The definitive suspension thread

[Mike R]

Originally Posted by The Gorilla

Hi,

The other Big aspect is personal driving
styles, one likes what another dislikes and so
on.

I personally like a Car with Oversteer dialled
in at the start so the deeper in you go,
the more neutral it gets, others would hate it.

There never has been nor will there ever
be a Suspension for both worlds, Road and
Track, and the more adjustability your Track /Race
suspension has the more you start killing
it everytime you drive on the road, and nice
compliant road suspension wanders and rolls
way to much on Race Track Asphalt, where suspension loads
and lateral G Forces want to rip out the std bushings
as quickly as possible.

No free lunch.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

Danny,
That is most certainly true about roundy roundy tracks, where race-car style spring and damper rates would wipe the floor with a road biased set up. Fortunately, I'm not looking for that kind of suspension for the CSL, as although I do use it for the occasional UK track day, the Cossie is far more suited for that kind of track work.

For the CSL I'm trying to find a good suspension set up that will work at the 'ring and due to the bumps that this circuit has, a more road biased set-up actually works quite well, hence the research.

I also would ideally like to avoid multi-adjustable suspension for the reasons you and Daz mention, as you can just end up chasing your tail round and round. The lack of adjustment on the CSL has not been missed - its actually nice to only have tyre temps / pressures to worry about (and with the Cups, you just seem to drop them to 26psi and then forget about them until it is time to drive home LOL) .

I'm not chasing times - just looking for something that will compliment the CSL's chassis .

[Mike R]

Originally Posted by shimmy

Fuck off....you ruled mine out in your first post

You don't care.

Ah, I assume you got the Intrax in the end LOL.

Oout of curiosity, what is it you dislike about the Nitrons?

[glendog74]

Originally Posted by glendog74

Like Dazza above, I have tried a couple of setups by trial and error whilst learning the car more through track days and trips to the Nürburgring.

Initially using the standard car Sachs suspension on road and my early Ring driving, I found it perfect for my ability at that time.

However, as my speed on track increased I was finding the lack of adjustment with the OEM suspension limiting and thus fitted Turner adjustable top mounts which certainly helped reduce tyre wear resulting from track driving. To be fair this setup is probably all most would ever need for road/track use as The Primate mentions although I did find I was pushing the roll limits of the car on certain tracks such as Spa.

Ultimately I wanted a step up in suspension performance to retain better car body control so like Dazza opted for the KW Clubsport setup in 2009. I have used this setup since and have to say it is perfect for me with a little tweak between road and track setting being the only fiddling required. I believe the latest version has an easy single adjuster rather than the faff with Allen keys which I have with my kit.

The great thing about the KW Clubsport setup apart from the improvement over OEM is that they adopt the same strut/spring arrangement at the rear rather than the coil overs of other kits and the have the added bonus of lowering the car a little over OEM (which sits too high aesthetically IMHO).

I have been totally happy with my KWs and other CSLR members and many passengers have commented on how well the car rides when on track.

KW Clubsport settings on this thread:

http://www.cslregister.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4769

[Mike R]

Originally Posted by glendog74

KW Clubsport settings on this thread:

http://www.cslregister.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4769

Many thanks .

How do you find it on the road and do you have the KW standard spring rates or have you changed them?

[DazBlackCSL]

Originally Posted by Mike R

Hi Daz,
That is exactly the kind of real world experience I was seeking, many thanks for taking the time to write all that .

No Probs dude ;-)

Like you said it sounds like your looking for what ultimately I really needed and enjoyed, a better set up than OEM but not for chasing times, dial in and go, sort tyres / pressures etc in the mix .. And at the end of the day have an enjoyable spirited drive home without losing your teeth.

For me the V3 kit is exactly that mix, the new kits now have a really nice simple adjustment, like Rob says, rather than the fiddly set up I had ( I'm lazy too ) lol

Both rob and myself had the privilege of having the kits fitted at the HQ at KW Germany, so no better set up possible. Rob's Clubsport is perfect for him as he doesn't need it a daily and only does track days and ring trips, mine at the time was that plus daily so v3 is the better option.

Clubsport is a good kit just depends what you need it for.

And the added bonus of how they are built in house means they stand up to the test of time better than others, salt, dust, rain etc just do some research to see what I mean, the coating on them are more hard wearing and don't need as much ( re building ) if looked after as in serviced and checked by an expert.

[alexk]

Mike, I concur with Danny.
What you want to do and what you like are very important factors.

I personally upgraded my suspension because I think I came close to the limits of the OEM suspension and it was becoming dangerous.

I run as you maybe know TTX 4-way race dampers.
Front spring rate is 130N/mm and rear 80N/mm.
Most people will say they are too hard.
I find them fantastic for the use that I am doing.
You need to have guts to drive fast in Autobahnen with many bumps. I found myself flying with 200+ km/h (hair getting whiter et cetera).
More info here -> http://www.cslregister.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10231

[shimmy]

Originally Posted by Mike R

Ah, I assume you got the Intrax in the end LOL.

Oout of curiosity, what is it you dislike about the Nitrons?

Lack of development. They've been trying to get E46 to work for 4 years since LeonB had the kit and still it doesn't seem to be valves/sized correctly.

Had the 1k2 since 2008 I think. Had two rebuilds/services and also had them rebooked to Steel from Aluminium as the Alu corrodes/reascts and snaps eventually. This year will go to Black Mambo coating as the Stella also rust eventually which can seize the front dampers.

I had the Nitron 4 way and they were pants as adjustment was all over e shop once you started to move them. Never even got close to having them work as well as the 1k2.

I had Bealo's car for a while and I thought the KW Clubsport were good we'll built units although never drove them on track.

What I have noticed about the Intrax is that they have fantastic adjustment and work across the FULL range meaning I guess they have been sized and vases well as the single adjuster does 2 ways. They ride kerbs fantastically and on my set up seem to make the car feel very planted at all times. I think those that have been in my car mostly comment how stable the car feels (and how sweaty it smells)

I however do chase times and I think for the money the best track weapons are the Black Titanium Intrax 1k2. Service every two winters.

[Mike R]

Originally Posted by alexk

Mike, I concur with Danny.
What you want to do and what you like are very important factors.

I personally upgraded my suspension because I think I came close to the limits of the OEM suspension and it was becoming dangerous.

I run as you maybe know TTX 4-way race dampers.
Front spring rate is 130N/mm and rear 80N/mm.
Most people will say they are too hard.
I find them fantastic for the use that I am doing.
You need to have guts to drive fast in Autobahnen with many bumps. I found myself flying with 200+ km/h (hair getting whiter et cetera).
More info here -> http://www.cslregister.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10231

That sounds like a race set up, which I think would be way too hard for the 'ring - 130N/mm is over 740lb and 80N/mm is 456lb. As an idea, I run only 80N/mm on the front of my Escort and just 45 on the rear and it is similar weight to a CSL.

I think you will find your set up scary at the 'ring, but I bet it is amazing on a normal track .

[Mike R]

Originally Posted by shimmy

Lack of development. They've been trying to get E46 to work for 4 years since LeonB had the kit and still it doesn't seem to be valves/sized correctly.

Had the 1k2 since 2008 I think. Had two rebuilds/services and also had them rebooked to Steel from Aluminium as the Alu corrodes/reascts and snaps eventually. This year will go to Black Mambo coating as the Stella also rust eventually which can seize the front dampers.

I had the Nitron 4 way and they were pants as adjustment was all over e shop once you started to move them. Never even got close to having them work as well as the 1k2.

I had Bealo's car for a while and I thought the KW Clubsport were good we'll built units although never drove them on track.

What I have noticed about the Intrax is that they have fantastic adjustment and work across the FULL range meaning I guess they have been sized and vases well as the single adjuster does 2 ways. They ride kerbs fantastically and on my set up seem to make the car feel very planted at all times. I think those that have been in my car mostly comment how stable the car feels (and how sweaty it smells)

I however do chase times and I think for the money the best track weapons are the Black Titanium Intrax 1k2. Service every two winters.

Wasn't so hard was it ? That is great information thanks .

What spring rates do you have?

[shimmy]

Used to have 100/50 and now 120/60. So far not felt ANY difference

Nick Bell used to run 140/70 at the ring and he was quick.