Interesting read...GTS content

[Trawler]

Unfortunately I agree with Matt that the letter 'M' now stands for everything other than Motorsport. I also think the typical BMW punter sees the M cars as the halo models and are not interested in a car that is more driver focused. They just want a M car with all the goodies.*

Take the mrs mini GP for example. I have lost count of the number of people who have asked why did you down grade from the JCW. What they cannot get over is that she has given up sat nav, auto wipers, parking sensors, etc. therefore the car is not as good.*

Yes Ian get rid of all that m sport nonsense as it has devalued the true meaning of M. But it has increased sales. Talk to anyone who has any small part of the m branding on their car and they believe their car is only just short of the real thing.

I hope to be proven wrong about BMW*

[GregorFuk]

I think the crux of the problem is that unlike the Porsche and the 911 all of BMWs hot offerings are based on models that can trace their linnnage back to boggo 3 and 4 series. They are therefore not considered 'proper' ground up sports cars and people baulk at spending the high sums of cash BMW ask for the halo models. There are good reasons Porsche won't let you buy a £20K 2.0L Diesel 911.

If BMW really want to beat Porsche at the GT3 game they need to come out with a model that never offers anything less than M/// levels of performance and moves forwards and upwards from there. The minute you offer the same 'model' car with a 2.0 Diesel you kill it's cache.

BMW had the chance to do this with the i8 but went the hybrid route. Imagine instead if they'd ditched the batteries and put the 4.0 V8 from the E92 M3 in the back of the i8 and called it the M1. They could have then offered a light weight track orientated M1 with the 4.4 V8 from the E92 M3 GTS, called it the M1 GTS.....

[Yanto]

I'm actually not too hung up on the marketing piece. There's not many mainstream manufacturers that don't do it (amg, s-line). It's not for me, but if people feel better for having 'sporty' badges on their car, live and let live as far as I'm concerned. In fact it's funny reading endless threads on 'other' forums slating this and belittling wannabe M car owners (which says a lot about some M car owners ).

Even Ferrari merchandise leaves a lot to be desired.....it prob drives brand awareness and (hopefully in there mind) loyalty early on.

The bigger point is that BMW just can't quite nail it in the same way the Porsche can......and I can't put my finger on why that is ?

[Yanto]

Originally Posted by GregorFuk

I think the crux of the problem is that unlike the Porsche and the 911 all of BMWs hot offerings are based on models that can trace their linnnage back to boggo 3 and 4 series. They are therefore not considered 'proper' ground up sports cars and people baulk at spending the high sums of cash BMW ask for the halo models. There are good reasons Porsche won't let you buy a £20K 2.0L Diesel 911.

If BMW really want to beat Porsche at the GT3 game they need to come out with a model that never offers anything less than M/// levels of performance and moves forwards and upwards from there. The minute you offer the same 'model' car with a 2.0 Diesel you kill it's cache.

BMW had the chance to do this with the i8 but went the hybrid route. Imagine instead if they'd ditched the batteries and put the 4.0 V8 from the E92 M3 in the back of the i8 and called it the M1. They could have then offered a light weight track orientated M1 with the 4.4 V8 from the E92 M3 GTS, called it the M1 GTS.....

Agree with this.

Was reading this thread earlier which argues a different (but related) topic.....

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=1441631

[glendog74]

Originally Posted by Yanto

<sigh> just cross-industry multitasking again mate....it's tough being me

Always so humble Ian - one of your strongest suits

[Trawler]

Originally Posted by Yanto

Agree with this.

Was reading this thread earlier which argues a different (but related) topic.....

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=1441631

Just read the first page then gave up. The mrs loves the look of the R8 over so called super cars

[MarcM]

Originally Posted by GregorFuk

I think the crux of the problem is that unlike the Porsche and the 911 all of BMWs hot offerings are based on models that can trace their linnnage back to boggo 3 and 4 series. They are therefore not considered 'proper' ground up sports cars and people baulk at spending the high sums of cash BMW ask for the halo models. There are good reasons Porsche won't let you buy a £20K 2.0L Diesel 911.

If BMW really want to beat Porsche at the GT3 game they need to come out with a model that never offers anything less than M/// levels of performance and moves forwards and upwards from there. The minute you offer the same 'model' car with a 2.0 Diesel you kill it's cache.

BMW had the chance to do this with the i8 but went the hybrid route. Imagine instead if they'd ditched the batteries and put the 4.0 V8 from the E92 M3 in the back of the i8 and called it the M1. They could have then offered a light weight track orientated M1 with the 4.4 V8 from the E92 M3 GTS, called it the M1 GTS.....

You make a good point. Although the 911 is bankrolled by the cayenne, panamera and the boxster which saved porches bacon.

Bentley, Jag and Aston are all looking to SUV's to make a business case for their sports cars. I'll let Lamborghini off since they made the LM002.

I agree that BMW should have a stand alone performance car

[cslsuperfan]

Originally Posted by MarcM

You make a good point. Although the 911 is bankrolled by the cayenne, panamera and the boxster which saved porches bacon.

Bentley, Jag and Aston are all looking to SUV's to make a business case for their sports cars. I'll let Lamborghini off since they made the LM002.

I agree that BMW should have a stand alone performance car

Back in the day the lacklustre sales of the E46M3 CSL put the mockers on BMW continuing with the E9/E30/E46CSL brands and what they stand for.

[Brandtner]

Originally Posted by cslsuperfan

Back in the day the lacklustre sales of the E46M3 CSL put the mockers on BMW continuing with the E9/E30/E46CSL brands and what they stand for.

This!

[Trawler]

Originally Posted by cslsuperfan

Back in the day the lacklustre sales of the E46M3 CSL put the mockers on BMW continuing with the E9/E30/E46CSL brands and what they stand for.

I believe the sales of the E30 M3 were also poor. I think BMW attract a different customer.