Fake Gruppe M - BEWARE!!

[cslbecks]

This is a subject that ive mentioned previously. I was/am currently in the market to buy an aftermarket exhaust for my E46 M3 CSL and was/am considering either a SS or Gruppe M silencer. I have owned previous E46 M3's and a few years ago got stung buying what i thought was a genuine Gruppe second hand and paid almost £1,000 for. It looked and sounded great but as ive mentioned before definitely restricted power some how and so i removed it. When i tried to sell it on i was told by a number of potential buyers that they believed it to be fake. I eventually sold it for a lot less money than i bought it for and had to state that i couldnt prove its authenticity. I now own a CSL and have enquired about a few Gruppes for sale and cant believe how many fakes there are on the market. No-one seems to have bought new and so no-one has any proof of receipt or authenticity. I dont necessarily see this as a major problem IF the potential buyer is told that the item for sale may be a fake/copy/replica - because even the fakes sound and look great. But why would anyone pay upwards of £700 for a fake??? Especially when i believe it may restrict power and certainly you will have NO warranty or any comebacks if it falls apart or fails in anyway etc - thats potentially a lot of money to just throw away.
Anyway - i was enquiring about yet another Gruppe for sale recently and decided to do some proper research on them. I got a direct contact for Gruppe Japan where all items originate from - and spoke to a guy called Hoya. He told me to forward him pictures of the so-called Gruppe to him and he would authenticate it for me. I heard back from him this morning. The Gruppe was indeed a fake. I cant attach his email on here as i dont know how to but the main basis for his assertion that it was a fake was the plaque serial number 05-0116. I have noticed this before and thought it was odd that almost every Gruppe ive ever seen has this very same number stamped on them. 05-0116 is a fake plaque and fake serial number. If you own a Gruppe and cant prove its authenticity and/or bought it second hand then check the serial number. The other way of checking its authenticity is by looking at the welds. The fakes do have decent welds on them but if you compare them to a picture of a genuine Gruppe the difference is clear. Go to the Gruppe website and download a pic of a genuine Gruppe exhaust.
As i said - i dont see this as a problem IF when selling the exhaust a seller clearly states that they have no way of proving if its genuine or not - at the end of the day Caveat Emptor - but i certainly dont think anyone should be paying £800 for something thats fake and you have no comebacks on if it breaks of fails.
If anyone has concerns about a Gruppe they either own or are about to buy then contact Manubu Hoya direct and he will confirm either way. His email address is: info@gruppem.co.jp

[Mark CSL]

Thanks for the info
I am sure it will help some members as it is a good upgrade.
( A bit loud for me or is it just i am geting OLD )

[sailorbaz]

Yeh, CSLBecks, I had a gruppe M with that number and was also told it was a genuine article. When I asked for the proof of purchase/invoice from the seller he told me he would dig it out and forward it to me at a later date.

I paid £500 including my own CSL Mid pipe and backbox and in return got a genuine 'unsilenced' Supersprint middle pipe and this 'Genuine' gruppeM back box.

I did have a GOOD look at it before installation and noticed that all welds were identical to those of the real deal, same number of joins and really good quality of welds. Once it was cleaned up, it looks the balls, I have to say.

FCUK me it was loud. Mark above will back me up, in the end it was too loud so tried just going back to original middle pipe, which made it a bit better in the cabin but outside it was still Ferrari-on-tubi loud so changed out for a Milltek.

On selling it, the plaque had also fell off however, as you mentioned I did state in the advert that I could not prove its authenticity apart from an E-mail I had from Hoya saying that he thought it was genuine. Mine DID have that serial number on though, before the plaque fell off. I even e-mailed Hoya back later asking for a replacement plaque but obviously he couldn't comply.

So, I sold it for over £600 on ebay even with the description of it possibly being a copy, but luckily enough there were 2 guys after it and the auction went well at the end.

However, I've since tried to get in touch with the guy that purchased it from me and he's never replied. No news is good news I suppose.

I love the Milltek though, IMHO its much better but each to thier own.

Good luck mate,
Baz

[SMD]

Great work!

I am interested in buying the one below any chance you could forward the pics on to find if if a genuine one please?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...m=110312493137

[cslbecks]

Ive literally JUST heard back from Hoya about this one above - and guess what....... its a FAKE!!!!!

[sailorbaz]

This ANOTHER one with the same Serial no???

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/E46-M3-CSL-Gru...1%7C240%3A1318

On another note, the boy that bought mine loved it but has since sold the car AND the exhaust, and is now cutting about in an E92 M3!

[cslbecks]

This one is also a fake im afraid - the welds are quite obviously inferior and the same old tell tale sign is the fake serial number as per usual!!!

[windy]

They don't even look genuine! They're pretty obviously stainless as titanium has an unpolished almost bronze look to it.

[cslbecks]

Yep - but people will still pay £800 for them - amazing really!!??

[SMD]

Another Fake?


http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BMW-E46-M3-CSL...1%7C240%3A1318