M3 gts

[mattCSLnut]

Originally Posted by _Nathan_

if you remember the CSL was universally slated when it came out and it was massively overpriced and as such prices dropped 35% in the first 18 months, I don't see anything different with the GTS, once they are cheap enough everyone will fall in love with them as they did with the CSL.

I thought the M3 CSL was only £20 000 more then the equivalent M3 Coupe

[3wheels3]

Originally Posted by alexk

...car was 'cooked' in no-time...'quick and dirty'...

Good summary.

Replacing plush interior with two 500 quid SPG's and a bolt in half cage, wing & splitter. Surely that costs next to nowt. Different glass ain't much either. Bigger capacity...ok but for 30 bhp?

This is no CSL! I am just relieved they didn't devalue CSL brand with this jumble sale tat.

[alexk]

Nathan,

There goes the 'competitor'. Check this rear wing.




The CSL was the first 'normal' vehicle that had a carbon roof, carbon interior, carbon bumper, carbon intake.
It had many differences over the standard M3.
It was well-thought and engineered to make a difference.
The CSL was a pioneer in extreme 'normal' cars, that's why the press attacked it.

Did we see the GTS in any major car-show ? NO
Why ? Isn't it obvious that they were in a rush ?
It doesn't even have a different front bumper.

I know that many people will love it (maybe they will sell 50 of these) and track it.
But we are forgetting that we are in 2009 and not 2002.

Back in 2002 there were no extreme 'normal' cars like the CSL.
Competition (Mercedes black series, Audi R8, Nissan GTR) has lifted the baseline.
There are cars today like the Renault R26R (I might have the code wrong) which is a track weapon.
Was there any car with removed sound insulation, AC, radio etc etc ?
And where was BMW today ? NOWHERE.
After so much pressure, they offered as an add-on brembo brakes for 1 and 3 series (for the small engines).
Now they remembered that they can put brembo brakes in M models !!!
We consider this as extreme, when an alfa romeo mito has brembo brakes !!!

[shimmy]

Originally Posted by 3wheels3

This is no CSL! I am just relieved they didn't devalue CSL brand with this jumble sale tat.

i think that is what BMW thought as well.

TonyR is taking his E92 road car and my guess he will get a better and faster car than the GTS spending less than £20k

[DazBlackCSL]

Originally Posted by alexk

Nathan,

There goes the 'competitor'. Check this rear wing.




The CSL was the first 'normal' vehicle that had a carbon roof, carbon interior, carbon bumper, carbon intake.
It had many differences over the standard M3.
It was well-thought and engineered to make a difference.
The CSL was a pioneer in extreme 'normal' cars, that's why the press attacked it.

Did we see the GTS in any major car-show ? NO
Why ? Isn't it obvious that they were in a rush ?
It doesn't even have a different front bumper.

I know that many people will love it (maybe they will sell 50 of these) and track it.
But we are forgetting that we are in 2009 and not 2002.

Back in 2002 there were no extreme 'normal' cars like the CSL.
Competition (Mercedes black series, Audi R8, Nissan GTR) has lifted the baseline.
There are cars today like the Renault R26R (I might have the code wrong) which is a track weapon.
Was there any car with removed sound insulation, AC, radio etc etc ?
And where was BMW today ? NOWHERE.
After so much pressure, they offered as an add-on brembo brakes for 1 and 3 series (for the small engines).
Now they remembered that they can put brembo brakes in M models !!!
We consider this as extreme, when an alfa romeo mito has brembo brakes !!!

now that is nice ... agree this is not a CSL equiv ... probably helps us lot TBH as you dont really want a CSL version on every incarnation of the 3 series M as it will devalue the whole CSL brand.

Reckon another 2/3 or more models in the CSL may appear by then ours would be a proper old school legend .. and I will be as bald as a coot

[_Nathan_]

I don't see what difference it makes if it has been in a car show or not, this thing will rape an e46 CSL round a race track whilst being completely under warranty and having a power to weight ratio up there with the GT3RS of this world, the fact that it has a unique engine capacity in the range for homologation purposes makes it more special. Even the 320si has a special feel about it knowing that it is directly linked to the motorsport program, this takes that and multiples it IMO.

The press attacked the e46 csl because it was 20k more than a normal M3, wasn't much faster and had rubbish steering feel and marmite gearbox, there were other cars at the time that were just as hardcore (Impreza Spec C as an example, or GT3RS was around the same time too). Over time the press seemed to do a huge u turn on them as they realised how special they actually were.

Matt - it was £20k more, when a basic M3 was only £39k, I got mine 18 months old with 3.5k miles on it for £40k and I paid a few grand over the odds as I had a Noble to part ex which was a nightmare as no one wanted it.

[windy]

Originally Posted by alexk

I am not sure that's a 'CSL'.
The brakes, suspension, cage and seats are obvious.
Does it has any special parts like the CSL ? Bumper, trunk etc etc etc ?

Please don't tell me it needs a 'special bumper and boot' to be a CSL?

[_Nathan_]

Originally Posted by shimmy

i think that is what BMW thought as well.

TonyR is taking his E92 road car and my guess he will get a better and faster car than the GTS spending less than £20k

Indeed, spend £5k on dampers, £4k on brakes, £5k on the engine, £5k on the interior and £3k on wheels and tyres and you probably would be faster but you wouldn't have a warranty and it'd be a nightmare to insure. no different to the people that said you could make a normal M3 faster than a CSL for less than the £20k difference

[shimmy]

Originally Posted by _Nathan_

Indeed, spend £5k on dampers, £4k on brakes, £5k on the engine, £5k on the interior and £3k on wheels and tyres and you probably would be faster but you wouldn't have a warranty and it'd be a nightmare to insure. no different to the people that said you could make a normal M3 faster than a CSL for less than the £20k difference

BUT Nathan we are talking about saving £30k off the £100k and having a car that is better, NOT spending £20k on a car that is still 10% worse

It all hinges on whether BMW have put real TIME AND VALUE into the GTS like they did wiht the CSL or whether they have rushed out an M3 with some easy mods to get their motorsport programme back on track now that they are out of F1

THis does not have the class of the finish of a £100k car imho but it may well go like shit off a shovel. They are two sepoerate things

[_Nathan_]

I like the look of it though, guess that is my inner chav coming out