Tyres alternative to Cup

[Mike R]

Originally Posted by GT3

So for track use (road legal) tyres the options for 19" rims seem to be:
- Cup 2
- Dunlop
- AD08R
- TrofeoR

I've used the Porsche Cup 2 tyres a lot and found them superb. On a car with stiffer suspension they give great feedback through the corners. They do go off quickly in the first 1-2 sessions but after a few heat cycles (and usually late morning and after lunch on a track day) they are very consistent and stable.

I wonder whether the people reporting them going off are basing the observation on the initial heat cycles and not the latter day performance?

Being new to the E46 platform, I'm looking to decide which way to go with track tyres and was minded to continue with the Cup 2s

Hi Tanvir,
Good to see you joining in .

I am lead to believe that the Porsche spec Cup 2s get a unique compound that appears to be much better than the cooking version of the Cup 2s, so this would be a good opportunity to have this confirmed by someone who has experience of the Porsche versions. It's not that the Cup 2s are that much worse grip wise than the full fat Cups, it's just that they fall off a cliff once they get hot. Full fat Cups do 4-5 back to back laps at the 'ring before finally starting to surrender, Cup 2s do that part way through the second lap.... So it is just the working window that seems to be the issue. They come back again, once cooled, but then still just have that much smaller operating window which is annoying.

See what you think?

[LaSource]

Originally Posted by Mike R

Hi Tanvir,
Good to see you joining in .

I am lead to believe that the Porsche spec Cup 2s get a unique compound that appears to be much better than the cooking version of the Cup 2s, so this would be a good opportunity to have this confirmed by someone who has experience of the Porsche versions. It's not that the Cup 2s are that much worse grip wise than the full fat Cups, it's just that they fall off a cliff once they get hot. Full fat Cups do 4-5 back to back laps at the 'ring before finally starting to surrender, Cup 2s do that part way through the second lap.... So it is just the working window that seems to be the issue. They come back again, once cooled, but then still just have that much smaller operating window which is annoying.

See what you think?

Hey Mike...yes, new addition now finds me in new forums Need to get this old forum ID changed but the admin guys didn't respond to my request.

I would like to think there is not a major difference in the compounds. Of course the weight and its distribution in the 911 platform is different - The 996GT3/GT4 are circa 1350kg vs 1500kg(?) in an E46 M3...lighter for the CSL of course.

On the 6GT3 I would run about 29 PSI F / 31 PSI R given the road cold pressures are 32/39. So would be interesting to see what pressures people are running here. At somewhere like Spa and Silverstone during the afternoon session I could run the car almost relentlessly - ok, depends on your pace of course. I'd be doing circa 2.49/2.27 Spa/Silly.

At the ring 5 laps (imho) is a bit crazy for the average amateur (you excluded of course )...and you know I've had the issue or two on a long stint.

I am also running with the conspiracy theory (unproven and baseless) that Michelin have changed the Cup 2 compound since launch. My early sets on the 6GT3 were brilliant and very hard wearing. My later sets particularly on the GT4 have been a little less consistent and less hard wearing...I wonder whether Michelin decided to shorten the lifespan as they were far out compared to the competition.

Compared to Cup+ tyres, I love the mid corner 'feel' from the Cup 2 tyres...whatever magic they have done with the sidewalls, with a stiffer set up they really communicate how much grip/slip you have at each corner.

...finally, the platform also makes a difference. In the 911 platform where you use a lot of weight management to generate grip at each axle, tyre wear is fairly consistent and relatively longer lasting, in the mid engined GT4 with higher entry speeds I've found the cup 2s wearing much more with the fronts providing only 2 track days (geo of course improves this a little)...so again will be intrigued to see how these characteristics play out in the E46 platform.

..sorry, for the long post hopefully not completely off topic!

[billyboysm3]

Im going to end this thread now. Do not buy anything else other than dunlop 03G, run square set up 265 35 18.

These tyres are absolutely bloody awesome and grip as good as a used slick.

On track in a E46 M3 ive run proper cups, shit loads of medium and hard slicks and a new set of dunlops.

They are well worth the money. In the wet and damp they also have very good grip as long as you like the car moving around.

All the quick boys run them on there E36 M3's.

[billyboysm3]

Dunlops do go off but seem to grip, well exceed the number of laps normal cups can do and probably any other road legal tyre.

[LaSource]

Are they available in 19"/CSL fitment?

[billyboysm3]

Originally Posted by GT3

Are they available in 19"/CSL fitment?

Not sure as Id buy a set of 18's for track.

[Mike R]

Originally Posted by GT3

Hey Mike...yes, new addition now finds me in new forums Need to get this old forum ID changed but the admin guys didn't respond to my request.

I would like to think there is not a major difference in the compounds. Of course the weight and its distribution in the 911 platform is different - The 996GT3/GT4 are circa 1350kg vs 1500kg(?) in an E46 M3...lighter for the CSL of course.

On the 6GT3 I would run about 29 PSI F / 31 PSI R given the road cold pressures are 32/39. So would be interesting to see what pressures people are running here. At somewhere like Spa and Silverstone during the afternoon session I could run the car almost relentlessly - ok, depends on your pace of course. I'd be doing circa 2.49/2.27 Spa/Silly.

At the ring 5 laps (imho) is a bit crazy for the average amateur (you excluded of course )...and you know I've had the issue or two on a long stint.

I am also running with the conspiracy theory (unproven and baseless) that Michelin have changed the Cup 2 compound since launch. My early sets on the 6GT3 were brilliant and very hard wearing. My later sets particularly on the GT4 have been a little less consistent and less hard wearing...I wonder whether Michelin decided to shorten the lifespan as they were far out compared to the competition.

Compared to Cup+ tyres, I love the mid corner 'feel' from the Cup 2 tyres...whatever magic they have done with the sidewalls, with a stiffer set up they really communicate how much grip/slip you have at each corner.

...finally, the platform also makes a difference. In the 911 platform where you use a lot of weight management to generate grip at each axle, tyre wear is fairly consistent and relatively longer lasting, in the mid engined GT4 with higher entry speeds I've found the cup 2s wearing much more with the fronts providing only 2 track days (geo of course improves this a little)...so again will be intrigued to see how these characteristics play out in the E46 platform.

..sorry, for the long post hopefully not completely off topic!

We try to keep them at around 32/33psi hot.

Would be interesting to see how you get on with them with the E46.

As stated the Direzzas are in a different league, but not sure if the NVH would be okay on the road - perhaps Billy can confirm?

[billyboysm3]

I found the dunlops better than cups on the road, felt grippy in wet and damp conditions. Didn't think the road noise was to bad, can't really hear anything in the cabin any how

[alexk]

Originally Posted by billyboysm3

Not sure as Id buy a set of 18's for track.

Unfortunately my brakes are too big for 18" wheels...

[LaSource]

Originally Posted by alexk

Unfortunately my brakes are too big for 18" wheels...

Same here. My front discs are 362mm but I think they may just fit 18" ARC-8s

(Sorry, non CSL content!)