all 2004 onwards M3s have CSL ECU.

DSC is the same from 2003 onwards on all M3s too.

Steering rack is a 3 hour labour plus £900 for parts.

Coding - 1 hour jobbie.

Brakes - who wants stock brakes anyway?

2003 facelift is still £10000 cheaper than a CS one....

By your own admission 2003 wouldn't have the right ECU.

How much is the difference between a 2004 and a early CS? Remember that you'll see back a percentage of the difference come sale time where as you'll see back around zero percent on new steering racks and ECUs. DSC still requires a wire running to pin 28 switching to earth and the steering wheel requires effort on that part too, along with replacement with a suede one, all these little parts and a few hours here and there add up and don't add any value to the car.

16995 before haggling gets you in to a leggy CS from a dealer, find me a 2003 facelift M3 with the same miles on it (88k) for 6995 from a dealer and I'll buy it, from what I can see the difference is far less, and you'd have a car worth more than buying the old one and modifying it?

My M3 has close to 115,000 miles so I was planning on selling it in the future anyways, so I might as well get an M3 CS. Plus my car is not SMG.

Ok, so as far as software, if Im understanding correctly, I will need:
SMG software
DSC software
M Track mode software
Alpha N software
CSL software on the ECU
Correct me if Im wrong or am missing something.

Im always interested in learning anything about the CSL. :beer:

More than likely it will just be on the road, but you never know, I may take it to the track.

I say keep the Recaros, unless it gets really cold then put in the standard ones to use the heated seats. :thumbs:

I just looked up those Recaro Sportster CS seats on the web, very nice. :drool:

Thanks, I really appreciate it. :thumbs:

You and I think alike my friend. :beer: Plus my car is not a SMG and that is a must on this project. Im also thinking like Rutkowski where I would like it to have some comfort options like nav/ heated seats/ HK/ rear sunshade/ headlamp washers/ and PDC (which comes with the SMG option here in the states). That way if I want to change the car back to normal, I would not be stuck with a plain M3. Also, it is much easier to remove some of these options like the nav and rear sunshade rather than installing them later. ;)

What's this about a DSC reflash on a standard M3?

What does it do? Is the DSC different on the CSL/CS/M3?

Not that I drive with it on anyway!

Cheers:thumbs:

M Track mode.

CSL ABS is different too - guess the thresholds are higher to allow for cup tyres?

What's the usual emissions test procedure for the CSL owners? As it's looking now, the Alpha-N conversion required to run a CSL box will not pass OBDII emissions testing in the states. Some states and even some counties within a state have different mandates but if you're car is required to be tested through the OBD port, it won't pass. I hope a way around that is found because that's the only real thing holding me back from converting to the CSL airbox :(.

Emissions in UK is just probe into exhaust (or the exhaust of another car altogether if your MOT station is so inclined).

All in all Nathan - I've calculated that CSL steering rack incl. labour to fit, M track mode (which you could well do yourself) steering wheel in alcantara, M3 CS - DSC and ABS reflash (due to quicker steering ratio) + MSS54HP ECU, all comes down to £2200 max.

2003 E46 M3 can be found for around £11'000.00 and if costs is an issue then surely the extra monies could be spent to buy second hand APs, CSL bootlid, rear difuser and maybe a slightly damaged front bumper. ;)

Turning standard M3 into a CSL is quite expensive and costs add up bloody quick!!

Most of the things i bought for my M3 are second hand (in a vey good condition... but the CSL bumper!! :hahaha: ) and my modifications now costs more than whole of the car is worth..... which reminds me, i still haven't done the cracking rear subframe nor the recall on SMG relay module.... :banghead:

Agree to disagree then buddy, I don't think you could do all the work for that including labour and even if you could that is a couple of grand you'll never see back and more hassle.

My car is probably worth less than I've spent in mods too :D

:hahaha::hahaha:

I said that because i have a quote for that much Nathan. I'm doing this to my M3. ;) :thumbs:

As for your car - i'd love to see the finish product... any pics buddy?

So a new ECU, Steering wheel and steering rack fitted and reprogrammed for 2.2k inc vat? Hmm, useful info.

Mine'll never be finished, nature of the beast.

http://ingsy.zenfolio.com/img/s8/v10/p982217364-3.jpg

cash job and the steering wheel done in alcantara. :thumbs:

looking good there! :thumbs:

Would look better with red wheels :whistle:

;)

Ok, so as far as software upgrade from an M3 CS to and M3 CSL I will need:

SMG software
DSC software
ABS software
M Track Mode software
Alpha N software
"CSL Software" for the ECU (Is all the above included in the "CSL Software" or is there more missing other than the above listed? Im confused on this one.)

I though all the above were the same between the CS and the CSL other than Alpha N. Correct me if Im wrong or if I am missing something.

Thanks for your help.

Andy Max

I you bought M3 CS then you'd only need engine ECU software assuming, you changed the camshafts for CSL ones or Schricks 288 / 280 and SMG ECU software, that's all. :thumbs:
ABS algorithms are totally different for CSL and CS - don't do it.

Sweet! And yes I will be changing cams to CSL cams and CSL intake. So SMG and engine ECU software, got it.

When you say engine ECU software, are you referring to the Alpha N software? Just wanna make sure we're on the same page.

Thanks.

install intake + camshafts

then install Alpha - N and CSL engine software which has a totally different mapping for the engine compared to standard M3, due to the fact the CSL camshafts are longer duration.

Will you change exhaust valves too?

Ok so intake, cams, Alpha N, SMG software and engine CSL software, I got it!

I was told that the intake valves are different and would need them to have the cams run properly. So I was planning on changing those. I didn't know if the exhaust valves are different too. Are they? If they are, I might as well get them too.

Thanks.

As far as i know it's only the exhaust valves that are different. It's best to check realoem.com then. :thumbs:

Will do. Thank you sir.

You are correct. The exhaust valves are different but the intake valves are the same according to realoem.com. Refer to parts 6 and 7.

CSL's valve train:
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...06&hg=11&fg=25

M3's valve train:
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...06&hg=11&fg=25

Thanks for the help. :thumbs:

Sorry Max, I got the info mixed up between which valves were different

No need to apologize, brother. I know you were trying to help me out. It's all good. :)

Happy modding then Max!! :thumbs: :supz:

Yes sir! Don't mind if I do. And with this post I'm officially Mode S1 - Starting Out. :)

Hi,

I would not bother with the CSL Exhaust valves.

So long as your existing S54 Exhaust Valves are in
good condition, I would have them triple cut and the
results would be the same if not better.

The CSL Exhaust valves were 'optimised' ie cut/shaped
to allow better exhaust flow for the slightly longer
duration CSL Cams.

Rather than the CSL Cams why not go for Schrick Cams
at 288/280 with the 1mm longer duration which would
allow the retention of the Vanos, set of solid lifters, nice
set of uprated valves springs to stop valve float, with
well matched Titanium Retainers to lighten up the valve
train and see a true real world 360 BHP + rather than
all these mythical Dyno ones.

Downside is you have to add about another
7/8000 USD to your project build.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

Hmmm, very interesting. I will definitaley put this into consideration and have a look into it. Thanks for the advice. :beer:

my 2 cents after literally 100ths of straight line "races" is that as far as power is concerned there is NO WAY to gain a significant amount of power from the s54 ...

of course many so called tuners may claim hp gains on the dyno ... but on the road you would probably go even slower than stock !!!

we have checked nearly ALL available n/a methods from nearly ALL "tuners" ...

lately we have even checked a heavily modified s54 with higher compression , pistons , numerous Schrick camshafts (from 288 up to 304) , Schrick retainers , strengthened valve spinrgs , csl airbox etc ...

the results is that even that will go head to head with mine which is just an "alpha-n" with an MK airbox and 1460 kg ;) ...

as for csl's in my current "specs" I must say that I am quite faster ... on a straight line that is !!!

the only modification that I would suggest for a "regular" M3 after all that testing for the last 3 years is

shedding weight , a shorter final diff and a lightweight flywheel ... the "alpha-n" conversion and a higher rev limiter is of course not a bad idea as well

Kms get good power out of them, 420bhp NA, problem is the warranty / rebuild interval is measured in hours.

Hi,

Quote-

from the s54 ...

of course many so called tuners may claim hp gains on the dyno ... but on the road you would probably go even slower than stock !!!

we have checked nearly ALL available n/a methods from nearly ALL "tuners" ...

lately we have even checked a heavily modified s54 with higher compression , pistons , numerous Schrick camshafts (from 288 up to 304) , Schrick retainers , strengthened valve spinrgs , csl airbox etc ...

the results is that even that will go head to head with mine which is just an "alpha-n" with an MK airbox and 1460 kg ...

as for csl's in my current "specs" I must say that I am quite faster ... on a straight line that is !!!

the only modification that I would suggest for a "regular" M3 after all that testing for the last 3 years is

shedding weight , a shorter final diff and a lightweight flywheel ... the "alpha-n" conversion and a higher rev limiter is of course not a bad idea as well


Not sure I follow what your saying here.

You posted your concerns that your ECU was not making
fuel adaptions / trimming which would be required in
order to make real gains with the S54 Vanos optimised,
as in the CSL, and now your saying that even highly
tuned cars are not as fast as yours ?

While I believe that tunning the S54 to some of the alleged
numbers is cloud cuckoo land, its on par with saying that a
N type Map with a Carbon Airbox and nothing else produces
a S54 that is better than a CSL ?

Correct me if I am wrong, but that is what you are saying.

Where did BMW go so wrong, I mean all they had to do
to go racing themselves was take a stock S54, fit an
MK Carbon Airbox, a bastardised N Type Map, leave the stock
cams in there, not even optimise the Vanos, and hey presto they
have a winner !!

This is just pure Monkey business to a primate.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

Losing some weight is always a winner and this includes the driver. :thumbs:

I am begining to think that Carbon Airbox and 100cell cats are the only things worth doing to S54... anymore and it is a big £££ for a few BHP...

To make a better use of what you already have is to upgrade suspension and brakes... and Drexler LSD? :)

Hi,

I have always maintained on many posts
that to get much above 360 BHP on a S54
is really big money for maybe 20/30 BHP
if your really lucky.

People seem to forget that some of
these Race engine numbers are not
only 50k plus in parts, but they are around
1500/2000 Km in life.

Many stock S54's do not even make
320 BHP from the factory, and CSL's
are more like 330-340 than its claimed 360.

To get an alleged 360 BHP on standard Cam profile
with a better volume intake and N type map
is not living in the real world.

A N type map and a carbon box is not 40bhp on
a stock S54, well only if your selling them.

Dyno figures have so many variables that
there almost irrelevent.

4.1 Diff suits the engine rev band/ Gearbox ratios
a little better, but does not really make the car a lot quicker.

There's a Drexler diff in my CSL, while its very good for Track
its not really suited to everyday driving.


Regards,

The Gorilla.

Power pulleys :smokin:


Nuff said!

My M3 made close to 340bhp proven with well over 100 dyno tests and over a course of 3 years. I added carbon airbox and a remap from Evolve. I believe the 360bhp power figure. :thumbs:

Another good power improver would be the 'Okada' stuff and power pulleys perhaps?

100




You are a mentalist

yes. :whistle:

I believe anything i am told... :whistle:

As far as the hp gains on the "regular" S54

the no fuel trimming after the mafless (alpha-n) reprog and the airbox is just something that some aftermarket programmers seem to be doing so as I have explained in that post

http://www.cslregister.com/forum/sho...0&postcount=11

now on the other subject

I do not say that my car is faster than highly tuned cars

I am saying that THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A HIGHLY TUNED S54

The M3 can go faster but the S54 can produce at the most 370 hp on the csl and a few LESS on the M3

Now here is a video of my car vs a csl (alexk knows the owner) ... at that time my car WAS NOT lightened and had NO airbox or alpha-n reprog but I had installed a 3.91 diff , a lightweight flywheel and a full SS exhaust.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ9mINH4zhY&feature

after the installement of the airbox and the alpha-n I gained a couple of a car lengths maybe more ... but mainly the engine is more consistence where as before there were various "ups and downs"




Let me say it again ...

1) I do not claim any hp more than 360

2) What I "claim" as you say is backed by "racing" against other cars ON THE ROAD ... not by comparing hp dyno sheets on the internet

3)The main reasons that my car performs are

It Weighs aprox 1460 kg (no passanger) where as normal M3's are aprox 1570 (regardless that bmw claims that M3's weigh 1570 with 75kg passenger)

It actually produces 350-360 hp (close to a csl) where as normal M3's produce less than 330 at the best ... furthermore the dme is programmed to run up to 8400 rpm

It has a shorter rear diff 3.91 and with the csl wheels and tyre size the final drive is close to 4.00 in comparison to the 3.62 of the normal M3

It has a lightweight flywheel which as you know makes a big difference especially on the low gears due to the smaller EQUIVALENT weight

and some other smaller details

Νow the result is that the car can accelerate !!!

Some TRUE examples ...

my car vs a AA sta1.5 M3 E46 ... the s/c is of course EXTREMELY powerful ... It belongs to a close friend (alexk knows him as well) ... DUE TO EXTENSIVE wheel spinning as a result of the extreme power ... I am faster from a stand still (or from 30kph) up to 200 kph ... of course if we race from a higher gear (where the s/c does not spin) I am humiliated

my car vs 335 stage1 (380hp) ... (again alexk knows him) ... my M3 is faster all the way

etc etc ...

On the other hand we have many examples of "so called tuned" M3's that INSTEAD of weigh shedding and revving concentrate on POWER and the end result is sadly DISAPPOINTING ...

I really cannot understand how people believe that you can produce 390-400 etc hp from a 3.246cc n/a engine WITHOUT race components (like on the P54)

So NO the BMW has not failed ... all I claim is that a light normal M3 with a couple of correct modifications ca go fast on a straight line ...

Hi,

Evangelos- but you did say-

''as for csl's in my current "specs" I must say that I am quite faster ... on a straight line that is !!!

So your view of tuning the S54 although very similar to what I
have always maintained, you are saying that your lightened
car even though still heavier than a std CSL, and with less power than
a ''good' CSL engine, some have made a tad above 360, is quicker.

As for the video of your car, if you watch very carefully you can
just see Stevie Wonder getting out of the other car's drivers seat.

Still a load of old Moneky business.

Regards,

The Gorilla.