Clutch / Gearbox

[thegingerninja]

Originally Posted by SpineOnABap

Not sure about only changing with 100% throttle openage, even if it is low RPM you've still gotta mash it - would get interesting in the village particularly in traffic in 1st or 2nd

Someone posted that they drive like that AGES ago on Mtorque/BM3W - Ninja it's not you is it? (Simon?)

Yep - it's me, Elliot.

I've only ever driven my car this way ever since I owned it. I probably gave a fairly short description of how to drive it like this.

Obviously you can't change gear at 100% open throttle from 1st to 2nd in traffic. I drive mine in S2 or S3 until it has warmed up. I only use my CSL as a toy now, so I rarely drive in any traffic to be honest.

I tend to change gear very early in the rev range (1500 rpm) or very late (above 6000 rpm) to stay out of the maximum torque band, as it appears to be the torque that causes the slurring.

I have said before that it sounds like complete madness to drive like this, but it is surprisingly easy ( not in traffic). Even if I'm just gently cruising down the road at 50 mph following a line of traffic and I want to change from 5th to 6th, I floor the throttle flick the paddle for 6th, as soon as the gear is fully engaged, lift off back to a balanced throttle - you only gain a couple of mph, give it a go. It just sounds odd when you read it here on a forum, but if you get in your car and try it, it's not a problem. You just have to programme yourself to get through the gears quickly - 40 mph in 6th gear isn't a problem. If anyone has really bad slurring, drop into S2 or S3, and perform 100% throttle changes at 1500 rpm, or even 1200 rpm if you can. The lower the revs, the better. Then build it back up to S4, and S5.

The whole issue of the clutch slur is not a mechanical one in my opinion, the actual cause is down to the software releasing the clutch too slowly. The computer only has 3 variables to take into account when orchestrating a gear change, road speed, throttle position (engine load), and revs. If you only have 10% throttle loading, then the clutch operation is going to be fairly gentle to give a smooth drive - I think this becomes absorbed into the self learning part of the software and manifests into slurring at full throttle, either as slow clutch release or re-loading the engine too soon. My car certainly feels as if there is a definate gap between engaging the gear and reinstating full load. Either way, my car has been mint ever since I drove it like this. If I had any computer skills I would video the way I drive and load it onto youtube....but I haven't the faintest idea - any takers?

[TANKSLAPPER]

Originally Posted by thegingerninja

Yep - it's me, Elliot.

I've only ever driven my car this way ever since I owned it. I probably gave a fairly short description of how to drive it like this.

Obviously you can't change gear at 100% open throttle from 1st to 2nd in traffic. I drive mine in S2 or S3 until it has warmed up. I only use my CSL as a toy now, so I rarely drive in any traffic to be honest.

I tend to change gear very early in the rev range (1500 rpm) or very late (above 6000 rpm) to stay out of the maximum torque band, as it appears to be the torque that causes the slurring.

I have said before that it sounds like complete madness to drive like this, but it is surprisingly easy ( not in traffic). Even if I'm just gently cruising down the road at 50 mph following a line of traffic and I want to change from 5th to 6th, I floor the throttle flick the paddle for 6th, as soon as the gear is fully engaged, lift off back to a balanced throttle - you only gain a couple of mph, give it a go. It just sounds odd when you read it here on a forum, but if you get in your car and try it, it's not a problem. You just have to programme yourself to get through the gears quickly - 40 mph in 6th gear isn't a problem. If anyone has really bad slurring, drop into S2 or S3, and perform 100% throttle changes at 1500 rpm, or even 1200 rpm if you can. The lower the revs, the better. Then build it back up to S4, and S5.

The whole issue of the clutch slur is not a mechanical one in my opinion, the actual cause is down to the software releasing the clutch too slowly. The computer only has 3 variables to take into account when orchestrating a gear change, road speed, throttle position (engine load), and revs. If you only have 10% throttle loading, then the clutch operation is going to be fairly gentle to give a smooth drive - I think this becomes absorbed into the self learning part of the software and manifests into slurring at full throttle, either as slow clutch release or re-loading the engine too soon. My car certainly feels as if there is a definate gap between engaging the gear and reinstating full load. Either way, my car has been mint ever since I drove it like this. If I had any computer skills I would video the way I drive and load it onto youtube....but I haven't the faintest idea - any takers?

Love you Ginger

Normally, you just talk Bollocks

lol

[Bounce]

Originally Posted by TANKSLAPPER

Love you Ginger

Normally, you just talk Bollocks

lol

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

Not wanting to shoot off on another tangent,
but while researching the 'SAC' Clutch I came
across this article.

Given the design of the DCT clutch system,
odds on one clutch, evens on the other, then
as explained in the article, there is a downside
to it in a performance car.

http://www.autoevolution.com/news/ho...work-5458.html

Anyway back on topic, its interesting that companys like
Valeo offer 'SAC' replacement clutches which drops
the Dual Mass Flywheel for a single mass and then
drops the 'SAC' pressure plate for a more normal
sprung type finger one.

Many 328/528 owners report much better gear changes
and clutch feel once the original SAC is replaced with
these type conversion kits.

I am starting to think along the lines of a Steel
single mass flywheel, but not to light so that stall
and inertia become issues,retain the E36 M3 Evo pressure
plate and the E46 M3 standard disc or maybe a cerametallic
one.

There is cleary a design flaw to the SAC pressure plate,
so although I am reading posts where owners are undertaking
different proceedures or driving sequences to make the
issues better, I do not believe you can over come flawed
component design, longterm, with these type solutions.

Still its certainly stoking the debate, as Clutch Slip is an
issue on the SMG 11.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[NZ_M3]

Originally Posted by Kev.H

how do you do this one out of interest please ?

Second is a Clutch Slip reset (this is by far the most noticeable and effective reset when you are experiencing s slight slur when taking off) - I do this reset on my car regularly and have not experienced another take off slur ever since.

This is done via a third party tool - mine's made by Autoenginuity from the States. In terms of the SMG component sensors and resets it is dealership level (if not slightly better as it monitors and allows reset of individual components and sensors rather than a generic command that might include a whole host of things).

Originally Posted by Dan

Can you give any more details on the 'Soft Clutch Rest', is it simple as it sounds, go above 30mph, knock the car into neutral and pull both paddles back?

Okay, after reading the SMG training manual 3times I've come to the conclusion that the soft reset really has more to do with the DSC system than the SMG to be honest - basically it resets the volatile memory part of the DSC system in correlation to the wheel speed sensors (i.e. if you change wheels sizes ect). This reset is described in the owner's manual - but I can see it as a separate function on the Autoenginuity tool.

Originally Posted by weedavey

My question is does the software learn different driving styles in different modes?

To an extent yes - Although within the non Volatile memory part of the SMG control unit and the MSS54 DME are pre-determined codes and change patterns that never change - these outline the parameters so whatever changes within the volatile memory will still be within these parameters.

Originally Posted by thegingerninja

The whole issue of the clutch slur is not a mechanical one in my opinion, the actual cause is down to the software releasing the clutch too slowly. The computer only has 3 variables to take into account when orchestrating a gear change, road speed, throttle position (engine load), and revs.

That's incorrect I am afraid - it's way more complicated than that (I wish it was that simple, although I imagine if it was it'd drive like complete bonkers). The SMG Control Unit is basically a signal receiver and hydraulic operator - it's the MSS54 DME and the DSC Control unit all together that determines how the gear change is executed via the SMG CAN bus.

If you like the MSS54 DME is the brain and the SMG control unit the hands and feet of the system - the CAN bus is the spinal cord.

Originally Posted by from SMG training manual

SMG II Control Unit
......
Communication with the DME is via a dedicated CAN bus (SMG II CAN Bus). Based on
instructions received from the DME the SMG II control unit manages the clutch solenoid
valve, the selector shaft up and down solenoids, and the selection angle solenoid.
*****
While the SMG II control unit receives many of the inputs and manages the control of the
hydraulic system, the DME is responsible for and controls all gearshifts. Sensor inputs
received by the SMG II control unit are relayed to the DME for processing and monitoring.

And these are the signals monitored via the CAN Bus:

Engine Speed
Engine Coolant Temp
Engine Oil Temp
Intake Air Temp
PWG EDR Feedback Pots
Wheel Speed
Transverse Acceleration
Steering Angle
Cruise Status
Parking Brake
Door Contacts
Brake Light Switch
Key Memory

And I've not even gone into what the input signals are monitored by the SMG control unit and what is communicated with the MSS54 DME ...

So way more than just the road speed, throttle position and revs that you speak of.



I will come back to this a bit later. Having read the actual SMG training manual 3 times, I actually now have a much better understanding of how the system works.

[shimmy]

i dont understand any of this but i love reading it

[Bounce]

Originally Posted by shimmy

i dont understand any of this but i love reading it

+1

[glendog74]

Originally Posted by shimmy

i dont understand any of this but i love reading it

+2









Just happy that mine doesn't slur

[TheBigDog]

[quote=glendog74;47303]+2

lol!!

[TheBigDog]

Originally Posted by glendog74

+2









Just happy that mine doesn't slur

Yep - the red wheels DO make you gay - you homo..!!!