Nitron - Amazing customer service

[phoenixcsl]

Got an update on my Nitron saga.

So, as many of you know I have the NTR Sport Kit with Turner Motorsport Top mounts, making it a hybrid Sport Plus kit.

Anyway, after months of being unhappy with the handling of the car and the knocking noises which I never got to the bottom of, I decided to sell them and get a KW clubsport kit...so I popped an ad up on Pistonheads.

Last week I got an email from Nitron asking why I would want to swap their kit for KW's etc (they had seen my ad on PH), I replied to him and basically outlined all the issues i'd had with the kit and that I was unhappy with the way the car was etc.

He replied several times over the weekend, he even copied in the technical guy I had been speaking to (Ben) regarding the kit.

Basically the long and the short of it is, they don't want me to go to another suspension manufacturer, so they are going to set me up with full coilover rear units, matched to my front suspension, so new springs, helpers, perches etc, they are going to install it at their race workshops, re-camber, redo the geo and then perform another corner weighting session for me, all for a nominal charge, which is pittance compared to how much what they are doing for me is truly worth.

I have to say, in a world where customer service is falling apart, this is quite the opposite, all this from seeing my PH ad and finding out why I was unhappy with their suspension, to basically giving me a lot of upgrades and it's gone a long way to restoring faith, they didn't have to bother to say anything nor to help me out, so for that I am very impressed.

Roll on next week, i'm confident my car will be just as I want it after this :-D

[mattCSLnut]

Sounds very impressive and hats off to the Nitron crew for their most generous offer :thumbs: As you said, they didn't have to bother to say anything nor help you out.
Keep us posted on the progress.

[azrael]

I could have done with service like that

[83SY]

That's a bloody result. Example to all regarding looking after your customers! :thumbs:

Hoping your happy with the new kit & handling on rails... Let us know

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

Please correct me if I am wrong on this
from what was posted-

You have a Nitron Kit which was Coilover
front, spring shock rear, and when it was first
fitted Nitron did full Geo and Corner weighted
the car, ?

Then for why or what, Nitron agree to replace
rear Spring / Shock set up, with full rear coilover,
and then do another Geo and another Corner weight session
when new rear is fitted ?

Is that correct please ?

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[phoenixcsl]

Hi,

Please correct me if I am wrong on this
from what was posted-

You have a Nitron Kit which was Coilover
front, spring shock rear, and when it was first
fitted Nitron did full Geo and Corner weighted
the car, ?

Then for why or what, Nitron agree to replace
rear Spring / Shock set up, with full rear coilover,
and then do another Geo and another Corner weight session
when new rear is fitted ?

Is that correct please ?

Regards,

The Gorilla.

Evening apeman,

Yes, I have the NTR Sport Kit, with TMS top mounts, it is coilover front, but retails the barrel spring / separate shock in the rear with ride height perches, aka KW V3's etc.

I fitted the kit myself as I find that of thing quite simple, tried to set the car lower than standard but by not much, I was more interested in the rear being 10mm lower than the front.

So I had problems in the following areas:

1/ Ride Height, I could not get the rear ride height any lower than standard, wheelarch to bottom of rim was 606mm which is just above the KDS target.

2/ I also had rear knocking coming from the rear spring perches, so I bought new perches and rubber gaskets, knocking never went away.

3/ I then had the rear shocks serviced on the advice of Nitron technical support, unfortunately this made no difference to the knocking nor the ride height as was expected.

4/ The car felt very unstable at any speed over 70, this was because it was too high at the rear, so the car was raked over the front, if I raised the front, the ride height was similar to a standard E46 M3.

So I had a multitude of problems, I took the car to Simpsons, they re-set the ride height (603mm f&r), had a geo done, the camber sorted and a full corner weighting.

Again, the car felt unstable at speed, leaving me with no confidence in the handling.

So, I took it all back off, now back on standard suspension for now till this gets sorted.

Basically, the phone calls I have had from Nitron (Technical support and even one of the suspension chief engineers), they want to put a coilover on the rear, as the CSL is apparently optimal on this in terms of their products, so that is perches, spring and helper springs, the shock itself can accomodate this as all their products are modular.

My understanding of the kit I have after discussions with them, is that it is more suited to a normal M3 rather than a CSL, so if you have an additional 10% weight on the normal M3, they will be lower etc.

They are going to take off my old suspension, make the changes to the rear shocks, then re-install the coilovers, set the ride height (the coilover rear should give me more adjustment), perform a geo and re-corner weight the car, basically taking me to the next kit up from what I originally purchased.

They have said (which I have in writing), that if I am not happy with the changes, they will reimburse me for the money I am paying for this work, which seems entirely very good of them to do this.

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

Quote - ''My understanding of the kit I have after discussions with them, is that it is more suited to a normal M3 rather than a CSL''


I am really struggling to understand how or
why an acknowledged respected Suspension supplier
would even suggest this ?

The gross weight difference between the respective
cars for the type of use being discussed is
negligible, even more so when you consider that
the main differences between the 2 cars is
slightly shorter front springs.

The difference between the std damper rates does
not make a slightly lighter car unstable at speed,
and if this ''Kit'' is as well honed and dialled in
on std M3, which given the remarks so far, I
would seriously question, then making it work
on a slightly lighter version of the same car
should not be difficult.

In not knowing all the facts or components I would
still say that if you had left their Kit on the front
and returned the car to the std suspension on
the rear only, then you would not experince the
handling issues that you have.

I would guess that the spring / shock rates of their
kit are out, and from what you have said they
are to hard.

The rear needs to be compliant and thus a softer rear
will assist, even more so if the front has been made
stiffer.

Altering the rear ride height by lowering the car,
even by just a few mm does nothing much to
alter a spring rate that is to hard, and thus the rear will
''skit' at speed, as their is little compliance left
in the rear dampers, they are unable to function
as being retsricted by the hard springs and its the tyre side walls
now being asked to do most of the work.

On a Road/ Track car that is never really going to
happen at 30/35 tyre profile.

In F1 now most the leading teams run mega hard
front with really soft rear, even some RWD Touring Cars
are now adopting to very stiff front end, either via
dampers or very large front ARB's with much softer rears.

I would also guess that with their original 'kit' fitted you
would have improved the handling by undoing one
of the rear ARB links and letting the rear float.

Bit like taking the rear ARB off in the wet.

I have no doubt that your car will be better
handling with their ''coilover' rear fitted,
as they can a] alter spring rates, b]
fit tenders/helpers and mains, and c]
acheive this at the ride height required.

Incidentally does or did the original kit come
with adjustable ARB drop links front and rear ?

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[phoenixcsl]

I am really struggling to understand how or
why an acknowledged respected Suspension supplier
would even suggest this ?

The gross weight difference between the respective
cars for the type of use being discussed is
negligible, even more so when you consider that
the main differences between the 2 cars is
slightly shorter front springs.

In not knowing all the facts or components I would
still say that if you had left their Kit on the front
and returned the car to the std suspension on
the rear only, then you would not experince the
handling issues that you have.

I would guess that the spring / shock rates of their
kit are out, and from what you have said they
are to hard.

Incidentally does or did the original kit come
with adjustable ARB drop links front and rear ?

Regards,

The Gorilla.

Hi Mate,

Your knowledge of stuff is far above my primative level!

Ok, according to the designer chap, they do not recommend the Sport kit for the CSL as for the normal M3 they use a different spring rate and slightly different valving within the shock, to be fair to them, they have realised I have been mis-sold the kit, they recommend the next kit up Sport Plus and the new R series kits for the CSL.

Putting the oem rear shocks / springs back on might have made a diffference but I didn't think of it at the time.

I think the spring rates are possibly / most definitely out, we discussed the current front spring rates / helper rates on the phone and they said they will get some new springs etc for me next week when I go to see them, the rear springs are the standard esque barrel springs, they only do one rate for the M3 kit.

The front coilovers have Nitron's own adjustable drop links, the rears keep the standard ones.

Cheers
Toby

[shane@mbtech]

I know loads of people who have tried Nitron, with same issues as yourself.

Not only on BMW but lots of other marques.

[northernjim]

I only know 1 person that has used Nitrons, and his car felt really good around Donington:beer:


So good for Nitron, I don't think many manufacturers would go so far out of their way to help....


Hope you all get it sorted Toby:partyman:

[Bealo]

Good luck Toby and i hope Nitron gives you what you were after in the first place. :thumbs:

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

Quote- ''The front coilovers have Nitron's own adjustable drop links, the rears keep the standard ones.

If this is fact, then ask their Technical Guy,
that if the rear is now going to run at a
lower ride height, which is what you stated
you require, then upon Corner Weighting
the Car how do they intend to deal with
rear ARB Pre-Load ?

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[_Nathan_]

I had the first Nitron kit with a 10mm drop that they made for the Noble M12, few issues initially with it bottoming out but once sorted they were mega.

Had them on my TVR as well but you can't polish a turd :D

[shimmy]

?......

Had them on my TVR as well but you can't polish a turd :D



While you are going there, did Jim have them on his Focus STi?

[shimmy]

I know loads of people who have tried Nitron, with same issues as yourself.

Not only on BMW but lots of other marques.

I have said to quite a few guys that the early Nitron M3 and CSL kits were flawed. A few guys in LeonB with his CSL had similar issues with them, and even returned them.



I only know 1 person that has used Nitrons, and his car felt really good around Donington:beer:


So good for Nitron, I don't think many manufacturers would go so far out of their way to help....


Hope you all get it sorted Toby:partyman:

My Nitron was the Track NTR (full coilover). They were 2 separate way adjustable and therefore complicated to fine tune, but when I had them running at Donny they were performed ok until I started mucking around with them. Trouble is with 2 way you have to experiment a lot more to get the right settings whereas the valving and springs on then Intrax 1K2 seem to work perfect across the whole range.

[phoenixcsl]

So good for Nitron, I don't think many manufacturers would go so far out of their way to help....


Hope you all get it sorted Toby:partyman:

Cheers Jim, me too, I think it's very generous of them to help me out and for that hats off to them. :thumbs:

Good luck Toby and i hope Nitron gives you what you were after in the first place. :thumbs:

Thanks Stuart, fingers crossed it will be sorted...you owe me a ride in your Porker now btw :drool:

If this is fact, then ask their Technical Guy,
that if the rear is now going to run at a
lower ride height, which is what you stated
you require, then upon Corner Weighting
the Car how do they intend to deal with
rear ARB Pre-Load ?

Regards,

The Gorilla.

Gorillaman,

I think you should come with me and you can baboozle their techincal bods...I don't have the answer for that question...but my limited understanding is that things like KW V3's or Clubsports use the oem drop links at the rear, so surely cars with a lower than stock ride height using those would also face the same problem?

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

To properly corner weight ''any'' car
you must undo the ARB.

There must be no pre- load on the ARB.

You then corner weight and re-attach the
ARB.

But if the car runs lower than the stock ride
height by re-attaching the ARB with the
standard non adjustable drop links you automatically
alter the Corner weighting.

To retain the Corner weighting the ARB must
be attached with no pre-load

This is why I am really surprised that those
who are doing this for a Living seem either not
to understand or simply ignore basic Suspension
set up protocol.

If this 'Baboozle's'' Nitron then I am really Glad
that I have Intrax.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[shane@mbtech]

The kw kit comes with its own arb drop links.

At g man.

Most places do know what they are doing, but they are catering for the masses.
The masses that follow like sheep.

And for a road car/ track car IMO corner weighting to the gram is pointless.
Throw a passenger in, run 30 litres more fuel, etc etc and the corner weighting is out. There are too many variables with suspension setup ESP on a road car that negate the importance.

Majority won't know the difference anyhow.

I've driven cars with cheap coilovers that owners believe have transformed the cars handling. They are not lieing, but not transformed for the better, much made the car worse than stock. But because it's got coilovers on they believe it must be better.

[phoenixcsl]

If this 'Baboozle's'' Nitron then I am really Glad
that I have Intrax.

I will ask the question next week when I am there, it might not bamboozle Nitron, but it does me, but then I am a bit of a technical supsension retard (as it probably shows!) :clown:

[northernjim]

While you are going there, did Jim have them on his Focus STi?

You never experienced a ride in the blue banger did you :birdman:




My Nitron was the Track NTR (full coilover). They were 2 separate way adjustable and therefore complicated to fine tune, but when I had them running at Donny they were performed ok until I started mucking around with them. Trouble is with 2 way you have to experiment a lot more to get the right settings whereas the valving and springs on then Intrax 1K2 seem to work perfect across the whole range.

:whistle: I managed ok with my separate rebound and compression on my KW

[shimmy]

You never experienced a ride in the blue banger did you :birdman:


No but really would like to :-D, but never seen it not broken down tbh!





:whistle: I managed ok with my separate rebound and compression on my KW

But you is technically proficient where I is a pleb :wink: who has no idea about most things automotive.

[phoenixcsl]

What is the blue banger? is it a Fuckus RS?

[Bounce]

What is the blue banger? is it a Fuckus RS?Spot on:hahaha:

[s.mac]

Come on Bret...
It's an ST

[phoenixcsl]

Come on Bret...
It's an S.T.D

You mean that ;)

[karbonkid]

Glad to hear Nitron doing the right thing Toby.
My experience with them has been great previously. Im sure you will benefit from them.

Prev visit:
http://img607.imageshack.us/img607/5788/snv35191.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/607/snv35191.jpg/)

http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/5265/img0045ws.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/10/img0045ws.jpg/)

http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/3712/img0036yn.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/849/img0036yn.jpg/)

[Bounce]

Come on Bret...
It's an STI thought it was a Mk1 Fuckus RS.;)

[phoenixcsl]

Glad to hear Nitron doing the right thing Toby.
My experience with them has been great previously. Im sure you will benefit from them.

Me too Alex, fingers crossed they can dial the car in and the new rear setup works.

I'm looking forward to going up there and seeing their workshops. :thumbs:

btw my rear ride height was never as low as yours at the back looking at your 2nd pic.

[shimmy]

I thought it was a Mk1 Fuckus RS.;)

it never seemed to go as fast as most RS so i thought it was an ST

[Bounce]

it never seemed to go as fast as most RS so i thought it was an ST:hahaha:Maybe so,but it has a single exhaust tailpipe and STs have 2.thats the only way I can tell the differance.;)

[s.mac]

Jim always changes badges (chav) he took the st off and put RS now he's added an L to his new car :clown:
:gayfight:


Sorry to jump on this for my own benefit .... Mr G, are you saying all cars should run hard up front with a soft rear ?? I do run the csl like that

but I also run a front wheel drive car and run Leda with say 20 clicks back and front 1 soft 20 hard. I normally run between 6-9 from soft up front then 16-20 rear, 600lb springs front 800lb rears (coil overs)
In the wet I did find out ( the hard way) that I should of backed the rears right off , but is this all wrong ??
I'm also thinking of going 1000lb on rears?

[northernjim]

I am sorry about the divergence of this thread from its true purpose Toby




No but really would like to :-D, but never seen it not broken down tbh!


But you is technically proficient where I is a pleb :wink: who has no idea about most things automotive.

My car has only blown up the once in your esteemed company - la source at spa was not the most discreet place for it to happen mind.....



and if I was being nice I could say that if I can tweak suspension then so can you.... but I wasn't:birdman:


As for you two:wanker: :banghead::hahaha:

[shane@mbtech]

My post wasnt a dig at Nitron, as it seems they are wanting to and are working to get the kits 100% right. Its a learning curve, and their customer service is great (having dealt with them myself in the past)

I was just pointing out that I know of others on different marques and also BMW that have had the same issues as you.

Their premises are spot on too, had a great day there whilst having the kit fitted to a previous car.

Glad you are getting it all sorted

[phoenixcsl]

I am sorry about the divergence of this thread from its true purpose Toby

That's ok Jim you are forgiven, I'm getting the popcorn ready...

Are you still rocking round in the RS?

[phoenixcsl]

My post wasnt a dig at Nitron, as it seems they are wanting to and are working to get the kits 100% right. Its a learning curve, and their customer service is great (having dealt with them myself in the past)

I was just pointing out that I know of others on different marques and also BMW that have had the same issues as you.

Their premises are spot on too, had a great day there whilst having the kit fitted to a previous car.

Glad you are getting it all sorted

That's cool shane, I didn't think you were having a dig at them.

I am hoping they can do something to make it work, if not then i've tried everything possible to get them how I want them and it will be time for something new.

I'm looking forward to getting up there and checking out their premises as they look good and clinical.

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

Quote- Mr G, are you saying all cars should run hard up front with a soft rear ?? I do run the csl like that

but I also run a front wheel drive car and run Leda with say 20 clicks back and front 1 soft 20 hard. I normally run between 6-9 from soft up front then 16-20 rear, 600lb springs front 800lb rears (coil overs)
In the wet I did find out ( the hard way) that I should of backed the rears right off , but is this all wrong ??
I'm also thinking of going 1000lb on rears?


Not meaning to Thread Jack.

No, I am not saying that, I am saying that Front
engined RWD cars with approx 50/50 front to rear
weight ratio, ''if set up correctly;; are much more
compliant with stiffer front and softer rear.

On a Front wheel drive car, personally, I would
run as soft a front spring as I could, but with
the largest stiffest ARB I could fit.
I would run the rear springs stiffer but with
valving to the dampers which when turned/clicked
right up, they were stiffer.
I would run a rear ARB that was 'less' than std
in the dry, and 'removed' when wet.

A Smaller rear ARB with a little pre-load
dialled in will also assist on turn in.

As you know with front wheel drive its lift
off to correct, but if the front is way to stiff,
if you lift off mid corner with a very stiff front
end it will be 'skitting' all over the place
as there is no compliance in stiff coils
when there loaded up.

But with softer springs the car will be far more
fore giving and with a much larger stiffer ARB assisting
in keeping the cross axle dynamics loaded enough
so that you can keep the Tyre patch in contact.

You will have to play around with tyre pressures
as by running a softer front spring you may find
you need the front pressures up a little and the
rear a little lower.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[s.mac]

Thanks Mr G, one for me to digest :)


Jim, you know it's all true :wink: but we still love you (if that helps)
:clown:
:beer::beer::beer:

[NZ_M3]

The stock CSL setup actually has quite a bit of rack compared to the standard car. Nothing wrong with a bit of rack - if it's good enough for Adrian Newey and the Redbull RB6, 7 & 8 then it's good enough for me :-D

The stock rear shock as Mr G states actually has really soft damping when dyno'd, but very high rebound characteristics. Compared to the front shocks which has much more evenly distributed rebound and damping setting.

BMW sussed the suspension pretty well in stock form I have to say.

[northernjim]

but I also run a front wheel drive car and run Leda with say 20 clicks back and front 1 soft 20 hard. I normally run between 6-9 from soft up front then 16-20 rear, 600lb springs front 800lb rears (coil overs)
In the wet I did find out ( the hard way) that I should of backed the rears right off , but is this all wrong ??
I'm also thinking of going 1000lb on rears?

Do you know what this means Steve:whistle: