Couple of pics of the toys

[Andyk]

Like it The GT2 certainly has a bit of a reputation....where as you always hope your wife hasn't.

[dave1]

Originally Posted by GT TWO

Ouch that makes me cringe.

Did you skillfully manouver you way out of it?

yes mate i was talking to a guy of the mlr (evo owners club) he was importing a car for me at the time,so i said it was lads banter and that i was bigging up my holiday to wind him up! lol women are so gullible oops better change my password again lol

[XPorker]

I'll wade in here

Having recently sold the 996 GT2 I had for 18 months and covered some 17K miles in (and kept shiny side up) I'd like to make a few observations.

The GT2 is IMO a massively overated car around which quite a few urban myths have grown up around !

Let me add before I go any further I'm not a track day junkie so all my observations are based on "quickish" road use. I'm no "driving god" either

The CSL is a lot more useable and it's performance a lot more accessable.The noise it makes is 5X better than that of the GT2 (standard exhaust)

The GT2 on the right road is a superb weapon, but in my experience the opportunities to use the car on the UKs roads are now few and far between. In short the CSL can be enjoyed more of the time.

Having driven the CSL on some of the best roads in Southern France I'd say the GT2 really would have been found wanting and wouldn't have seen which way the CSL went.
For all the GT2s undoubted power and torque it's a flawed car on anything other than smooth flowing roads. It's power delivery and chassis characteristics are not well balanced for hooning in the manner I enjoy, and to that end both the 996 MK1 GT3 and 997GT3 with their naturally aspirated engines are FAR superior cars (IMO)

Driving through the Gorge du Verdon and up the Col de Turini the CSL with it's longish travel and compliant (compared with the GT2s short travel, and hard) suspension and superb SMG gearbox was peerless
(for those that have driven up and down the Turini you'll know why the SMG box is just soooo good !)

At between £25 -30K the CSL is a performance bargain at the moment IMO. That it's so practical too only adds to its desireability IMO.

If all this sounds like a vendetta against the GT2 it's not, the GT2 is a car that left the factory somewhat hamstrung by the bean counters and thus somewhat underdeveloped when compared with the MK1 GT3 (which was properly honed by the Motorsport division) and the 997 GT3 (which took the whole 911 "game" to a different and far better level)
To that end if you've driven a 997 GT3 and 996 GT2 back to back you'll see just how wanting the old cars chassis dynamics are
The GT2 has it's place, it's ballistically quick on fast flowing roads and will leave even quickish bikers scratching their heads ! But the majority of the time I found its suspension just too flawed to make it a really good point to point cross country car.

In time I'm sure values of the GT2 will start to creep upwards, and in ten years they'll be seen for what they are (the last electronically unfettered GT car Porsche built) rather like the 964 RS. Quite where the CSL will be value wise remains to be seen. . . .

[GT TWO]

Originally Posted by XPorker

I'll wade in here

Having recently sold the 996 GT2 I had for 18 months and covered some 17K miles in (and kept shiny side up) I'd like to make a few observations.

The GT2 is IMO a massively overated car around which quite a few urban myths have grown up around !

Let me add before I go any further I'm not a track day junkie so all my observations are based on "quickish" road use. I'm no "driving god" either

The CSL is a lot more useable and it's performance a lot more accessable.The noise it makes is 5X better than that of the GT2 (standard exhaust)

The GT2 on the right road is a superb weapon, but in my experience the opportunities to use the car on the UKs roads are now few and far between. In short the CSL can be enjoyed more of the time.

Having driven the CSL on some of the best roads in Southern France I'd say the GT2 really would have been found wanting and wouldn't have seen which way the CSL went.
For all the GT2s undoubted power and torque it's a flawed car on anything other than smooth flowing roads. It's power delivery and chassis characteristics are not well balanced for hooning in the manner I enjoy, and to that end both the 996 MK1 GT3 and 997GT3 with their naturally aspirated engines are FAR superior cars (IMO)

Driving through the Gorge du Verdon and up the Col de Turini the CSL with it's longish travel and compliant (compared with the GT2s short travel, and hard) suspension and superb SMG gearbox was peerless
(for those that have driven up and down the Turini you'll know why the SMG box is just soooo good !)

At between £25 -30K the CSL is a performance bargain at the moment IMO. That it's so practical too only adds to its desireability IMO.

If all this sounds like a vendetta against the GT2 it's not, the GT2 is a car that left the factory somewhat hamstrung by the bean counters and thus somewhat underdeveloped when compared with the MK1 GT3 (which was properly honed by the Motorsport division) and the 997 GT3 (which took the whole 911 "game" to a different and far better level)
To that end if you've driven a 997 GT3 and 996 GT2 back to back you'll see just how wanting the old cars chassis dynamics are
The GT2 has it's place, it's ballistically quick on fast flowing roads and will leave even quickish bikers scratching their heads ! But the majority of the time I found its suspension just too flawed to make it a really good point to point cross country car.

In time I'm sure values of the GT2 will start to creep upwards, and in ten years they'll be seen for what they are (the last electronically unfettered GT car Porsche built) rather like the 964 RS. Quite where the CSL will be value wise remains to be seen. . . .

'Pretty much' spot on with my thoughts Xporker.

Did you have your GT2 geo'd?

In contrast to you I do track days and this is where the GT2 comes into its own. You can also drive it quick on 'good' UK roads if set up correctly. It is a very adjustable car and as you say its 'hampered' in its OEM form.

Not a lot can touch it for straight line speed but as I said earlier its far more unforgiving than the CSL.

I have driven extensively the 997 GT3 and RS and if a 996 GT2 is setup correctly they will handle very similarly but the GT2 has more power.

The 996 is let down by its interior compared to the 997 but thats evolution.

As for the sound, there is not much to compare with a CSL sound IMO. A Gallardo with tubi has to be up there as does a Carrera GT.

Thats why I have a tubi

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c94tZTF0D7Y

a pal helped make this video

[dave1]

quality vid

[karbonkid]

What a fleet of sick cars! Love the GT2 plate. Mad1!

[XPorker]

Originally Posted by GT TWO

'Pretty much' spot on with my thoughts Xporker.

Did you have your GT2 geo'd?

Now that IS a red rag to a bull !!!!

But yes I did have it geo'd
(I consider myself the worlds leading authority on GT2 geo now actually)

JZ M*chtech did it twice (after they'd f*cked it up the first time)

Fearnsport did it twice (an excellent bunch of lads who drastically improved it)

Mike at Sports and Classic further improved it.

Finally Chris Franklin at CG honed it to perfection.

Having finally got it set up properly I rapidly discovered the shortcomings of the standard suspension and its geo settings.

I've been passengered in a GT2 with Moton Club Sport suspension, it transformed the car (as you'll be aware the standard Bilsteins that Porsche fitted are the cheapest sh*ttiest dampers available. The Motons made the car so much more compliant and planted.
It's so annoying that what was a £120k car (new)was allowed out of development with such useless suspension.

We'll have to agree to differ on the 997 GT3 Vs 996 GT2 handling front.
The 997 GT3 bodyshell has almost forty percent more flexural strength than that of the 996 (and is 8% stiffer torsionally)

Drive a 996 GT2 with standard suspension along an undulating and poorly surfaced (not badly surfaced) road and you'll feel two things.

Firstly the standard dampers and springs are totally at odds with each other (front dampers too stiff, rear dampers too soft) but also that the 996 "platform" (bodyshell) twists torsionally and in flexure.

The problem is that the dampers and springs don't have a sufficiently stable platform to function from.

Drive the same section of road in a 997 GT3 and the "platform" is so much stiffer with no obvious torsional flexing or lack of flexural stiffness. Quite simply the dampers actually control the wheels as opposed to fighting a losing battle with a bodyshell that doesn't provide the stiffness to allow them to function as theywere intended.

IMO the Moton equipped 996 GT2 I passengered in didn't address the inherent issue with the 996 chassis it merely masked it with top quality damping and a vastly better choice of spring and damper rates !

Sound wise the CSL takes some beating. I think it's as near to a DTM car of the late 80s and early nineties as you'll ever get !

Driven back to back the GT2 made the CSL feel like a stunned slug (sorry) driven in isolation however the CSL is more than quick enough.
I just wish someone would have the balls to cast a few 3.8 litre blocks for a 410-420hp NA conversion !! Then I'd stop hankering for another 997 GT3.

[GT TWO]

XPorker, you certainly went to some lengths to get your GT2 how you wanted it.

Chris at Centre of Gravity knows his stuff for sure.

The 997 GT3 is no doubt a better car than the 996 GT2. I wanted a GT2 as I wanted a big power extreme modern Porsche. I used to have a 996tt which was far too soft for my liking so the GT2 was a natural progression.

At this time the GT3RS was too expensive for me but for sure now my next car will be a 997 GT3 or RS as I completely agree that the car is close to Porsche perfection.

I have done nearly 15k in this Porsche and loved every minute of it, but I dont think it is a keeper for me whereas the CSL is.

On the subject of Motons, I have been in several race cars with Moton and if I was going to buy a setup for a track car I would look here first. I had KWv3 on my previous Z3 M Coupe and I thought that they were awesome until I went out in an E30 M3 with a Moton setup.

Incidentally some of the US guys have used the parts of the 997 GT3 suspension to further improve the 996GT2 setup and apparently had great results.

For my level of driving the GT2 is plenty good enough and still puts a very big smile on my face

[XPorker]

My 996 MK1 GT3 was transformed from a "hedge seeking missile" into a superb and stable fast road car with a properly set up chassis.

It never ceases to amaze me the amount of people who underestimate just how critical geo set up is on any quick car. (That's not aimed at anyone on here !)

It's not like the adjustability isn't built in ! so why not set it up exactly as its makers intended ? The differences a proper geo adjustment made even to my 140,000 mile 330D Sport are just night and day !

Increased corner speeds and extra confidence can cost a fortune in the form of uprated suspension and driver tuition, yet a properly carried out geo, corner weight and ride height adjustment transforms any quick car, increases tyre life, and in the case of the GT2 (with 24 inches of rubber on the rear) dare I say it, increases fuel consumption !
But joking aside my GT2 was running with excessive toe in on the rear. Set to the correct factory settings it felt like it had gained another 30-40 hp with the reduced scrubbing across the rear tyres !!

[dave1]

my toys not quite as flash but the rush is the same lol!


[url=http://g.imageshack.us/img217/dsc00207pt4.jpg/1/][IMG]http://img217.imageshack.us/img217/dsc00207pt4.jpg/1/w800