Seeking CSL knowledge.
 

Hi. I've been a member for a short while but this is my first time posting. First let me start off by saying that I envy you guys a lot for being able to own a CSL. I live in the U.S. and as all of you all know we have no CSL's here. I've always wanting to own my own CSL and have even thought about moving to the UK to get into one.

Anyways, the reason why I am in need of your help is because I want to start a project to build my own "CSL" as close as I possibly can to the real one. What I would do is sell my 2003 Silver Gray M3 and buy a 2005-06 Silver Gray M3 CS. Im doing this because the CS has many similarities as the CSL so it would be a good platform to start from. Then after that, I basically want to buy these parts and install them. (Prices are approximate to how much we can get them here in the states.)

Exterior:
Front bumper: $3000
Boot lid: Already acquired from Craig!
Rear diffuser: $1000
Carbon fiber roof: $1611
Rear window: $1000
Grille emblems: $90
Wheels: $2500

Interior:
Front seats: $3500
Rear seats: $2000
Front door panels: $1300
Rear door panels: $850
Center console: $450
Door sills: $350

Performance:
Air box: $4500
Camshafts (both): $1500
Headers (both): $2200
Catalytic converter (both): $1850
X pipe: $850
Muffler: $1000

Everything is really straight bolt on and will have no issue with that, but there is one major problem. The hardest modification by far will be to get the CSL air box to work properly and have the engine run smooth. Many here in the states buy the air box and remove the flap because only BMW was the proper software to make it work properly. And after all that, many times the car has a rough idle even after a tune. One of my questions is, if I were to buy a CSL's ECU, with cams and air box already installed, would the car and air box run properly? If not, then how about getting a hold of a CSL's engine with ECU and air box ... would it work then? If anyone has a idea or solution, do tell.

This is one many questions I have in planning this project. I told a few of my friends, but they could care less about it. And it's not their fault, they just don't know or have never heard of this amazing car. I guess I just need to vent and let out what Im planning to people who know and appreciate the CSL.

If anyone has any information, or can pointe out something I may have missed, or have any knowledge of how to make this project a bit easier, please let me know. Im am always open to any information about the CSL. It's always exciting when you find out something new about your dream car.

Thanks for your time.

Andy Max

Andy, first off the front bumper will not fit straight on, the M3 has a different bumper bar configuration where the bar is part of the bumper and the on the CSL the bar is part of the car (subtle difference but means you cant just swap over), get an aftermarket CSL style bumper.

As for the ECU, yes, a CSL ECU and loom will work but will need re-coding to the car and likely re-mapping as well. People like Turner MS in the states should be fine with that.

Would the car be RHD or LHD as well, isn't there a difference in the headers dependent on this?

Hi Andy,i wouldn't rush to buy CSL wheels,as the CS ones are the same,only slightly narrower at the front i think.;)

Welcome Andy,

Forum members 'phat///M3' and 'Rutkowski' have both modified their E46 M3s using CSL parts. I know Rutkowski has a CSL airbox installed and he will no doubt be able to offer you advice on that one.

Enjoy the site and all things CSL!

Rob :thumbs:

Welcome to the site, not sure it's quite worth moving to the UK to have a CSL, but appreciate the sentiment!

Guess must be exorbitantly expensive to import one from Europe then?

Thanks for the heads up. :thumbs: Im aware of this and Tischer BMW sells the required parts to mount the bumper since my car has the kevlar bracket and wont be a straight bolt on.

I didn't know Turner MS offered this. Thanks for the tip, Ill look into it. :beer:

It will be a LHD. I don't believe so. I've never heard of this but I may be wrong. I would more than likely get all exhaust parts from CA Auto, they have already sent me quotes for everything. ;)

Your are correct my friend. The CSL's are half an inch wider than the CS, 8.5 inches as apposed to 8 inches. To have these is more for bragging rights. :thumbs:

Sweet. I'll have to send these guys a PM.

Thank you sir, you know I will. :beer:

Thanks. :thumbs:

I've heard it is very expensive. I don't exactly know how much but I think I read somewhere that it gets close to the $100,000 range, not sure though. But money aside, its also very, very complicated and takes a very long time with no guarantee that it will work in the end. Bummer. :bigcry:

I also seem to remember that the CSL was not able to be driven on the public highway in the US due to not passing their import/emissions/DVLA equivalent checks.

Welcome mate and best of luck with the build.

That's also correct. If you remap your ECU with the Alpha N software, it will not pass the checks done by their computer on the car at the inspection place. :banghead: I don't know why this is though. That's another reason why people here don't really go for the CSL intake setup.

I've also heard that it wouldn't pass crash tests here do to BMW removing some air bags and the weight saving program BMW did on the car. But don't quote me on this. :whistle:

Andy Max

Thank you sir, Im gonna need it. :beer:

Here you go mate have a read of this!

http://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/showth...ghlight=evolve

Thank you sir. I'm definitely going to try to get some information from this Sal person. :thumbs:

Hi,

Have you investigated Importing a CSL
into Canada as a ''Grey Import'' and then
once it has Title in Canada then import it
as a 'Grey' Import to USA.

I know a Guy who did this with a Mercedes EVO 1
and that Car is actually now back in Canada after
spending about 4 years in Florida.

Building a clone will be expensive and no
matter how good, not original.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

I've never heard of a grey import but I will definitaley look into this. Buying a CSL would be so much easier and cheaper than building one and I personally would much rather have a real CSL. :smt023

Thanks for the tip. :beer:

Andy Max

I'd import one and say it's a normal M3 'they' won't know the difference .

Hello and welcome to the forum, goodluck in whichever direction you choose to take:thumbs:

I would do this but if I were to somehow get the car is imported, customs will check the vin number. Once customs sees that the vin number is different the car will either be sent back or destroyed and there will be many fines to pay. :axe:

Thank you sir! :beer:

Andy , welcome to the forum ... I have a great idea .... why dont you come and live over here for a few months with MY CSL ... and I will come live out there with ..well..... your housemaid ????:thumbs:... please send recent pic of said maid !!:hahaha:...

I was going to say your wife reaLLY BUT ITS EARLY DAYS YET ISNT IT !! FOOK CAPS !

Thanks but no thanks. :thumbs:

Thanks, that's my car. Max, if you have any questions in regards to tuning or airboxes, you can send me a pm.

Will do. Thank you sir. :beer:

Max, welcome to the forum!

As Glendog mentioned earlier on, i have been turning my standard M3 2003, into a CSL. I won't go all out and remove sound insulation, sat nav etc but have, what i call - the must - have CSL parts. Steering rack plus DSC reflash, Wheels, engine specification (CSL cams and exhaust valves) MSS54HP ECU (all M3s beyond 2004 have it) CSL SMG software, Recaro seats, upgraded brakes, headers and Supersprint 'street' exhaust, CSL anti roll bars, alcantara steering wheel, M track mode retrofit and a few more bits.

The OEM CSL carbon airbox - installed and tuned by Evolve. Works exactly like on the CSL... perfect and smooth idle and start up. Highly recommended modification. :thumbs:

Good luck with your project and as for the CSL carbon fibre roof - i'm still in two minds about it.... cutting out mine and installing CSL one so the car is rigid.. is it possible? How is it done on the CSL? What has BMW used to bond that roof?

Thanks you sir. :thumbs: Sounds like me and you have the same goal in mind. I want to start off with a M3 CS so the steering rack and other things will already be installed.

So you were able to get the OEM CSL air box to work properly?! Im going to have to PM you for the details because no one here in the states has ever made it work properly. They just install it and have the flap always open because they cant get it to open at the right RMP's and the idle is rough.

Yes the OEM CSL roof has been installed on a non CSL car. I plan on doing this too. Here is a link where daytonaviolet did it on his car. He knows a lot about anything CSL.

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=140950

Good luck with your car. Will keep in touch. :beer:

And Max

Kris, do you ever drive your car?:whistle:

Many of us CSL owners actually remove the flap :hahaha:

Really? Why is that?

Max, thanks for the link!! :thumbs: It's one of my next mods, it's been decided since i convinced my wife the sunroof spoils handling. (she wanted me to retrofit this!!!!):thumbs:

I never bothered with the motorised flap as they do go faulty and don't open, resulting in loss of power. By the time you know what's happeneing - you'll lose a lot of races...... that's my explanation anyway. :hahaha:

For the flap to work, you need to retrofit wiring loom and install the CSL software on MSS54HP ECU. The diagrams are available but i can dig it out for you.

Good luck! ;)

Andrew.... yes i do and i have done a respectable 3 weeks of driving, in the last two years.... i kid you not!! Less is more is my motto!! :hahaha:

TBH i've so much upgrades that need installing.. spent £££s and it's all sitting in my flat. I think i have some sort of wierd fetish!! :whistle:

Because they always break and serve no purpose other than to lower noise :thumbs:

I think it's also for when driving in heavy rain (you take sport off which means it remains closed up to 5500rpm), where the ram air hole would send all the water in the intake.

The flap is also there for emissions cycle testing but its not needed for an MOT in this regard so can be ditched. Roof is a relatively easy change, four bolts and drilling out some spot welds on the OEM metal one and bolts and bonding for the CSL one. Windscreen type sealant works just as well as others although make sure you do a water test after. A few breakers get CSL roofs in but check to see how they have been removed before buying as if you twist the roof as part of the removal it will break down the lacer and go opaque in the sunshine. New roof from BMW is £1300 I think? We did one for an insurance claim a little while ago due to something being dropped on it by a builder.

You could fit a race roof but I wouldn't advise it, they are much thiner and not as resistant to sunshine or water.

Alex, this wouldn't make any difference. The lower air feed is always open.

This takes air under the bumper

Perhaps BMW should've linked the flap to the windscreen wipers ;)

What happens if you go over 5.5k rpm in the wet and the flap opens? Does the engine break due to hydraulic lock? Nope, it is fine...

Ah, the lower lower one. I see.;)

:thumbs:

Im looking into getting a 2005 or 2006 so it should already have the MSS54HP ECU. Questions:
Would I need a DSC reflash and the CSL SMG software even if the car is a M3 CS?
Is the M3 CS suspension the same as the M3 CSL?

Im going to have to get in touch with Evolve, I keep hearing good things about them.
Thanks

Does the wiring loom come with the CSL intake? Im lost on this.
When you say CSL software are you referring to the Alpha N or something else?
If its not to much of a bother to dig them up, I would really like to check them out, very interesting.
Thank you. :beer:

Oh, I see. Well that sucks.
Thanks for the insight. :beer:

Max - why bother with an expensve M3 CS 2005 / 2006 for? Just change the steering rack and reflash the ECU with CSL ECU / SMG ECU software.

The DSC / M track mode software / retrofit is very easy but use M3 CS algorithm. CSL one is tuned for lighter, stiffer car - the software is different. The ABS software is different and no good to a standard M3.... unless of course -unless you'e going to totally replicate every single thing... but it makes no sense tbh.

If you're interested - i have researched this subject very, very well and don't mind sharing the knowledge.

First off - what will you use the car for? Track days? Mixture of track days / road? or you just fancy having a CSL?

I have decided to install all the best CSL bits but leave the toys and comforts. I'm even wondering if i should put back my standard M3 seats but re - trim them so the top looks like the seats from an M6. I drive so little and when i do - it's a road.... but i do like this sprty car feeling the Recar seats give you..... i'm still undecided.

I have Recaros but was thinking of Recaro Sportster CS (the BMW Performance ones)

I'll dig some diagrams for you. I've got all the original E46 M3 options bought and ready to install too. Also little things like 5000K xenons, illuminated door sills, Alpine iPod connections, JL sound upgrade, blutooth and so on and on. Loads of other things in short.

Got to be miles easier to get in to a CS that to buy a new ECU, get it coded, new steering rack new DSC module (extra pin I believe?), new steering wheel panel, all the labour, CSL brakes already on it.

Got to be a much, much easier and cheaper starting point, also retain value better, if for example you spend money upgrading the ECU to a later one you may as well burn that money as far as getting anything back come resale.