It had to happen.....
 

I'm hooked.

I need to master the Ring.


Bugger, where can I get a cage?

Slippery scary slope :-D

I think best way is buy one of those caged nova's the locals use lol

That's what I was thinking but that won't last long.:smokin:

I definitely came away happier this time, maybe because i feel i'm getting to know the circuit a bit better. After a lap with Duncan, i'd love to be able to master it properly. It's getting embarrassing being overtaken by other CSL's all the time, i'd love to be able to keep up!

Just need more confidence in the circuit and more confidence in the car's abilities / my own driving.

Seriously considering a jahreskarte for next year.

Or use a mate's car.:thumbs:

:whistle::whistle::whistle::whistle::hahaha::hahah a::thumbs:

I hear Ford Focus Mk.1 are a cheap track slag that you don't mind spanking into the barriers as they are only around £2.5k to replace these days...

I'm no expert Shim (obviously) but isn't it at the point now that you go on the ring in a car you'd lose no sleep over if you spank badly but also confident enough that it it won't shit fluids everywhere and cause an accident ? Caged and stripped newish motor ? Fook knows but unless a DN event, not for CSL now ??

Ant/Julian at Simpson can help - pick up the phone... :whistle:

Forget about the cage just get some balls............ boy :blalalala:

T$

I'm afraid in my case the two are not mutually exclusive :smokin:

Incurable disease till the money out.;)

:hahaha: :hahaha: :hahaha: Ditto :smokin:

Sell you a nice caged 328i? :P

Im hooked too Shim:drool:

I am aiming for a sub 8 min lap next visit. Done an 8.10 btg this visit, with passenger and bit of traffic too. And it was only my second visit. Approx 18 laps under my belt now.

The place is fucking mega, already looking for next trip:whistle:

I will sell my balls to be able to do one lap :drool: the closest I will ever get is Playstation...

Lawsy, keep me in the loop, i'm keen to get out again. Don't think i'll be hitting a sub 8 lap mind!

+1 :supz:

Ok, for all you Ring Masters, I need some clarification.

7.50 is the Full Lap official time and mos say bTG looses 20 secs so 7.30 would be official BTG target time.

My experience tells me 2-3 secs per minute is the difference between me driving a circuit well and the best time possible by an experienced and fast drivers which would mean 7.30 becomes 7.46 to 7.54 as a time I should be able to get when on the ball. Now I'm guessing as it is so fast and flowing, this will be a greater difference so probably a good target would be 8.00 as Lawsy says.


Now how does this stand with you Ring boys. Do any of you travel on a 8.00minute lap pace BTG, Curly, T$, Alex, Rob, Matt, Oneill, Dunc, Avevo And the rest?

done a 8.05 clear track BTG ( on V3's not clubsports ) so better for the ring, was dry and on cups .. thats the best ive done, the weekend rob/alex/me were ring taxi chasing, so in traffic playing around with the taxi, we were doing 8.10's / 8.15's I think ..

Crikey, I am miles behind with 8.38 being my best time in dry with traffic but nothing enough to make an excuse of. I know some of my loss of time is now being ballsy enough at Schwedenkreuz, Fuchsrohre and the fifth gear bend L after Kesselchen.

Pip :bigcry:

Ps. I'll get my coat.

my car takes 28 seconds to get from bridge to gantry.... I don't think Rob was 8 seconds faster as I was up his chuff by T13 again

25 is more accurate I think, sorry to be pedantic and move the goalposts slightly:birdman:

7:25 target less big cahoonas racedriver advantage....

Shim, as Daz said I expect most of my laps on TF days are in and around 8.05-8.15 on reasonable traffic laps.

My best so far is an 8.00 flat. Done on a deserted November weekday TF. There was zero traffic and no yellows all day. To be honest, for me it was as quick as I feel comfortable going without cage,etc. I believe the Ring is that kind of place where some people are prepared to press harder and others find their comfort zone. I could push harder but don't and enjoy it more than chasing times. The vbox just opens up a new element of studying lines and keeping the memories in the form of video has reinvigorated my passion for the place.

On Dest Nurb trip this time my best on vbox was 8.25 which accounting for having to go slow through old pits was adding an average of 15 seconds, it was a rough 8.10. It was an out lap and not flying, so fairly representative of a BTG lap and is about the same as my usual TF laps. I kept BTG timing up on vbox because of old pit cut through.

Knowing you and the way you drive I'd say your easily aiming at sub 8 min quite quickly. I think your best bet is to gain lap experience at a quiet time. I'm aiming to do my usual November trip for weekday laps. Lottery with weather but it's honestly the best laps I ever get in more than 5 years at the place.

Hmmmm... You always seem to be quick through the early part of the lap through Hatzenbach and onto Kallenhard but i begin to pull away from Fuchsrohre on. ;) :smt055

I think i am around 8 min dead with a quiet track, 8m15s or so with traffic - all BTG.

Your target shim, curly

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OtAPP-8tGo

nice lap:smokin: held up a bit too , whats with the gaffa tape on the dash? is it holding it together?:hahaha:

Was Waitrose shutting early? :smokin:

Some interesting data here. Three CSL's, MKI and MKII 996 GT3, Z3M Coupe.

http://www.northloop.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?16016-GPS-Speed-map-of-the-Ring&highlight=TIMES

wow, now if i ever do the Ring that will keep me up at nights! :thumbs:

Wasn't Gaute a member on here?

appearance is the main thing:smokin:

my best is 8:06 BTG on a flying lap (in my car:whistle:) bigger cahoonas required for a better time, and new tyres too

http://i453.photobucket.com/albums/q...s/photo-45.jpg

Only just scrubbed in Jim.:smokin:

Shim, my 8.10 was a quick lap, but due to my inexperience there, there were parts where I backed off when I shouldnt have, backed off where in Duncs car I didnt have to. I got held up in bits of traffic, had soft springs bottoming out on inner arches and passenger too.

I know it seems like racing excuses, but I know my limits, I know the CSL's limits, and I was nowhere near either of them. It was my 15th lap of the place so I wasnt driving at near full tilt.

I seriously think that I would hit a 7.50 btg, under 8 quite easily in a well set-up CSL on my next visit.



Question is... do you have the balls to try?

Fuck me jim, they are damn near slicks, no wonder you were flying:smokin:

Shimmy its a slippery slope, you know your car very well indeed, but you need to learn the track... and that is the thing which will hold you back- are you willing to spend the time and money learning it? without getting too carried away and binning it?

that last trip put me off TF days a lot- I felt it was quite dangerous out there over the weekend:bigcry: but trackdays are the expensive way ahead:beer:




if only they gripped like cups or slicks tho:bigcry:

Cheers Jim

I've got a few things to decide before I engage first gear including

What car
Cage
TF and or TD
Let alone what bank to rob first


My natural driving is reserved and always within my limits, which doesn't preclude mishaps but starts in the right way. I won't get up to any sort of speed in 15 laps like Lawsy, more like 100 laps so I need to be looking at 10 visits and prob 3 years.

Biggest question if I do it is do I went/buy a shitter to cover the first year or do I cage the CSL and leave it over there?

My first visit there was very daunting. Shit myself in many respects, but I think most of that was down to scaremongering.

This visit I went out with Duncan, same car obviously and he taught me loads, I then took Jim out and he taught me loads too, Jim knows my ability (or lack of) in a CSL so I trusted his judgement in what he was telling me to do. I owe most of my quick learning to them 2 lovely chaps:beer:, duncan and Jim where like my very own Yodas.

I took the things they taught me then put in a few good laps, but the thing that helped me most was sat in the passenger seat of my car with my business partner driving. I suddenly realised I knew pretty much what corner was coming next at every corner. Because I wasnt worrying about driving, it was slower so I took everything in. I came back in and realised I had picked up pretty much every corner.

Obviously I did not know the fastest I could take every corner, that will come with time, but I felt I picked it up pretty quick. I am a quick learner in most things, and I am very good at remembering roads I have driven.

I dont think its as daunting as many make it seem. Get out there with some of the lads in CSL's. You will be surprised how quick you will actually pick it up.

I drive my CSL on track with DSC off as I personally am far faster this way. My 8.10 was with DSC on and the light didnt even flicker one bit- thats how I know I wasnt pushing.

As Alex suggested november lapping will be very quiet indeed so I wouldn't write off TF entirely, especially as an introduction and learning curve...


and it really does not matter what car to start off in, and caged or not- although when you get down to below 8:30 easily the argument for a cage gets progressively harder to ignore...



tbh It would be nice to just drive the ring in a non track car, getting to know the place at a steady pace- i try and tell everyone I give a little advice to, to slow down so that you can pick up the pointers, markers, dots, kerbs you can take, turn in points.... once you've done 20 laps hire a bike and cycle it while a vln race is on- being close to the tarmac, seeing the camber, inclines and the lines the racers took was invaluable IMO

looking at my data I can pull 1.3g around 1 corner- I would never have realised why until I looked at it in the flesh:smokin:

treat it as a years project and you won't be above 8 mins at the end of it I guarantee

spot on Shane, you can learn so much when you are not driving- your brain can just take it all in....


tbh the track is not daunting - its the other numpties on it:smokin: if you see a swiss X5 avoid it like the plague!

+1 :thumbs:

Use the CSL Shim; you will only be disappointed in anything else 'inferior' or slower compared to the CSL. The CSL really is in its 'spiritual home' out at the Ring. It's not like the CSL is worth £60k anymore and you can definitely mitigate risk by only driving during the closed private track days which are much safer due to lack of idiots on track! :smokin:

There are the usual risks at the Ring just like any other track but of course there are some of greater concern like the TF numpties and the lack of run off but that risk is also part of what makes the place special and it cannot be compared to any other track i have driven.

Cage the CSL and simply get out on track and build experience steadily. I drive very similar to you only pushing once i know a track and my car's limits. You already know the CSL's driving charecteristics as Jim says so it is simply a matter of learning the Ring and gaining confidence. Smoothness is a very good attribute at the Ring; both in steering inputs and throttle control.

Within a couple more visits you will be down below 8min30secs BTG and by the time you have done around 50 laps things really start to click into place. I will probably fit a cage to my CSL at some point and feel that sub 8 min laps would be relatively straighforward for me with minimal traffic. My CSL never feels on it's ragged edge - unless i do something silly or end up on the wrong line before a corner due to overtaking slower traffic.

IMHO - drive the CSL at the Ring and don't throw money at a pointless 'Ring slag'.

Thank you for finally succumbing to the 'Ring Bug' :smt055