Worried with those subframe stories - Page 2

Alx · 09-12-2013, 08:00 PM

As AlexK says, they have never heard of it here.

The technical papers state models until February 2000 if I remember correctly, so they will just ignore it.

I have been put in contact with a guy that owns a small garage who is a BMW specialist (and a big CSL fan).

He did mention that it was quite a rare problem. He has client who owns a CSL with 40'000 km of hard track driving and the car is flawless.

He said that as a preventive work, we could install PowerFlex bushes.

He did not mention the foam injections though.

I might take my car there for the next service.

Thank you again,

Alex

**shimmy** · 09-12-2013, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alx

As AlexK says, they have never heard of it here.

The technical papers state models until February 2000 if I remember correctly, so they will just ignore it.

I have been put in contact with a guy that owns a small garage who is a BMW specialist (and a big CSL fan).

He did mention that it was quite a rare problem. He has client who owns a CSL with 40'000 km of hard track driving and the car is flawless.

He said that as a preventive work, we could install PowerFlex bushes.

He did not mention the foam injections though.

I might take my car there for the next service.

Thank you again,

Alex

alx

sounds like that guy doesnt understand either

Alx · 09-12-2013, 08:09 PM

Thank you Shimmy.

So the best thing would be the foam injection + the reinforcement kit like this http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-91...ement-kit.aspx ?

JBird · 09-12-2013, 08:17 PM

Hi Alex (OP Alex that is)

Where abouts are you? Before you go ahead with the plate kit, I would wait for the photos from Monkey, and have the floor thoroughly checked by someone who knows what to look for. The cracks on the LH tend to be more visible, you can get a small camera in through stabiliser bar bracket to take a photo. Those on the RHS (for me at least) were not visible till the floor was removed. You need to get in there with a probe camera to have a chance of seeing them, and the the wax and dirt on the surface would have to be cleaned off. I just put some updated info on my repair here.

You are right that there appears to be less acknowledgement of the problem in other countries compared to the UK. When I was trying to get my (UK) CSL done in Germany I asked at M directly (through some friends that work there) if they could recommend a Garage in sthn Germany experienced with the repair. To my surprise they claimed that the cracks never happen on any late model E46s/M3s, only on the very early 98/99 std E46s. I laughed and explained that every second car with an SMG in having the floor replaced, to which they were sceptical. I really wonder how many of the goodwill claim statistics filter through to the engineers responsible for issuing the repair guidelines, and if (as you hinted at) it is still the correct repair method long term. i.e., is a replaced-and-foam-filled-floor only going to crack again in a few years?

If you read German M3 forums it seems some people have had the repair done by BMW under goodwill / kulanz. When asking in Switzerland, try to differentiate between body warranty and goodwill. AFAIK goodwill is 10yrs worldwide, and that is how everyone gets the repair done. The 3yr factory warranty you mention should be irrelevant. I don't think anyone in the UK ever had more that a 3yr base warranty without paying for it. There is a 6 or 12 years on body corrosion depending on if it is an 03 or 04 car. Many 03 models have been repaired under goodwill between 6 and 10 years age for example. I suspect you need to push harder / ask the right person. Print out the repair guidelines, and go to a bodyshop with pics of the damage. Obviously remove any go faster bits, and you never went on track if asked!

Anyway, if you manage to find cracks, and are considering trying to get it fixed in Germany feel free to PM me for some garages. I did quite a bit of enquiring before ultimately getting it done in the UK.

JBird · 09-12-2013, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shimmy

alx

sounds like that guy doesnt understand either

Agreed. I don't think poweflex bushes will help, and I am sceptical of the reinforcement kit, certainly not without the foam injection.

I honestly think a car that has only been on track will be less likely to have a cracked floor than a car that has been only on the road. To me it's the cold low rev changes typical of everyday driving that send a jolt through the drive line that loads the 3 diff bushes to the limit of their progression which in turn loads the subframe bushes and floor. Well, that and sharp bumps like those from potholes. Maybe the problem is more known in the UK because the roads are so unbelievably shit? The high rev changes that you can achieve on track tend to be crisp and smooth. Anyway, I digress, thoughts are irrelevant, BMW want to hear that it hasn't been on track, so that's what you tell em.

Alx · 09-12-2013, 09:13 PM

Hi JBird,

Many thanks for your precious help.

I live in Geneva in Switzerland.

I don't think I will do anything before the spring.

My car had an Oilservice in July of this year at my local BMW garage and the guys inspected the chassis. Apparently no cracks were found.

It's not that I totally trust them, but I'm a bit relieved.

I am hesitating on doing the preventive work (foam only?) or leave it as it is and have it checked at each service.

Thank you again!
Alex

JBird · 09-12-2013, 09:25 PM

Ok Alx, but be wary of the 10yrs goodwill, just in case that is possible to make use of in Switzerland.

I'd still go to an indy sooner rather than later and get your car on a ramp and look for yourself. Good vid here from Reddish motorsport describing how to identify the initial cracks. For the LHS you can even see it with the car on a normal jack and the LH wheel off. Really need to know where to look though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaTYBaMpUtE

mattCSLnut · 09-12-2013, 09:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shimmy

i guess they have decided that the chance a legal case succeeding is very low so are denying it all.

You'd be surprised how close U are to the truth

Alx · 09-12-2013, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBird

Ok Alx, but be wary of the 10yrs goodwill, just in case that is possible to make use of in Switzerland.

I'd still go to an indy sooner rather than later and get your car on a ramp and look for yourself. Good vid here from Reddish motorsport describing how to identify the initial cracks. For the LHS you can even see it with the car on a normal jack and the LH wheel off. Really need to know where to look though.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HaTYBaMpUtE

Thank you JBird.

I took my car to a body shop earlier this year to repaint the wheels and the front bumper and I also asked him to check the chassis.

He told me that it was fine.

My car is from July 2003, so it's out of the 10 years goodwill anyway.

Cheers,
Alex

**alexk** · 09-12-2013, 10:28 PM

There is no 10yr goodwill in Switzerland...

09-12-2013, 08:00 PM	#11
Alx S5 - Full Throttle Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 487 Casino cash: $25206	As AlexK says, they have never heard of it here. The technical papers state models until February 2000 if I remember correctly, so they will just ignore it. I have been put in contact with a guy that owns a small garage who is a BMW specialist (and a big CSL fan). He did mention that it was quite a rare problem. He has client who owns a CSL with 40'000 km of hard track driving and the car is flawless. He said that as a preventive work, we could install PowerFlex bushes. He did not mention the foam injections though. I might take my car there for the next service. Thank you again, Alex __________________ ///Alex

09-12-2013, 08:09 PM	#13
Alx S5 - Full Throttle Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 487 Casino cash: $25206	Thank you Shimmy. So the best thing would be the foam injection + the reinforcement kit like this http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-91...ement-kit.aspx ? __________________ ///Alex

09-12-2013, 09:13 PM	#16
Alx S5 - Full Throttle Join Date: Aug 2011 Posts: 487 Casino cash: $25206	Hi JBird, Many thanks for your precious help. I live in Geneva in Switzerland. I don't think I will do anything before the spring. My car had an Oilservice in July of this year at my local BMW garage and the guys inspected the chassis. Apparently no cracks were found. It's not that I totally trust them, but I'm a bit relieved. I am hesitating on doing the preventive work (foam only?) or leave it as it is and have it checked at each service. Thank you again! Alex __________________ ///Alex

09-12-2013, 10:28 PM	#20
alexk Driving it like I nicked it Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,784 Casino cash: $29969	There is no 10yr goodwill in Switzerland... __________________ www.clubcsl.com - I am a BMW Motorsport fan ! My youtube channel is here

09-12-2013, 08:17 PM	#14
JBird S5 - Full Throttle Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Munich Posts: 280 Casino cash: $5259	Hi Alex (OP Alex that is) Where abouts are you? Before you go ahead with the plate kit, I would wait for the photos from Monkey, and have the floor thoroughly checked by someone who knows what to look for. The cracks on the LH tend to be more visible, you can get a small camera in through stabiliser bar bracket to take a photo. Those on the RHS (for me at least) were not visible till the floor was removed. You need to get in there with a probe camera to have a chance of seeing them, and the the wax and dirt on the surface would have to be cleaned off. I just put some updated info on my repair here. You are right that there appears to be less acknowledgement of the problem in other countries compared to the UK. When I was trying to get my (UK) CSL done in Germany I asked at M directly (through some friends that work there) if they could recommend a Garage in sthn Germany experienced with the repair. To my surprise they claimed that the cracks never happen on any late model E46s/M3s, only on the very early 98/99 std E46s. I laughed and explained that every second car with an SMG in having the floor replaced, to which they were sceptical. I really wonder how many of the goodwill claim statistics filter through to the engineers responsible for issuing the repair guidelines, and if (as you hinted at) it is still the correct repair method long term. i.e., is a replaced-and-foam-filled-floor only going to crack again in a few years? If you read German M3 forums it seems some people have had the repair done by BMW under goodwill / kulanz. When asking in Switzerland, try to differentiate between body warranty and goodwill. AFAIK goodwill is 10yrs worldwide, and that is how everyone gets the repair done. The 3yr factory warranty you mention should be irrelevant. I don't think anyone in the UK ever had more that a 3yr base warranty without paying for it. There is a 6 or 12 years on body corrosion depending on if it is an 03 or 04 car. Many 03 models have been repaired under goodwill between 6 and 10 years age for example. I suspect you need to push harder / ask the right person. Print out the repair guidelines, and go to a bodyshop with pics of the damage. Obviously remove any go faster bits, and you never went on track if asked! Anyway, if you manage to find cracks, and are considering trying to get it fixed in Germany feel free to PM me for some garages. I did quite a bit of enquiring before ultimately getting it done in the UK.