steering rack - Page 3

7.77 · 09-08-2011, 02:05 PM

had to take a plane, shake these white collars at the factory in munchen, had some beers, pick up the steering rack, had some beers, take the plane back to france, had 1 beer, and mollest my dealer !

no, there was just 7 left at the factory. my dealer had to send some fax and mails in germany. he finally received it this morning.

ask the official csl register dealer (murkett ??) to order 2 or 3, just in case.

it is based on an exchange, you can't keep your old rack

ChrisCSL · 08-05-2012, 09:32 PM

As you may already know from my post in "Hi to new members", my car was converted from RHD to LHD. Now I just learned, that the CSL steering rack is twice the price than a normal M3 rack.

Hmmm. I get a little bit unsure, if they really build in an original LHD CSL rack.
So, I just turned the wheel: It is exactly 1,5 turns from center to full turn in.

So, please enlighten me: Is it a CSL rack or just a "standard" M3 one?

Chris

**shimmy** · 08-05-2012, 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChrisCSL

As you may already know from my post in "Hi to new members", my car was converted from RHD to LHD. Now I just learned, that the CSL steering rack is twice the price than a normal M3 rack.

Hmmm. I get a little bit unsure, if they really build in an original LHD CSL rack.
So, I just turned the wheel: It is exactly 1,5 turns from center to full turn in.

So, please enlighten me: Is it a CSL rack or just a "standard" M3 one?

Chris

I believe a CSL rack is different and like a Z3M rack

ChrisCSL · 08-05-2012, 10:20 PM

Yep, they are different!
CSL Rack has transmission ratio of 14.5 : 1
M3 only 15.4 :1. So CSL rack is slightly faster.

What I don't know is: One and a half turns from center to full lock, is that 14.5 or 15.4 : 1?
Or in other words: How much turns do you need in your cars?

The Gorilla · 08-05-2012, 11:00 PM

Hi,

Sounds like you have E46 M3 Rack.

E46 M3 is 15.4.1 which is approx
2.95 turns lock to lock, so
approx 1.5 each way.

E46 CSL is 14.5.1 which is approx
2.7 turns lock to lock.

A Z3 Rack from a 1.9 to 2.8 engined car is almost
the same as the CSL rack, just a fraction
slower, you would never notice it
but the Z3M rack is slower at 3.0 turns.

Z3 Rack will bolt straight in as well and you can
use the same outer tie rods etc.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

ChrisCSL · 09-05-2012, 12:07 AM

Thank You!
Yes I definitely don't have the CSL rack.

Made a quick and dilettantish simulation:

Thats a CSL rack, full lock at 126 degrees

By chriscsl at 2012-05-08

and M3 rack, full lock at 171 degrees

By chriscsl at 2012-05-08

Quite a difference. For sure more than I had expected.
I think this will be my project for the next winter

ChrisCSL · 09-05-2012, 12:22 AM

I assume, you guys can supply me with plenty of cheap CSL steering racks, left from your last LHD to RHD conversion?

..nope, I don't really think so...

The Gorilla · 09-05-2012, 01:23 AM

Hi,

If your Car was RHD and has been
Converted to LHD which exhaust
manifold [Header] do you have
fitted ?

Just that the LHD gives a couple more
ponies, slightly better flow on the primaries.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

ChrisCSL · 09-05-2012, 09:57 AM

Good hint, thanks!
Any ideas, how to check? Is there any visible difference between LHD and RHD manifold?
Am I right, that there only is a difference in the manifold for cyl. 4-6?:
http://de.bmwfans.info/parts/catalog...aust_manifold/
Manifold for cyl. 1-3 is identical?

I bet that the RHD one is still in there.

Pooky · 09-05-2012, 10:17 AM

As a quick point the lock to lock turns of a steering system is not a guide of ratio as it depends on rack travel. BMW have a history of having different rack travels on their M cars to restrict lock to account for bigger front wheels and tyres, and this affects the lock to lock measurement.

Only way to properly measure the steering rack ratio is to measure rack travel vs pinion angle, this is how rack ratios are specified in the industry. So for a straight non variable ratio you can measure rack bar travel per one turn of pinion, you end up with a figure of mm/rev.

The steering wheel to road wheel ratio, quoted as a number like 15:1 etc, is affected by both the phasing of the column universal joints and the amount of ackermann the car produces.

And last point, if you have a car with variable steering ratio like a lot of modern cars, (and the original E36 3.0 M3), you can measure a small lock to lock amount which misleads you into thinking it has a fast ratio, when it actually has a slow ratio on centre that speeds up towards end of lock.

09-08-2011, 02:05 PM	#21
7.77 S5 - Full Throttle Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: france Posts: 284 Casino cash: $4221	had to take a plane, shake these white collars at the factory in munchen, had some beers, pick up the steering rack, had some beers, take the plane back to france, had 1 beer, and mollest my dealer ! no, there was just 7 left at the factory. my dealer had to send some fax and mails in germany. he finally received it this morning. ask the official csl register dealer (murkett ??) to order 2 or 3, just in case. it is based on an exchange, you can't keep your old rack __________________

08-05-2012, 10:20 PM	#24
ChrisCSL S2 - Picking it up Join Date: May 2012 Location: Germany / Rheinland Pfalz Posts: 57 Casino cash: $6143	Yep, they are different! CSL Rack has transmission ratio of 14.5 : 1 M3 only 15.4 :1. So CSL rack is slightly faster. What I don't know is: One and a half turns from center to full lock, is that 14.5 or 15.4 : 1? Or in other words: How much turns do you need in your cars? Last edited by ChrisCSL; 08-05-2012 at 10:26 PM.

08-05-2012, 09:32 PM	#22
ChrisCSL S2 - Picking it up Join Date: May 2012 Location: Germany / Rheinland Pfalz Posts: 57 Casino cash: $6143	As you may already know from my post in "Hi to new members", my car was converted from RHD to LHD. Now I just learned, that the CSL steering rack is twice the price than a normal M3 rack. Hmmm. I get a little bit unsure, if they really build in an original LHD CSL rack. So, I just turned the wheel: It is exactly 1,5 turns from center to full turn in. So, please enlighten me: Is it a CSL rack or just a "standard" M3 one? Chris

08-05-2012, 11:00 PM	#25
The Gorilla S5, Sport Off, DSC M-track Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 740 Casino cash: $14401	Hi, Sounds like you have E46 M3 Rack. E46 M3 is 15.4.1 which is approx 2.95 turns lock to lock, so approx 1.5 each way. E46 CSL is 14.5.1 which is approx 2.7 turns lock to lock. A Z3 Rack from a 1.9 to 2.8 engined car is almost the same as the CSL rack, just a fraction slower, you would never notice it but the Z3M rack is slower at 3.0 turns. Z3 Rack will bolt straight in as well and you can use the same outer tie rods etc. Regards, The Gorilla.

09-05-2012, 12:07 AM	#26
ChrisCSL S2 - Picking it up Join Date: May 2012 Location: Germany / Rheinland Pfalz Posts: 57 Casino cash: $6143	Thank You! Yes I definitely don't have the CSL rack. Made a quick and dilettantish simulation: Thats a CSL rack, full lock at 126 degrees By chriscsl at 2012-05-08 and M3 rack, full lock at 171 degrees By chriscsl at 2012-05-08 Quite a difference. For sure more than I had expected. I think this will be my project for the next winter

09-05-2012, 12:22 AM	#27
ChrisCSL S2 - Picking it up Join Date: May 2012 Location: Germany / Rheinland Pfalz Posts: 57 Casino cash: $6143	I assume, you guys can supply me with plenty of cheap CSL steering racks, left from your last LHD to RHD conversion? ..nope, I don't really think so...

09-05-2012, 01:23 AM	#28
The Gorilla S5, Sport Off, DSC M-track Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 740 Casino cash: $14401	Hi, If your Car was RHD and has been Converted to LHD which exhaust manifold [Header] do you have fitted ? Just that the LHD gives a couple more ponies, slightly better flow on the primaries. Regards, The Gorilla.

09-05-2012, 09:57 AM	#29
ChrisCSL S2 - Picking it up Join Date: May 2012 Location: Germany / Rheinland Pfalz Posts: 57 Casino cash: $6143	Good hint, thanks! Any ideas, how to check? Is there any visible difference between LHD and RHD manifold? Am I right, that there only is a difference in the manifold for cyl. 4-6?: http://de.bmwfans.info/parts/catalog...aust_manifold/ Manifold for cyl. 1-3 is identical? I bet that the RHD one is still in there.

09-05-2012, 10:17 AM	#30
Pooky S4 - Getting the hang of it Join Date: Jan 2012 Posts: 187 Casino cash: $11992	As a quick point the lock to lock turns of a steering system is not a guide of ratio as it depends on rack travel. BMW have a history of having different rack travels on their M cars to restrict lock to account for bigger front wheels and tyres, and this affects the lock to lock measurement. Only way to properly measure the steering rack ratio is to measure rack travel vs pinion angle, this is how rack ratios are specified in the industry. So for a straight non variable ratio you can measure rack bar travel per one turn of pinion, you end up with a figure of mm/rev. The steering wheel to road wheel ratio, quoted as a number like 15:1 etc, is affected by both the phasing of the column universal joints and the amount of ackermann the car produces. And last point, if you have a car with variable steering ratio like a lot of modern cars, (and the original E36 3.0 M3), you can measure a small lock to lock amount which misleads you into thinking it has a fast ratio, when it actually has a slow ratio on centre that speeds up towards end of lock.