SMG/Clutch Issues

bildo · 21-05-2013, 04:35 PM

Hi guys, I'm new here and only a measly M3 owner for now (non-CSL, sorry!) My car is pulling my hair out and since you all seem really knowledgeable I figured I'd ask for your input.

Basically it all started when I had an SMG issue, the car wouldn't go into gear one day. That sorted itself, however from then on the gear changing was REALLY slow. The more throttle I had, the longer it took to get into gear.

I was told to replace the indent springs, followed by the GPT. These were both replaced and whilst the gearbox was out I got the clutch replaced for a new LuK unit too.

Since the sensor change the adaptation can now be carried out (where it failed before), however it's throwing up a fault code on Autologic which is saying that the car has high resistance when going in to odd gears.

I'm completely stumped as to what this could be, with a brand new clutch, GPT and springs I'm not sure what's left? Since there's pressure and no other reason to think it's the pump I'm assuming that's not causing the problem.

Indy has tried talking to Autologic and they're stumped on what it could be too.

Any ideas chaps?

thegingerninja · 21-05-2013, 05:04 PM

Broken clutch release arm and or release bearing.

bildo · 21-05-2013, 05:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thegingerninja

Broken clutch release arm and or release bearing.

Thanks for your response.

Bearing was replaced with the clutch, which has since done 0 miles so I assume it can't be that!

So it definitely points to the release arm then?

bildo · 21-05-2013, 07:46 PM

Ordering a new clutch release arm in a minute, does anyone else have any other suggestions that I can order at the same time?

Neil M · 21-05-2013, 08:17 PM

Just a passing thought, perhaps the software needs upgrading? One for the animals; Giraffe and/or Gorilla!

Monkey · 21-05-2013, 08:46 PM

I'm not sure what a GPT is?! But these gearboxes are prone to the knuckle on the back of the gearshift rod seizing.

Item no 12 on this picture

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...75&hg=25&fg=05

it connects to the gearshift rod at the rear of the gearbox, with a roll pin holding it in place and then a circlip around the outside of it.

I Would check that first.

bildo · 21-05-2013, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neil M

Just a passing thought, perhaps the software needs upgrading? One for the animals; Giraffe and/or Gorilla!

It had the latest SMG software put on a few months back, when I had clutch judder, I also recalibrated the clutch/SMG at this point.

Didn't cure an awful lot, the judder came back with a vengeance which was the reason behind the clutch change.

Hope someone can give a definitive answer, already set back some serious money after having the gearbox out twice along with the sensor and clutch. To have another error that noone seems to really know the answer to is so frustrating!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Monkey

I'm not sure what a GPT is?! But these gearboxes are prone to the knuckle on the back of the gearshift rod seizing.

Item no 12 on this picture

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...75&hg=25&fg=05

it connects to the gearshift rod at the rear of the gearbox, with a roll pin holding it in place and then a circlip around the outside of it.

I Would check that first.

Would that be throwing up an error like this? Is it an easy replacement? The gearbox is off down at the indy at the moment as someone suggested replacing the clutch arm, so I'm trying that.

Would really appreciate any advice whilst the box is out.

GPT is gear position transducer (sensor).

shane@mbtech · 21-05-2013, 09:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bildo

It had the latest SMG software put on a few months back, when I had clutch judder, I also recalibrated the clutch/SMG at this point.

Didn't cure an awful lot, the judder came back with a vengeance which was the reason behind the clutch change.

Hope someone can give a definitive answer, already set back some serious money after having the gearbox out twice along with the sensor and clutch. To have another error that noone seems to really know the answer to is so frustrating!

Would that be throwing up an error like this? Is it an easy replacement? The gearbox is off down at the indy at the moment as someone suggested replacing the clutch arm, so I'm trying that.

Would really appreciate any advice whilst the box is out.

GPT is gear position transducer (sensor).

As monkey has said, this is the likely cause

bildo · 21-05-2013, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lawsy

As monkey has said, this is the likely cause

Sounds promising then! How big of a job is it? Does the box need to be out for it to be done? Not that it matters anyway since it's already out just trying to get an idea.

**cantfind1** · 22-05-2013, 04:24 AM

Gearbox will need to be out to replace the knuckle...However I do not believe this to be your problem...

Knuckle can be taken off and cleaned if you like also clean the pins make sure its smooth and does not bind...If this knuckle was bad your gearbox would not adapt, would usually fall out at gear 4.

You say you have clutch judder..this is caused by the release bearing(doesn't matter how new its is) catching on the sleeve that it slides on...This sleeve should be changed at every clutch change and should also be greased with copper slip or similar. BMW say to keep it dry due to clutch dust mixing with lube and turning into an abrasive, however this does not work in the long run and it is just better to replace the part every clutch change...and lube it. You will then have lightning fast upshifts and downshifts and no judder...even when taking off in second gear from standstill..

Sleeve is part no 1 in this diagram...you will not need to replace parts 3 or 2

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...19&hg=23&fg=15

Also check that this plastic ball pin is not broken part no 6

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...93&hg=21&fg=05

As for problems going into odd gears...which springs were replaced and were any of them broken. There are 3 of them on the SMG box and all will need to be checked or replaced.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...56&hg=23&fg=15

The release bearing sticking on sleeve could also be the culprit here as the clutch will have problems disengaging to allow gears to change..arm will be obvious if broken...as will plastic ball pin.

Has the gearbox oil been changed, if not it should be!

21-05-2013, 04:35 PM	#1
bildo Wonky 'L' after Washing Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 12 Casino cash: $346	SMG/Clutch Issues Hi guys, I'm new here and only a measly M3 owner for now (non-CSL, sorry!) My car is pulling my hair out and since you all seem really knowledgeable I figured I'd ask for your input. Basically it all started when I had an SMG issue, the car wouldn't go into gear one day. That sorted itself, however from then on the gear changing was REALLY slow. The more throttle I had, the longer it took to get into gear. I was told to replace the indent springs, followed by the GPT. These were both replaced and whilst the gearbox was out I got the clutch replaced for a new LuK unit too. Since the sensor change the adaptation can now be carried out (where it failed before), however it's throwing up a fault code on Autologic which is saying that the car has high resistance when going in to odd gears. I'm completely stumped as to what this could be, with a brand new clutch, GPT and springs I'm not sure what's left? Since there's pressure and no other reason to think it's the pump I'm assuming that's not causing the problem. Indy has tried talking to Autologic and they're stumped on what it could be too. Any ideas chaps? Last edited by bildo; 21-05-2013 at 04:53 PM.

21-05-2013, 05:04 PM	#2
thegingerninja S5 - Full Throttle Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Cheshire Posts: 370 Casino cash: $4367	Broken clutch release arm and or release bearing. __________________ Get out of the fucking middle lane! ...and turn off your sodding fog lights too!

21-05-2013, 08:17 PM	#5
Neil M Driving it like I nicked it Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Manchester Posts: 2,340 Casino cash: $19143	Just a passing thought, perhaps the software needs upgrading? One for the animals; Giraffe and/or Gorilla! __________________ “With the CSL, BMW have achieved The Ultimate Driving Machine” SG CSL '051'

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21-05-2013, 07:46 PM	#4
bildo Wonky 'L' after Washing Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 12 Casino cash: $346	Ordering a new clutch release arm in a minute, does anyone else have any other suggestions that I can order at the same time?

21-05-2013, 08:46 PM	#6
Monkey S5 - Full Throttle Join Date: May 2013 Location: Haywards Heath Posts: 266 Casino cash: $7387	I'm not sure what a GPT is?! But these gearboxes are prone to the knuckle on the back of the gearshift rod seizing. Item no 12 on this picture http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...75&hg=25&fg=05 it connects to the gearshift rod at the rear of the gearbox, with a roll pin holding it in place and then a circlip around the outside of it. I Would check that first.

22-05-2013, 04:24 AM	#10
cantfind1 S5, Sport Off, DSC M-track Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Sydney Australia Posts: 675 Casino cash: $6490	Gearbox will need to be out to replace the knuckle...However I do not believe this to be your problem... Knuckle can be taken off and cleaned if you like also clean the pins make sure its smooth and does not bind...If this knuckle was bad your gearbox would not adapt, would usually fall out at gear 4. You say you have clutch judder..this is caused by the release bearing(doesn't matter how new its is) catching on the sleeve that it slides on...This sleeve should be changed at every clutch change and should also be greased with copper slip or similar. BMW say to keep it dry due to clutch dust mixing with lube and turning into an abrasive, however this does not work in the long run and it is just better to replace the part every clutch change...and lube it. You will then have lightning fast upshifts and downshifts and no judder...even when taking off in second gear from standstill.. Sleeve is part no 1 in this diagram...you will not need to replace parts 3 or 2 http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...19&hg=23&fg=15 Also check that this plastic ball pin is not broken part no 6 http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...93&hg=21&fg=05 As for problems going into odd gears...which springs were replaced and were any of them broken. There are 3 of them on the SMG box and all will need to be checked or replaced. http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...56&hg=23&fg=15 The release bearing sticking on sleeve could also be the culprit here as the clutch will have problems disengaging to allow gears to change..arm will be obvious if broken...as will plastic ball pin. Has the gearbox oil been changed, if not it should be!