Geo session - 2.1degree neg camber?!

[bryce]

Cars just been in for geometry.

Camber
On the front I wanted:

1.5 – 2.0 Degrees Negative

What I got:

Left: 2degree 10' Neg
Right: 1degree 42' Neg

They said they couldnt adjust it cos I dont have something. Might have been top mounts maybe. Ive got KW v3s.

Is this within acceptable limits? KDS printout says -/+ 0.45', but I think that's for a standard CSL.

Is handling gonna be to pot for the road and chew hell outta the tyres?

[benCSL]

Hi

i am -2.18 on the Left and -2.20 on the right.

No problem for road use, a little more directive after 250 km/h.

:thumbs:

[shimmy]

Cars just been in for geometry.

Camber
On the front I wanted:

1.5 – 2.0 Degrees Negative

What I got:

Left: 2degree 10' Neg
Right: 1degree 42' Neg



Is handling gonna be to pot for the road and chew hell outta the tyres?

id say half a degree diference is too much, but dont know how to sort!

[NZ_M3]

Something's not right ... I think the left hand side top shock mount may have been rotated incorrectly to give that sort of difference - check the arrows and see if it's pointing in the right direction (i.e. when they were fitting the KWs they rotated the top mount incorrectly - you can get 3 different type of camber readings by rotating the top mount, largest is circa -3 degrees and the other around the -2 degree mark - stock standard it should be around -1.5)

Or they forgot to install the locator pin back ... see here: http://m3.madrussian.net/diy_camber.shtml

The only other possibility is you have a bent top shock mount (common) given they are alloy.



I'd check all of the above.

[bryce]

I fitted them myself, and as far as i could see there's only one way to put the top mount back on as there is a locating pin.

How is there different ways to put the top mount back in?

Thank you.

[NZ_M3]

I fitted them myself, and as far as i could see there's only one way to put the top mount back on as there is a locating pin.

How is there different ways to put the top mount back in?

Thank you.

http://web.archive.org/web/20070115064230/http://e46m3performance.com/installs/strut-top/index.htm

[NZ_M3]

Possibly a bent top mount then or a worn top mount bush ...

over half a degree difference is too much ... the factory spec tolerance is +/- 0.2

You could always take the locator pin out and push the top mount outwards on the left hand side to give it more positive camber and more in line with the specs.

[bryce]

Factory tolerance I have is +/-0.45

Just checking them links just now.

[NZ_M3]

Factory tolerance I have is +/-0.45

Just checking them links just now.

Not according to the print out I have in front of me ...

I've got mine set up at -1.5 and -1.48 and that's considered pretty good.

[bryce]

Just read up on the madrussian link, and I see the pin is removeable so you can change camber. Ive not done this btw.

BUT :banghead:

I managed to mishape the locating hole where the factory pin comes through. Circled in this pic.

http://m3.madrussian.net/diy/camber/6.jpg

Is this probably the cause?

Whats the solution?

[NZ_M3]

I'd just take the locating pin out and push the strut outwards and see how close you can get both sides to match (I hope you did the geo with somebody in the driver seat) ... might explain the difference between left and right ... you'd get more camber on the right when you sit in the car if you didn't do it with someone in the driver seat.

[NZ_M3]

Here's the wheel alignment spec anyway ...

http://i115.photobucket.com/albums/n319/M3_Power/Wheel_Alignment_CSL.jpg

[bryce]

Just read that second link, helped explain alot - thanks.

I'd just take the locating pin out and push the strut outwards and see how close you can get both sides to match (I hope you did the geo with somebody in the driver seat) ... might explain the difference between left and right ... you'd get more camber on the right when you sit in the car if you didn't do it with someone in the driver seat

There's probaly a bit of movement with the locating pin still in now due to the mishaping - so I might leave it in for just now.

No - one was in the car when the geo was done I dont think. (Driver side is the right, your the same though anyway?)

So at ~2 left and ~1.5 right, when I jump in driver (RH) it should maybe even out?

[NZ_M3]

No - one was in the car when the geo was done I dont think. (Driver side is the right, your the same though anyway?)

So at ~2 left and ~1.5 right, when I jump in driver (RH) it should maybe even out?

Yep .. we are right hand drive here also.

It should even out with a person in the car. But best to do geo with a person in the car in the first instance.

[bryce]

Oh, and if I do try to fix this myself, is it going to mess up my geo settings altogether on the LH side - or will it just be the camber? And if so, thats just a max of 1degree maybe.

[bryce]

They may have done it with someone in the car but didnt witness it so cant say for sure.

edit: Im going to call the garage tomorrow to check. My rears are pretty much dead even though - so they might have done.

[NZ_M3]

Oh, and if I do try to fix this myself, is it going to mess up my geo settings altogether on the LH side - or will it just be the camber? And if so, thats just a max of 1degree maybe.

When you move camber it also changes toe (dynamic not static) ... so I'd get it on the machine again if you want it perfect.

[bryce]

When you move camber it also changes toe (dynamic not static) ... so I'd get it on the machine again if you want it perfect.

Ah buger :moan: Not what I wanted to hear. The garage should have called to tell me this and fixed it there and then :wanker: That'll explain why he wasnt for giving me the KDS printout til I asked for it.

What if it turns out no1 was in the car during KDS, is it worth adjusting now?

Would measuring where the top mount bolts are vs the other side give near acurrate results with the camber?

My current settings are:

Front
-2.1 Left
-1.42 Right

Rear
-1.53 Left
-1.47 Right

Im pressuming the rear camber also changes when I get my fat ass in the seat? :hahaha:

Apologies for the 21 questions, and many thanks for the advice :thumbs:

[bryce]

Just had a thought ( actually got out of bed to post this - I have issues )

Once Id installed the coils, and put my strut brace back on, I noticed things had moved slightly, like this -

http://m3.madrussian.net/diy/camber/9.jpg

If I can move it back to as near original as possible, this should be an improvement and lessen the negative camber. Taking it closer to the RH side degree of camber.

Off to bed now :smt015

[benCSL]

it's ok for me?
you are in bmw tolerance...

the difference between 2.10 and 1.42 is 28' .... tolerance was +/- 0.45'


for the rear i am 1.54 and 1.45.

[BMsport.com]

On the front I wanted:

1.5 – 2.0 Degrees Negative

What I got:

Left: 2degree 10' Neg
Right: 1degree 42' Neg



The reading you have is in degrees and minutes, the figures you wanted are decimal. 1degree 42' is 1.7 degrees of negative camber. As the photo suggests the pins have not been removed. If you remoe these you'll easily be able to equal your front camber.

[bryce]

Thank you Ben and BMsport.

I think I understand the difference between decimal and minute reading. Would I be right in saying for example. 30' = 0.6 degree 45 = 0.9degree?

So,
2deg10' = 2.2 degree
1deg42 = 1.7 degree

Isn't 0.5 degree too much difference to have between sides?

If I try fix this myself, will it totally mess up the geo or just slightly? Id just be guesstimating by looking at the markings on the strut brace.

[BMsport.com]

60minutes = 1 Degree so 30minutes = 0.5 degree

[bryce]

Thanks :thumbs:

So is 25mins too much between sides?

[BMsport.com]

Well if BMW tolerance is +/- 45minutes then it is in factory tolerance, how ever, removing the pin, you should be able to reduce the difference and equal the front camber.

[benCSL]

i am agree with Bmsport!

perfect ! :thumbs: