A quick Alcon brake review (glass half full for Dan) ;-) - Page 4

Rutkowski · 13-10-2010, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Nathan_

I wouldn't hesitate to use rs29 on a road car, if you are using your brakes hard enough to think normal pads are made from chocolate then just bite the bullet.

i think i will..... thanks buddy!

northernjim · 14-10-2010, 12:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlexGTT

No Dan. Bedding them in is my job.

Like your attitude Alex

titan · 16-10-2010, 06:37 PM

Righto, got around to having a wee look at the brakes. I gave them a very quick sanding with light grit, more to remove the rust than anything else...

Nothing wrong with this disc...

Not so sure about the pads though, one had a smearing on it (looked like a clay surface) and both were glazed...after a bit of sanding they were left looking like this:

Do these look normal or not? I've only ever seen used pads that are near the end of their life (well shagged), these are missing about 1mm or 2mm.

I didn't get pictures of the other side cos I ran out of time however the other disc wasn't as nice, it had some very slight scoring but also some patches of deposits.

Although I'm still not 100% convinced about the condition of the pads I think I'll put this "problem" down to bedding in. These brakes came off the blue M3 I wrote off but but but (and here it comes), the front left disc was a brand new item (the original was munched in the crash) and now I think of it, I don't recall bedding in the brakes as it was absolutely pissing it down when I collected the car. Seems to make sense, the disc thats in the worse condition is the one that wasn't bedded in properly...

ah well live and learn. Whilst I had them apart I checked and sure enough the pads I use on the evo alcon kit are the exact same as these. So I'll probably move over to using carbotech pads anyway as they work fine for me on the evo and its easier to only carry one type of spare.

billy-m3cutters · 18-10-2010, 12:54 PM

Heard good things about rs29s and carbotechs pads I don't think IMO any of them are better than each other.

It's always down to bedding in to determine your going to get the best out of your brakes.

I'm running d2 bbk exact same as k-sports and standard pads are nothing great although brake pedal is still better than standard. But will be looking to purchase carbotech pads myself.

GL Titan.

Pip1968 · 19-10-2010, 07:26 PM

[quote=titan;69570]Although I'm still not 100% convinced about the condition of the pads I think I'll put this "problem" down to bedding in. These brakes came off the blue M3 I wrote off but but but (and here it comes), the front left disc was a brand new item (the original was munched in the crash) and now I think of it, I don't recall bedding in the brakes as it was absolutely pissing it down when I collected the car. Seems to make sense, the disc thats in the worse condition is the one that wasn't bedded in properly...
[quote]

Titan, surely this also part of the problem. I may have got the wrong end of the stick but surely running a set up with one new disc and one old will also cause disparity and problems with bedding in and performance.

Pip

**AlexGTT** · 19-10-2010, 07:48 PM

[quote=Pip1968;69953][quote=titan;69570]Although I'm still not 100% convinced about the condition of the pads I think I'll put this "problem" down to bedding in. These brakes came off the blue M3 I wrote off but but but (and here it comes), the front left disc was a brand new item (the original was munched in the crash) and now I think of it, I don't recall bedding in the brakes as it was absolutely pissing it down when I collected the car. Seems to make sense, the disc thats in the worse condition is the one that wasn't bedded in properly...

Quote:

Titan, surely this also part of the problem. I may have got the wrong end of the stick but surely running a set up with one new disc and one old will also cause disparity and problems with bedding in and performance.

Pip

Indeed.

This is a basic rule with anything brake related. For that matter, even suspension/shocker related.

titan · 19-10-2010, 09:32 PM

True, but depends on what you call an "old disc".

In my case, the "old" disc and pads had seen just 500 motorway miles. They were untouched. Whilst the LH disc was damaged and clearly needed replacing, you'd have a hard time convincing anyone about the RH disc - it looked brand new !

Anyhow, its neither here nor there in the big scheme of things. The typical worst case scenario in cases like these is that you have to chuck both new discs and pads at the car, but in doing so you restore everything to brand new goodness

titan · 24-02-2011, 01:04 AM

Right think I've sussed the problem of the vibration and dodgy brake disc.

The evidence:

1. With the CSL wheels on the car the problem is there and gets worse.
2. Change to other wheels the problem lessens and with enough driving goes away.
3. Simpson measured the runouts on the discs and whilst a little off, said it was minor.
4. When the garage changed my tyres they asked if I knew one of the wheels had been welded/repaired..you'll never guess which one...

I haven't had the csl wheels on the car for a while now and all braking shudders/noises and disc smearing has gone away, same discs and pads. I'm 95% sure that if I refitted the csl wheels it would come back.

So, one can only assume the csl wheel is twisted in some way so that under braking its putting uneven force/wobble into the disc which leads to crappyness.

The ultimate test will come on Friday where I'll get the brakes cooking on a trackday. If it comes back with heat I'll have to assume the pads aren't right for me, but suspect it won't. Plenty people run RS29s without issue.

**AlexGTT** · 24-02-2011, 01:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by titan

Right think I've sussed the problem of the vibration and dodgy brake disc.

The evidence:

1. With the CSL wheels on the car the problem is there and gets worse.
2. Change to other wheels the problem lessens and with enough driving goes away.
3. Simpson measured the runouts on the discs and whilst a little off, said it was minor.
4. When the garage changed my tyres they asked if I knew one of the wheels had been welded/repaired..you'll never guess which one...

I haven't had the csl wheels on the car for a while now and all braking shudders/noises and disc smearing has gone away, same discs and pads. I'm 95% sure that if I refitted the csl wheels it would come back.

So, one can only assume the csl wheel is twisted in some way so that under braking its putting uneven force/wobble into the disc which leads to crappyness.

The ultimate test will come on Friday where I'll get the brakes cooking on a trackday. If it comes back with heat I'll have to assume the pads aren't right for me, but suspect it won't. Plenty people run RS29s without issue.

Makes sense and glad you (probably) have found the issue.

You will be fine with RS29's.

titan · 27-02-2011, 02:34 AM

Well, got to Oulton with perfectly quiet brakes, no smearing on the discs, no issues.

After 5 laps or so they get hot and start to become noisy as well as producing vibration. Cooling off helped a little but ultimately thats the way they stay for the rest of the day.

The drive back and some gentle cold braking has put them back to rights, this was not possible with the CSL wheels on, so that was definitely an issue, however I'm not happy with the pads results when hot.

I went out with a guy in the previous gen M3 on slicks, same pads and his did exactly the same.

I've now swapped them out for the carbotech XP10s and have a double trackday weekend coming up so here's hoping :-)

On the evo (exact same alcon brake kit at the front) I never had any issues and could stay out on track until i ran out of fuel or fainted (always the former in the evo ;-) ) Sure the evo is a bit lighter (1340Kg vs 1450Kg), but it also has to stop from a much greater speed due to its huge power, so its comparable.

I'll report back because I know you all care deeply about this issue and await a report with held breath ;-)

16-10-2010, 06:37 PM	#33
titan S5 - Full Throttle Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 268 Casino cash: $1363	Righto, got around to having a wee look at the brakes. I gave them a very quick sanding with light grit, more to remove the rust than anything else... Nothing wrong with this disc... Not so sure about the pads though, one had a smearing on it (looked like a clay surface) and both were glazed...after a bit of sanding they were left looking like this: Do these look normal or not? I've only ever seen used pads that are near the end of their life (well shagged), these are missing about 1mm or 2mm. I didn't get pictures of the other side cos I ran out of time however the other disc wasn't as nice, it had some very slight scoring but also some patches of deposits. Although I'm still not 100% convinced about the condition of the pads I think I'll put this "problem" down to bedding in. These brakes came off the blue M3 I wrote off but but but (and here it comes), the front left disc was a brand new item (the original was munched in the crash) and now I think of it, I don't recall bedding in the brakes as it was absolutely pissing it down when I collected the car. Seems to make sense, the disc thats in the worse condition is the one that wasn't bedded in properly... ah well live and learn. Whilst I had them apart I checked and sure enough the pads I use on the evo alcon kit are the exact same as these. So I'll probably move over to using carbotech pads anyway as they work fine for me on the evo and its easier to only carry one type of spare.

18-10-2010, 12:54 PM	#34
billy-m3cutters S2 - Picking it up Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 53 Casino cash: $928	Heard good things about rs29s and carbotechs pads I don't think IMO any of them are better than each other. It's always down to bedding in to determine your going to get the best out of your brakes. I'm running d2 bbk exact same as k-sports and standard pads are nothing great although brake pedal is still better than standard. But will be looking to purchase carbotech pads myself. GL Titan.

19-10-2010, 07:26 PM	#35
Pip1968 S5, Sport Off, DSC M-track Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Kent, England Posts: 940 Casino cash: $8383	[quote=titan;69570]Although I'm still not 100% convinced about the condition of the pads I think I'll put this "problem" down to bedding in. These brakes came off the blue M3 I wrote off but but but (and here it comes), the front left disc was a brand new item (the original was munched in the crash) and now I think of it, I don't recall bedding in the brakes as it was absolutely pissing it down when I collected the car. Seems to make sense, the disc thats in the worse condition is the one that wasn't bedded in properly... [quote] Titan, surely this also part of the problem. I may have got the wrong end of the stick but surely running a set up with one new disc and one old will also cause disparity and problems with bedding in and performance. Pip

19-10-2010, 09:32 PM	#37
titan S5 - Full Throttle Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 268 Casino cash: $1363	True, but depends on what you call an "old disc". In my case, the "old" disc and pads had seen just 500 motorway miles. They were untouched. Whilst the LH disc was damaged and clearly needed replacing, you'd have a hard time convincing anyone about the RH disc - it looked brand new ! Anyhow, its neither here nor there in the big scheme of things. The typical worst case scenario in cases like these is that you have to chuck both new discs and pads at the car, but in doing so you restore everything to brand new goodness

24-02-2011, 01:04 AM	#38
titan S5 - Full Throttle Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 268 Casino cash: $1363	Right think I've sussed the problem of the vibration and dodgy brake disc. The evidence: 1. With the CSL wheels on the car the problem is there and gets worse. 2. Change to other wheels the problem lessens and with enough driving goes away. 3. Simpson measured the runouts on the discs and whilst a little off, said it was minor. 4. When the garage changed my tyres they asked if I knew one of the wheels had been welded/repaired..you'll never guess which one... I haven't had the csl wheels on the car for a while now and all braking shudders/noises and disc smearing has gone away, same discs and pads. I'm 95% sure that if I refitted the csl wheels it would come back. So, one can only assume the csl wheel is twisted in some way so that under braking its putting uneven force/wobble into the disc which leads to crappyness. The ultimate test will come on Friday where I'll get the brakes cooking on a trackday. If it comes back with heat I'll have to assume the pads aren't right for me, but suspect it won't. Plenty people run RS29s without issue.

27-02-2011, 02:34 AM	#40
titan S5 - Full Throttle Join Date: Aug 2010 Posts: 268 Casino cash: $1363	Well, got to Oulton with perfectly quiet brakes, no smearing on the discs, no issues. After 5 laps or so they get hot and start to become noisy as well as producing vibration. Cooling off helped a little but ultimately thats the way they stay for the rest of the day. The drive back and some gentle cold braking has put them back to rights, this was not possible with the CSL wheels on, so that was definitely an issue, however I'm not happy with the pads results when hot. I went out with a guy in the previous gen M3 on slicks, same pads and his did exactly the same. I've now swapped them out for the carbotech XP10s and have a double trackday weekend coming up so here's hoping :-) On the evo (exact same alcon brake kit at the front) I never had any issues and could stay out on track until i ran out of fuel or fainted (always the former in the evo ;-) ) Sure the evo is a bit lighter (1340Kg vs 1450Kg), but it also has to stop from a much greater speed due to its huge power, so its comparable. I'll report back because I know you all care deeply about this issue and await a report with held breath ;-)