!

**glendog74** · 10-07-2010, 10:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cantfind1

PM'ed Mate.

PS always wanted to say I quite like the red wheels! but not in a gay way!

LoL - cheers mate - PM sent back

Dan · 10-07-2010, 10:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cantfind1

Putting your car on a rolling road does not make sure everything is running spot on!

Also rolling road dyno figures are not accurate. If you want to see the increase in power and torque properly from engine modifications take it out and put it on an engine dyno.

By the way AL and AAT will dyno your car if you want but it is not necessary on road cars with bolt on mods as they know what they are doing, are experienced and have been doing it a lot longer IMHO.

AL are someone who I've heard and read have a poor reputation as well, my mate's M3 Cab went there and it wasn't very good at all...

**shimmy** · 11-07-2010, 10:19 PM

as Lawsy told me to but out of this thread i have loyally not read it until today

i have all weekend been looking forward to reading many threads of expert opinions

:h ahaha:

only thing ive learnt is how to wind Lawsy up

(thanks Matt)

Bealo · 12-07-2010, 07:42 AM

I agree Shim, funny reading

DuncanR · 12-07-2010, 09:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shimmy

only thing ive learnt is how to wind Lawsy up

(thanks Matt)

Please tell me you didnt call him a fookin Manc ???

mattCSLnut · 12-07-2010, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shimmy

as Lawsy told me to but out of this thread i have loyally not read it until today

only thing ive learnt is how to wind Lawsy up

(thanks Matt)

Any time Shimmy

Gee@aat · 24-09-2010, 02:17 AM

Hi Guys,

I stumbled upon this thread and felt I had to sign up and post.

First of all I would like to clear up that AATechnik is not the same as AL Tuning. However we do know each other very well. They tune totally independent to my self.

Before I start I would like to say this is not an attempt for me to sell a product or my service. I generally do not get much time get on forums and try to sell my products/service to people and nor would I want to. And the times I do I sometimes read false infomation and unfortunateley the ones that do not know any better believe it. It can get quite annoying at times.

Now moving onto M3’s and software tuning…

There are many companies now that are offering remaps/software tuning for these cars.

When I first started tuning M3’s I was the first one I believe in the UK to get any general power increase from these vehicles.

As I went further into tuning these cars I realised how inconsistent performance figures were on these vehicles after tuning. I know that other tuning companies are also experiencing similar issues that I was back then.

After scratching my head and trying to figure out exactly what was going on I soon realised what works and what does not.

These in consistencies have been blamed on all sorts of things, Cam Timing being out on stock cars, air mass sensors being faulty the list goes on.

First of all I have probably lost count of the amount of S54 Engines that I have stripped down and in stock form I have never come across an engine with the cam timing slightly out but hey I could be wrong….

Secondly I believe no real investigation ever gets carried out when these claims are made. No real diagnostic work is ever carried out. Just assumptions!
If ever I have a car that we need to tune on a dyno which has custom parts fitted and it does not make the required power we look into why.

Thankfully we have good diagnostic tools and actually have automotive background.

We are able to look at
Vanos position in real degrees for each bank while the car is running from this I can see if I am getting the correct angle compared to what is programmed by bmw in the ecu.
We can check ignition in degrees for each cylinder
Knock sensor voltage, from this I then calculate how much degrees of ignition the ecu is actually pulling. Then I look into why..

And a whole load of other stuff that generally is not available on your average diagnostic tools out there.

After over 30 alterations we released our software for road going cars, and this is after 5 months of testing with customers…..

To get anymore than 20hp from these engines consistently one would need to push the engine very hard indeed. Many other tuners/companies may disagree but I know that I can make a car show 20hp gain on a dyno with some tuning, I also know that 2 weeks down the line if I was to re dyno the car, most of the time that gain would either not be there or be much less as the DME has adapted and did not like the changes made.

So sometimes having a car on a dyno showing some good gains doesn’t necessarily mean they are there for good. Altering certain perimeters with in the DME will make power for some short time until adaptations take place.

I am not saying that dyno’s are useless, they are a very good tool, my argument is with oem engine management there are many variables that go through adaption and the gains seen sometimes are not necessarily there for good. It is these adaptions that keep engines from going horribly wrong when tuned incorrectly.

On another note, here is something to think about, when purchasing a supercharger kit for these cars either from ESS or Active Autowerke, are you required to dyno tune the car? Come on guys we are talking of increase of 100hp minimum. No you send your dme away it gets flashed and you fit into the car and drive. Now how many stories have you heard about where a supercharged car has blown up because of the software not being right? Think about this…. J

When we first released our software for the E46 M3 we quoted +17hp we soon realised that it was not consistant and then every customer who enquired about the remap we explained that gains would be anywhere between 10hp to 17hp. Generally we see around 15hp. We were also asked why we do not put the car on the dyno and “tweak the map” and the reason is that we have set the road software at a point where we think is safe for a road car. If we were to get 20hp from an s54 we would get it CONSISTANTLY, some months down the line if nothing has changed mechanically on the engine the gain would still be there and there would concern for the engines in the long run.
I have seen stock S54 engines go wrong, I certainly was not going to release something that was going to contribute to that happening.

With over 200 M3’s tuned worldwide over 100 from one UK forum alone, not one has gone wrong I think this rather proves the point….

I hope this clears things up…

Lastly I would like to point out that this my opinion based on my experience many may disagree J

Gee

11-07-2010, 10:19 PM	#56
shimmy CSL Register Uber-poster! Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Uk Posts: 14,646 Casino cash: $43909	as Lawsy told me to but out of this thread i have loyally not read it until today i have all weekend been looking forward to reading many threads of expert opinions :h ahaha: only thing ive learnt is how to wind Lawsy up (thanks Matt) __________________ .

12-07-2010, 07:42 AM	#57
Bealo Driving it like I nicked it Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Everywhere. Posts: 2,540 Casino cash: $12738	I agree Shim, funny reading __________________

24-09-2010, 02:17 AM	#60
Gee@aat Wonky 'L' after Washing Join Date: Sep 2010 Posts: 4 Casino cash: $277	Hi Guys, I stumbled upon this thread and felt I had to sign up and post. First of all I would like to clear up that AATechnik is not the same as AL Tuning. However we do know each other very well. They tune totally independent to my self. Before I start I would like to say this is not an attempt for me to sell a product or my service. I generally do not get much time get on forums and try to sell my products/service to people and nor would I want to. And the times I do I sometimes read false infomation and unfortunateley the ones that do not know any better believe it. It can get quite annoying at times. Now moving onto M3’s and software tuning… There are many companies now that are offering remaps/software tuning for these cars. When I first started tuning M3’s I was the first one I believe in the UK to get any general power increase from these vehicles. As I went further into tuning these cars I realised how inconsistent performance figures were on these vehicles after tuning. I know that other tuning companies are also experiencing similar issues that I was back then. After scratching my head and trying to figure out exactly what was going on I soon realised what works and what does not. These in consistencies have been blamed on all sorts of things, Cam Timing being out on stock cars, air mass sensors being faulty the list goes on. First of all I have probably lost count of the amount of S54 Engines that I have stripped down and in stock form I have never come across an engine with the cam timing slightly out but hey I could be wrong…. Secondly I believe no real investigation ever gets carried out when these claims are made. No real diagnostic work is ever carried out. Just assumptions! If ever I have a car that we need to tune on a dyno which has custom parts fitted and it does not make the required power we look into why. Thankfully we have good diagnostic tools and actually have automotive background. We are able to look at Vanos position in real degrees for each bank while the car is running from this I can see if I am getting the correct angle compared to what is programmed by bmw in the ecu. We can check ignition in degrees for each cylinder Knock sensor voltage, from this I then calculate how much degrees of ignition the ecu is actually pulling. Then I look into why.. And a whole load of other stuff that generally is not available on your average diagnostic tools out there. After over 30 alterations we released our software for road going cars, and this is after 5 months of testing with customers….. To get anymore than 20hp from these engines consistently one would need to push the engine very hard indeed. Many other tuners/companies may disagree but I know that I can make a car show 20hp gain on a dyno with some tuning, I also know that 2 weeks down the line if I was to re dyno the car, most of the time that gain would either not be there or be much less as the DME has adapted and did not like the changes made. So sometimes having a car on a dyno showing some good gains doesn’t necessarily mean they are there for good. Altering certain perimeters with in the DME will make power for some short time until adaptations take place. I am not saying that dyno’s are useless, they are a very good tool, my argument is with oem engine management there are many variables that go through adaption and the gains seen sometimes are not necessarily there for good. It is these adaptions that keep engines from going horribly wrong when tuned incorrectly. On another note, here is something to think about, when purchasing a supercharger kit for these cars either from ESS or Active Autowerke, are you required to dyno tune the car? Come on guys we are talking of increase of 100hp minimum. No you send your dme away it gets flashed and you fit into the car and drive. Now how many stories have you heard about where a supercharged car has blown up because of the software not being right? Think about this…. J When we first released our software for the E46 M3 we quoted +17hp we soon realised that it was not consistant and then every customer who enquired about the remap we explained that gains would be anywhere between 10hp to 17hp. Generally we see around 15hp. We were also asked why we do not put the car on the dyno and “tweak the map” and the reason is that we have set the road software at a point where we think is safe for a road car. If we were to get 20hp from an s54 we would get it CONSISTANTLY, some months down the line if nothing has changed mechanically on the engine the gain would still be there and there would concern for the engines in the long run. I have seen stock S54 engines go wrong, I certainly was not going to release something that was going to contribute to that happening. With over 200 M3’s tuned worldwide over 100 from one UK forum alone, not one has gone wrong I think this rather proves the point…. I hope this clears things up… Lastly I would like to point out that this my opinion based on my experience many may disagree J Gee Last edited by Gee@aat; 24-09-2010 at 02:31 AM.

10-07-2010, 06:05 PM	#53
cantfind1 S5, Sport Off, DSC M-track Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 675 Casino cash: $6490	PM'ed Mate. PS always wanted to say I quite like the red wheels! but not in a gay way!