Air Box, what's that all about? - Page 7

**Mike R** · 13-03-2013, 12:15 PM

Very informative posts

.

_Nathan_ · 13-03-2013, 01:19 PM

Danny - not sure on the exact details of the engine build but the map I have in front of me is swinging both cams a fair bit on the RPM axis between 5500 and 8500 and again on the y axis (TP) in that same RPM range.

The Gorilla · 13-03-2013, 02:17 PM

Hi,

Nathan- for sure, but the actual
gains in Power and to a lesser
extent in Torque from 5500
to say 8400 as compared to the
same engine without Vanos
is very, very slight, as if to make
any difference in the real world.

Even though the S54 Vanos is
variable across the whole rev band,
the gains are to an extent are more significant
at the lower end of the rev band,
on a same engine comparission.

Vanos is primarily for emissions.

If you were at somewhere like Mondello then
I could see that on ''std'' Cams the S54 would
benefit from Vanos, but not on longer
duration/lift cams, as the 4500 threshold
would come into play, and then above that
your back to the top.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

_Nathan_ · 13-03-2013, 02:26 PM

I'll find out what cams are in it next time I'm with the car, some big variations in cam angle though.

When I get mine running (standard CSL cams) I'll try and dyno both swinging cams and with the cam position set static through the rev range, be interesting to see the difference in torque curve on the same engine. I'll post up here

I'd love to know the exact differences between p54 and s54 vanos.

Did the p65b40/44 retain vanos?

The Gorilla · 13-03-2013, 04:24 PM

Hi Nathan,

No Vanos on the P65 40 and no
Vanos on the Judd HK LMP2 V8 engine
based on the S65 either.

http://www.engdev.com/products/hk-2011-lmp2-v8/

I believe rightly or wrongly that
BMW retained the Vanos on their
S54/P54 M3 engines as its removal
could have breached certain Regs
and not considered in the spirit
of it, and given the ALMS issues
BMW would not want to stamp on that
ground again to quickly.

It would explain development of an
expensive MS time/hour rated part that
very few would purchase.

Another moot point would have been
a potential backlash regarding
Warranty etc in that the manufacture runs
their ''Race'' engine with No Vanos.

Std CSL cams give very good results when
locked in on the S54 engine, not so much
top end rev happy, but very progressive in
the mid band, from around 3500-7000 ish..

Regards,

The Gorilla.

_Nathan_ · 13-03-2013, 04:58 PM

OK, I'll get the cams to make max power at 8k rpm, set the target angles at those values and run it again to see the difference and get some graphs, we can ignore the exact numbers as it'll only be a chassis dyno but the shapes should tell the story

Only interested in 5.5k to 8k really, with a drenth and paddles there is no excuse for not being in that region.

13-03-2013, 12:15 PM	#61
Mike R S6, Sport On, Traction Off Join Date: Dec 2010 Location: Norwich Posts: 1,585 Casino cash: $17591	Very informative posts . __________________ Mike R Sarcasm is just a free service I provide. Nordschleife, there's only two barriers to worry about - the ones on the left and the ones on the right . CSL number 044

13-03-2013, 01:19 PM	#62
_Nathan_ Driving it like I nicked it Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 2,099 Casino cash: $13060	Danny - not sure on the exact details of the engine build but the map I have in front of me is swinging both cams a fair bit on the RPM axis between 5500 and 8500 and again on the y axis (TP) in that same RPM range. __________________ Nathan

13-03-2013, 02:26 PM	#64
_Nathan_ Driving it like I nicked it Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 2,099 Casino cash: $13060	I'll find out what cams are in it next time I'm with the car, some big variations in cam angle though. When I get mine running (standard CSL cams) I'll try and dyno both swinging cams and with the cam position set static through the rev range, be interesting to see the difference in torque curve on the same engine. I'll post up here I'd love to know the exact differences between p54 and s54 vanos. Did the p65b40/44 retain vanos? __________________ Nathan

13-03-2013, 04:58 PM	#66
_Nathan_ Driving it like I nicked it Join Date: Sep 2008 Posts: 2,099 Casino cash: $13060	OK, I'll get the cams to make max power at 8k rpm, set the target angles at those values and run it again to see the difference and get some graphs, we can ignore the exact numbers as it'll only be a chassis dyno but the shapes should tell the story Only interested in 5.5k to 8k really, with a drenth and paddles there is no excuse for not being in that region. __________________ Nathan

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13-03-2013, 02:17 PM	#63
The Gorilla S5, Sport Off, DSC M-track Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 740 Casino cash: $14401	Hi, Nathan- for sure, but the actual gains in Power and to a lesser extent in Torque from 5500 to say 8400 as compared to the same engine without Vanos is very, very slight, as if to make any difference in the real world. Even though the S54 Vanos is variable across the whole rev band, the gains are to an extent are more significant at the lower end of the rev band, on a same engine comparission. Vanos is primarily for emissions. If you were at somewhere like Mondello then I could see that on ''std'' Cams the S54 would benefit from Vanos, but not on longer duration/lift cams, as the 4500 threshold would come into play, and then above that your back to the top. Regards, The Gorilla.

13-03-2013, 04:24 PM	#65
The Gorilla S5, Sport Off, DSC M-track Join Date: Apr 2008 Posts: 740 Casino cash: $14401	Hi Nathan, No Vanos on the P65 40 and no Vanos on the Judd HK LMP2 V8 engine based on the S65 either. http://www.engdev.com/products/hk-2011-lmp2-v8/ I believe rightly or wrongly that BMW retained the Vanos on their S54/P54 M3 engines as its removal could have breached certain Regs and not considered in the spirit of it, and given the ALMS issues BMW would not want to stamp on that ground again to quickly. It would explain development of an expensive MS time/hour rated part that very few would purchase. Another moot point would have been a potential backlash regarding Warranty etc in that the manufacture runs their ''Race'' engine with No Vanos. Std CSL cams give very good results when locked in on the S54 engine, not so much top end rev happy, but very progressive in the mid band, from around 3500-7000 ish.. Regards, The Gorilla.