Air Box, what's that all about? - Page 6

NZ_M3 · 12-03-2013, 10:49 PM

The ALMS PTG P54 in one spec claims to have 450hp ... Not sure how many running hours before a rebuild however - and they had a budget of millions. That motor is for sale if you ever wanted to find out how they did it.

The Gorilla · 12-03-2013, 11:13 PM

Hi,

I should have added that once you start
using the Higher lift cams then the
Vanos is no longer able to work correctly
so you will have to delete the Vanos,
unless you fit the MS Vanos at approx
circa 10k, and its a time /hour rated part.

Its always a good indicator that if a N/A S54
still has std Vanos fitted then its almost
impossible for a 4 0r 9 to figure in the
alleged BHP number.

You can run the MS S54 CSL DME with the
Vanos Deleted.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

_Nathan_ · 12-03-2013, 11:30 PM

KMS in holland would disagree with that, they do a nice big valve head engine with an alledged 4 in the number which still runs vanos.

**shimmy** · 12-03-2013, 11:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by _Nathan_

KMS in holland would disagree with that, they do a nice big valve head engine with an alledged 4 in the number which still runs vanos.

394?

shane@mbtech · 12-03-2013, 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Gorilla

Hi,

I should have added that once you start
using the Higher lift cams then the
Vanos is no longer able to work correctly
so you will have to delete the Vanos,
unless you fit the MS Vanos at approx
circa 10k, and its a time /hour rated part.

Its always a good indicator that if a N/A S54
still has std Vanos fitted then its almost
impossible for a 4 0r 9 to figure in the
alleged BHP number.

You can run the MS S54 CSL DME with the
Vanos Deleted.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

Taking the wild-ish shrick cams 288 280 with 14mm lift, and re-profiling the cam, can give good results, so I am led to believe. Giving decent valve overlap. Granted not ideal for below 4500 rpm, but who buys a csl to potter about.

Bounce · 13-03-2013, 12:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Gorilla

Hi,

I should have added that once you start
using the Higher lift cams then the
Vanos is no longer able to work correctly
so you will have to delete the Vanos,
unless you fit the MS Vanos at approx
circa 10k, and its a time /hour rated part.

Its always a good indicator that if a N/A S54
still has std Vanos fitted then its almost
impossible for a 4 0r 9 to figure in the
alleged BHP number.

You can run the MS S54 CSL DME with the
Vanos Deleted.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

I was thinking the same.

The Gorilla · 13-03-2013, 12:34 AM

Hi,

Quote-'KMS in holland would disagree with that, they do a nice big valve head engine with an alledged 4 in the number which still runs vanos.

Nathan-Do you mean KMS VanKronenburg,
or KMS Race Engines [sic] ?

Vankroneburg does not run Vanos and there
new DME is still in development which
will do Variable Cam.

KMS Race Engines use Pectel SQ6. so
variable Cam not a problem but even
with the std Vanos fully Optmised [std CSL is not] can not
see how it would/can function correctly
with High lift cams.

Lawsy- SMG Gearbox and engine unwilling
to pull/rev much below 4500 rpm, not sure
how well that would work in a CSL ?
Bet you would have more than clutch
slur in a very short time!
Fine with a proper sequential or Manual
out on Track but would not be
for me with SMG II ala CSL.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

shane@mbtech · 13-03-2013, 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Gorilla

Hi,

Quote-'KMS in holland would disagree with that, they do a nice big valve head engine with an alledged 4 in the number which still runs vanos.

Nathan-Do you mean KMS VanKronenburg,
or KMS Race Engines [sic] ?

Vankroneburg does not run Vanos and there
new DME is still in development which
will do Variable Cam.

KMS Race Engines use Pectel SQ6. so
variable Cam not a problem but even
with the std Vanos fully Optmised [std CSL is not] can not
see how it would/can function correctly
with High lift cams.

Lawsy- SMG Gearbox and engine unwilling
to pull/rev much below 4500 rpm, not sure
how well that would work in a CSL ?
Bet you would have more than clutch
slur in a very short time!
Fine with a proper sequential or Manual
out on Track but would not be
for me with SMG II ala CSL.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

Probably correct, but I was just talking engine G man.

PS where is this pump going to, I keep tripping over it in the workshop.

_Nathan_ · 13-03-2013, 12:53 AM

KMS race engines, got one on MoTeC M600.

The Gorilla · 13-03-2013, 11:47 AM

Hi,

Lawsy- I missunderstood as you said,
''Granted not ideal for below 4500 rpm, but who buys a csl to potter about.

But taking it a bit further the S54 Vanos spread
ie] variable, at 5000 rpm to say 8200 is very, very small
so if you spend say a lot of the time on Track
at 5000 rpm and above, which ''this'' engine
requires, and which most do,
[different point same subject]
the Vanos does nothing for you except be
extra weight, and somerthing else to go
wrong.

I think people also forget that the Vanos takes
its drive from the Oil Pressure so your also
reducing potential top end oiling issues.
ie] one less outlet.

Will PM address for part as Guy still
not back. Thanks.

Nathan- Kempower also offer Higher Lift Cams
with std S54 Vanos, I can put you in touch with
a couple of Guys who went down that route and
are rebuilding there motors due to Vanos.
Do not know the full S/P but in both cases related to
coming off the throttle at full lift and then
back on again very quickly, at full
oil temp.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

12-03-2013, 11:30 PM	#53
_Nathan_ Driving it like I nicked it Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 2,099 Casino cash: $13060	KMS in holland would disagree with that, they do a nice big valve head engine with an alledged 4 in the number which still runs vanos. __________________ Nathan

13-03-2013, 12:53 AM	#59
_Nathan_ Driving it like I nicked it Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 2,099 Casino cash: $13060	KMS race engines, got one on MoTeC M600. __________________ Nathan

12-03-2013, 10:49 PM	#51
NZ_M3 S5, Sport On, DSC M-track Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Auckland, New Zealand Posts: 1,434 Casino cash: $13579	The ALMS PTG P54 in one spec claims to have 450hp ... Not sure how many running hours before a rebuild however - and they had a budget of millions. That motor is for sale if you ever wanted to find out how they did it.

12-03-2013, 11:13 PM	#52
The Gorilla S5, Sport Off, DSC M-track Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 740 Casino cash: $14401	Hi, I should have added that once you start using the Higher lift cams then the Vanos is no longer able to work correctly so you will have to delete the Vanos, unless you fit the MS Vanos at approx circa 10k, and its a time /hour rated part. Its always a good indicator that if a N/A S54 still has std Vanos fitted then its almost impossible for a 4 0r 9 to figure in the alleged BHP number. You can run the MS S54 CSL DME with the Vanos Deleted. Regards, The Gorilla.

13-03-2013, 12:34 AM	#57
The Gorilla S5, Sport Off, DSC M-track Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 740 Casino cash: $14401	Hi, Quote-'KMS in holland would disagree with that, they do a nice big valve head engine with an alledged 4 in the number which still runs vanos. Nathan-Do you mean KMS VanKronenburg, or KMS Race Engines [sic] ? Vankroneburg does not run Vanos and there new DME is still in development which will do Variable Cam. KMS Race Engines use Pectel SQ6. so variable Cam not a problem but even with the std Vanos fully Optmised [std CSL is not] can not see how it would/can function correctly with High lift cams. Lawsy- SMG Gearbox and engine unwilling to pull/rev much below 4500 rpm, not sure how well that would work in a CSL ? Bet you would have more than clutch slur in a very short time! Fine with a proper sequential or Manual out on Track but would not be for me with SMG II ala CSL. Regards, The Gorilla.

13-03-2013, 11:47 AM	#60
The Gorilla S5, Sport Off, DSC M-track Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 740 Casino cash: $14401	Hi, Lawsy- I missunderstood as you said, ''Granted not ideal for below 4500 rpm, but who buys a csl to potter about. But taking it a bit further the S54 Vanos spread ie] variable, at 5000 rpm to say 8200 is very, very small so if you spend say a lot of the time on Track at 5000 rpm and above, which ''this'' engine requires, and which most do, [different point same subject] the Vanos does nothing for you except be extra weight, and somerthing else to go wrong. I think people also forget that the Vanos takes its drive from the Oil Pressure so your also reducing potential top end oiling issues. ie] one less outlet. Will PM address for part as Guy still not back. Thanks. Nathan- Kempower also offer Higher Lift Cams with std S54 Vanos, I can put you in touch with a couple of Guys who went down that route and are rebuilding there motors due to Vanos. Do not know the full S/P but in both cases related to coming off the throttle at full lift and then back on again very quickly, at full oil temp. Regards, The Gorilla.