Looking for some engine info

**Mark CSL** · 14-01-2013, 11:21 PM

My friend has a Mcoupe and wants to install the e46 M3 engine in it he has the engine from a damaged car with ever thing its only done 5,000 miles
is there a way to do it ?
will it need a standalone ecu ?
who makes them if it does ?
any info would be good

**alexk** · 15-01-2013, 08:21 AM

Hi Mark

The M coupe had an S54 version, so sourcing the right harness and ECU should do it.

The Gorilla · 16-01-2013, 02:50 PM

Hi,

As Alex said, but you will have to use
the 5 Speed Getrag as the 6 speed will
not fit in the tunnel / bulkhead without
lots of alteration and fabrication.

5 speed from the E36 M3 3.0 or 328 is
the same ratios as the 6 speed without
the 6th gear.

Will need to alter rear diff ratio as the
Z3M runs a 3.15, but as the rear subframe
is almost the same as the E30 you can
fit a Med Sized LSD [188mm] from a E30
and a 3.64 or 3.73 CW/p will more than
keep a CSL honest.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

**Mark CSL** · 16-01-2013, 08:11 PM

This is the type of car think its an MCoupe it has a 5 speed box its the engine we need the info on will it fit ? will it need the harness out the e46 ?
can it be done ?

shane@mbtech · 16-01-2013, 10:58 PM

You will need the loom and ecu plus the ignition module and key ideally

**alexk** · 16-01-2013, 11:31 PM

Hi Mark,

The S50B32 powered M Coupe that your friend has, has a very different harness to the S54B32 powered one.

Some obvious differences are :
- The S50 has cable throttle while the S54 has drive-by-wire
- The S50 has no ASC/DSC, just ABS while the S54 has DSC (similar to the E46 unit)
- Different dashboard

I know the gearbox and rear axle is the same between the two cars.

I am not sure what exactly you have to do with the harness and ECU.
However, I know someone that knows someone that unlocks all BMW ECUs (located in Austria).
The guy I know is using this programmer when they are doing crazy swaps (S54 on E30, S85 on E30 etc) and he was telling me he unlocks everything and you can have an S85 working with the E30 dashboard...

I will ask the guy I know about the Austrian guy and get back to you.
I am sure he is the person that will know what the issues with the ECU will be.
Otherwise the swap should be easy.

My question though is why you friend wants to put the S54 ?
To have 20HP more ?
Seems like a lot of trouble for a small gain.

NZ_M3 · 17-01-2013, 02:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Gorilla

As Alex said, but you will have to use
the 5 Speed Getrag as the 6 speed will
not fit in the tunnel / bulkhead without
lots of alteration and fabrication.

That's incorrect ... We have a workshop (that's done tons of hybrid swaps) here that actually tried this and it bolted right in ... I am asking him to send me photos, I'll post up when I get them.

Wiring loom is very different - I think for the money and the effort, your friend might be better off just finding a Z3 with the S54 already in it.

The Gorilla · 17-01-2013, 11:13 AM

Hi,

Quote-''That's incorrect ... We have a workshop (that's done tons of hybrid swaps) here that actually tried this and it bolted right in'' .

BMW Did not fit the 6 speed gearbox due to
Transmission tunnel issues.

For sure you can make it fit, but its
not a straight bolt in as I originally
posted.

I know of a couple of Z3M Coupes with
a 6 Speed box but it required modification
due to the fact that the 6 speed box is about
70mm longer than the 5 speed and the gearbox
mounting amongst other items requires modification etc.
as its in a different location.

Then you have the issue that the gear change
linkage and then the prop shaft etc.

Bulkhead alterations assist with items like
changing a clutch in situ as the 6 speed box is
longer and so it goes on.

For sure you can ''bolt it in'' [6 speed] but it's what you
have to alter/ fabricate to make it function.

On the loom / ECU unless you have matching keys
and EWS/ECU, or can access them, if you want
to retain the std ECU, then you will have to have the
EWS deleted, which can be done.

Most then optimise Vanos and the fueling and you can
even then switch to Bastardised Alpha N type set
up and delete the MAF which with the correct Airbox
it works well in the Z3.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

NZ_M3 · 17-01-2013, 01:35 PM

No disrespect Primate, but first you say :

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Gorilla

the 6 speed will
not fit in the tunnel / bulkhead without
lots of alteration and fabrication.

Which most would take to mean it would not physically fit in the transmission tunnel/bulkhead due to its extra length ...

then you go on to say :

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Gorilla

BMW Did not fit the 6 speed gearbox due to
Transmission tunnel issues.

And then I presume you then googled a bit and explained that:

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Gorilla

For sure you can make it fit, but its
not a straight bolt in as I originally
posted.

I know of a couple of Z3M Coupes with
a 6 Speed box but it required modification
due to the fact that the 6 speed box is about
70mm longer than the 5 speed and the gearbox
mounting amongst other items requires modification etc.
as its in a different location.

Then you have the issue that the gear change
linkage and then the prop shaft etc.

Bulkhead alterations assist with items like
changing a clutch in situ as the 6 speed box is
longer and so it goes on.

For sure you can ''bolt it in'' [6 speed] but it's what you
have to alter/ fabricate to make it function.

.

I am sorry, but unless you've actually physically lifted a 6 speed transmission into a Z3 chassis and couldn't bolt it up, or like me have seen the physical evidence of the fact that it can be done, then you are simply relaying the misinformation that is out there in the Internet world.

Go google on bimmerforums and you will find a guy on there explaining the process and how it is not a job requiring "a lot of alteration and fabrication" and how he states there's so much misinformation out there on the net over this swap and how many people say that it can't be done or how much modification is needed when they've never actually done the job or seen it done and proven that it can be done.

If you are ever in NZ, I'll physically drive you over to the shop to where the owner has done this and he can explain it to you how wrong you are. And then he'll probably offer you a drive of his 6 speed Z3 and tell you how BMW should have fitted this transmission to the car in the first place as it wasn't actually hard and can be a bolt in job.

ps. I actually spoke to the owner of the shop who did the swap and still owns this car and asked him about it today, as it was 2010 when he did the swap and been a while since I saw the photos.

The Gorilla · 17-01-2013, 03:44 PM

Hi,

2 friends have undertaken the Z3M with
6 speed box and I assisted on both,
so not sure about the reference to
the Google nonsense.

One was with S50 B32 and the other was
with S54, which require different
6 speed gearboxes.

You only have to offer up the six
speed box into the Z3M Coupe tunnel
to see the issues.

Its not a plug and play by any means.

I am not adding mis-information and
the issues are well known to those
that have undertaken such conversions.

Your correct on the mis-information
point though, and its created more
by 'armchair' comments than those
that actuially get dirty hands.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

14-01-2013, 11:21 PM	#1
Mark CSL CSL Register Uber-poster! Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Scotland Posts: 8,777 Casino cash: $42229	Looking for some engine info My friend has a Mcoupe and wants to install the e46 M3 engine in it he has the engine from a damaged car with ever thing its only done 5,000 miles is there a way to do it ? will it need a standalone ecu ? who makes them if it does ? any info would be good __________________ www.procarkits.co.uk

15-01-2013, 08:21 AM	#2
alexk Driving it like I nicked it Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,785 Casino cash: $29970	Hi Mark The M coupe had an S54 version, so sourcing the right harness and ECU should do it. __________________ www.clubcsl.com - I am a BMW Motorsport fan ! My youtube channel is here

16-01-2013, 08:11 PM	#4
Mark CSL CSL Register Uber-poster! Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Scotland Posts: 8,777 Casino cash: $42229	This is the type of car think its an MCoupe it has a 5 speed box its the engine we need the info on will it fit ? will it need the harness out the e46 ? can it be done ? __________________ www.procarkits.co.uk

16-01-2013, 11:31 PM	#6
alexk Driving it like I nicked it Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,785 Casino cash: $29970	Hi Mark, The S50B32 powered M Coupe that your friend has, has a very different harness to the S54B32 powered one. Some obvious differences are : - The S50 has cable throttle while the S54 has drive-by-wire - The S50 has no ASC/DSC, just ABS while the S54 has DSC (similar to the E46 unit) - Different dashboard I know the gearbox and rear axle is the same between the two cars. I am not sure what exactly you have to do with the harness and ECU. However, I know someone that knows someone that unlocks all BMW ECUs (located in Austria). The guy I know is using this programmer when they are doing crazy swaps (S54 on E30, S85 on E30 etc) and he was telling me he unlocks everything and you can have an S85 working with the E30 dashboard... I will ask the guy I know about the Austrian guy and get back to you. I am sure he is the person that will know what the issues with the ECU will be. Otherwise the swap should be easy. My question though is why you friend wants to put the S54 ? To have 20HP more ? Seems like a lot of trouble for a small gain. __________________ www.clubcsl.com - I am a BMW Motorsport fan ! My youtube channel is here

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16-01-2013, 02:50 PM	#3
The Gorilla S5, Sport Off, DSC M-track Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 740 Casino cash: $14401	Hi, As Alex said, but you will have to use the 5 Speed Getrag as the 6 speed will not fit in the tunnel / bulkhead without lots of alteration and fabrication. 5 speed from the E36 M3 3.0 or 328 is the same ratios as the 6 speed without the 6th gear. Will need to alter rear diff ratio as the Z3M runs a 3.15, but as the rear subframe is almost the same as the E30 you can fit a Med Sized LSD [188mm] from a E30 and a 3.64 or 3.73 CW/p will more than keep a CSL honest. Regards, The Gorilla.

16-01-2013, 10:58 PM	#5
shane@mbtech CSL Register Uber-poster! Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: warrington Posts: 5,419 Casino cash: $19783	You will need the loom and ecu plus the ignition module and key ideally

17-01-2013, 11:13 AM	#8
The Gorilla S5, Sport Off, DSC M-track Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 740 Casino cash: $14401	Hi, Quote-''That's incorrect ... We have a workshop (that's done tons of hybrid swaps) here that actually tried this and it bolted right in'' . BMW Did not fit the 6 speed gearbox due to Transmission tunnel issues. For sure you can make it fit, but its not a straight bolt in as I originally posted. I know of a couple of Z3M Coupes with a 6 Speed box but it required modification due to the fact that the 6 speed box is about 70mm longer than the 5 speed and the gearbox mounting amongst other items requires modification etc. as its in a different location. Then you have the issue that the gear change linkage and then the prop shaft etc. Bulkhead alterations assist with items like changing a clutch in situ as the 6 speed box is longer and so it goes on. For sure you can ''bolt it in'' [6 speed] but it's what you have to alter/ fabricate to make it function. On the loom / ECU unless you have matching keys and EWS/ECU, or can access them, if you want to retain the std ECU, then you will have to have the EWS deleted, which can be done. Most then optimise Vanos and the fueling and you can even then switch to Bastardised Alpha N type set up and delete the MAF which with the correct Airbox it works well in the Z3. Regards, The Gorilla.

17-01-2013, 03:44 PM	#10
The Gorilla S5, Sport Off, DSC M-track Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 740 Casino cash: $14401	Hi, 2 friends have undertaken the Z3M with 6 speed box and I assisted on both, so not sure about the reference to the Google nonsense. One was with S50 B32 and the other was with S54, which require different 6 speed gearboxes. You only have to offer up the six speed box into the Z3M Coupe tunnel to see the issues. Its not a plug and play by any means. I am not adding mis-information and the issues are well known to those that have undertaken such conversions. Your correct on the mis-information point though, and its created more by 'armchair' comments than those that actuially get dirty hands. Regards, The Gorilla.