Supercharged = SLOW

[shimmy]

Just wondered why i have never seen a supercharged road going CSL or M3 on track or if i have why they havent stood out like a sore thumb by blasting past all of us!

Do they work?

[azrael]

Have seen a couple at track days Shim. They were pretty rapid iirc, certainly on the straights :) They weren't out for very long at a time though...

[s.mac]

there was one at Silverstone a couple of years ago, it was very VERY quick

[chrisburns]

Same here, I know of and have seen two S/C M3's over here and I can assure you they are both very rapid indeed.

[_Nathan_]

Loaded was quite fast

[maxmeerkat]

Thats because the supercharged M3s have nothing to prove......:blalalala:

[shimmy]

Thats because the supercharged M3s have nothing to prove......:blalalala:

im not convinced!

i think its either the car is no better or only slow drivers have them

:)

[alexk]

Loaded was quite fast

+1

CSL Loaded is very fast :supz:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgMR9OVEDIY

[giraffe]

Been out in e36 supercharged 1 few years ago and can confirm very very quick . Not sure how long standard drive train will last .

[shimmy]

I've driven Simpsons old sc M3 but still not convinced!

[magnust]

Vid from me in my 100% stock CSL (ok, black pagids upgrade + passenger :-D ) following ESS supercharged M3:

(disregard odd wind noise when not on gas)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1PzRWSpptw


I've driven the red one on another track and it IS fast.

[magnust]

Shimmy = TROLL?


:-D

[Yanto]

there was one at Silverstone a couple of years ago, it was very VERY quick

The one with the decals in the garage next door Steve..

Yup, recall it being quick but lacking reliability iirc

[Yanto]

Shimmy = TROLLY DOLLY


:-D

EFA

[glendog74]

Shimmy = TRANNY?


:-D

EFA... ;)

[shimmy]

Vid from me in my 100% stock CSL (ok, black pagids upgrade + passenger :-D ) following ESS supercharged M3:

(disregard odd wind noise when not on gas)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N1PzRWSpptw


I've driven the red one on another track and it IS fast.

So you can keep up with a sc M3 no worries, anybody else?

[maxmeerkat]

You are starting to sound like a certain " Baris" ........:hahaha:

[magnust]

So you can keep up with a sc M3 no worries, anybody else?
I can keep up with ANY supercar as long as the other driver is crappy enough :hahaha: The faster the supercar, the crappier the driver necessary.... :hahaha:

The guy in the red sc M3 is a good driver but he rarely pushes that last bit.

[Barry C]

my friend had an e46 M3 SC'd and it was properly fast in a straight line. my old stripped out e36 could pass e46's in a straight line but his just blew me away. I remember one time we were going to the ring and he raced a guy on a fast bike all the way to 190+ mph and the biker eventually backed off with a look of disbelief on his face:thumbs:

He now has an e92 SC'd. It's quick but I have a feeling he prefers my CSL:hahaha:

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

The main problem with S54 S/C is the
heat they generate.

I do not think I have seen a S/C S54 do
more than 3-4 continious laps at full chat without
having to slow down or stop to cool.

Even those with the larger front inter coolers
and water injection still suffer from
massive heat issues.
Whole engine block acts as a massive thermal
store so the only way to dissipate the heat
is to slow or stop, reason being is that the
Intercooler absorbs most the natural air cooling
that a N/A car obtains when all the temps start
maxing out.

Then with the increased heat, comes even more unreliability.


Vanos + SMG + S/Charged + 3 hard laps of the Spa =

''Ticking bomb''.


But-


Vanos + SMG + S/Charged + 3 hard laps of the Ring =

'' 2 spare laps''

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[maxmeerkat]

You`ve hit he nail on the head Gorilla.
My car starts to feel less rapid after 7 mins going around Coombe.
Stateside drivers are using methanol cooled systems now to compensate for this.
Most of these superchargers (especially the Vortech types) tends to make power and torque in the higher rev range (circa above 4000 rpm ) so its great down a long straight but unless you`re a great driver you`ll end up braking earlier and and praying for grip as you try and power out of it.
However on long fast circuits such as the nurburgring , i`m told heatsoak is not a major issue....:thumbs:

Oh and the whole system (supercharger and manifold )weights around 40kgs.
Anthony had the stage 1 VT2 supercharger kit which made about 400bhp on the DD. It would struggle to beat a CSL imho

[shimmy]

You`ve hit he nail on the head Gorilla.
My car starts to feel less rapid after 7 mins going around Coombe.
Stateside drivers are using methanol cooled systems now to compensate for this.
Most of these superchargers (especially the Vortech types) tends to make power and torque in the higher rev range (circa above 4000 rpm ) so its great down a long straight but unless you`re a great driver you`ll end up braking earlier and and praying for grip as you try and power out of it.
However on long fast circuits such as the nurburgring , i`m told heatsoak is not a major issue....:thumbs:

Oh and the whole system (supercharger and manifold )weights around 40kgs.
Anthony had the stage 1 VT2 supercharger kit which made about 400bhp on the DD. It would struggle to beat a CSL imho




AND WHAT DID I TELL YOU = SLOW!

if they last 7 minutes, the tyres are hardly warm!

[maxmeerkat]

Maybe i should stick a V8 engine in the car instead......:whistle:Or just stick to drag racing :clown:

[shane@mbtech]

Sc are for slow people who lack skill and need to be at the end of the straight 3 seconds Ahead so they can only be 1 second behind coming out of the corner. :birdman:

[shane@mbtech]

Ps why do you think I bought Gtr etc.

I'm shit too:gayfight:

[CraigMillwardCroft]

Sc are for slow people who lack skill and need to be at the end of the straight 3 seconds Ahead so they can only be 1 second behind coming out of the corner. :birdman:
:hahaha::hahaha::hahaha:

[LeinsCSL]

I will be talking to someone next week who has a s/c CSL over here, and going to try and get them down to Munich next year

And he's far from slow on track, even in a standard (my) CSL

[shimmy]

Sc are for slow people who lack skill and need to be at the end of the straight 3 seconds Ahead so they can only be 1 second behind coming out of the corner. :birdman:



:thumbs:

[alexk]

I am planning to put a SC to my Z3 coupe shimmy.

It's going to be interesting :partyman:

[shane@mbtech]

I am planning to put a SC to my Z3 coupe shimmy.

It's going to be interesting :partyman:

It will be good to get a comparison between the 2.

[ChrisCSL]

watch from 2:20 for comparison on the straight:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlpbPJfaYjM&feature=related

[shane@mbtech]

watch from 2:20 for comparison on the straight:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlpbPJfaYjM&feature=related

What power is that, judging from the vid, I would say 390-400.

My standard e92 m3 pulled away from CSL, much quicker than that.

Im not convinced, its not worth the headaches IMO. Been there done that with jap shit.

The loaded CSL is quick yes, but how much is down to SC, and how much is down to chassis, brake, suspension, wheel, tyre upgrades.

[shimmy]

Sorry, but as far as I can see the n/a camera car is quicker than the s/c silver m3.

Granted the s/c pulls 2-3 car lengths but a decent GT3 can do that on a CSL on as slow exit corner and is no more than +2-3/10s a lap. Otherwise the camera car is all over him.

[shimmy]

The loaded CSL is quick yes, but how much is down to SC, and how much is down to chassis, brake, suspension, wheel, tyre upgrades.

Easy worked out Lawsy, just take a well driven E46M3 VLN car and compare with Loaded CSL and the difference will be the supercharger.

[magnust]

Loaded is not stripped out so it's probably heavier than a well stripped out lightened VLN racecar.

[magnust]

watch from 2:20 for comparison on the straight:

>VIDEO<

Very odd choices of driving lines in some places.... Out on the straight for one.

[alexk]

Easy worked out Lawsy, just take a well driven E46M3 VLN car and compare with Loaded CSL and the difference will be the supercharger.

The Loaded car is fully TUV certified and has front/rear seats, normal windows, a stereo etc.
I am not saying the suspension + brake upgrades are not making a difference, but these are not the only ones responsible for the 7.22m FULL lap in damp conditions.

[magnust]

Hi,

The main problem with S54 S/C is the
heat they generate.

I do not think I have seen a S/C S54 do
more than 3-4 continious laps at full chat without
having to slow down or stop to cool.

Even those with the larger front inter coolers
and water injection still suffer from
massive heat issues.
Whole engine block acts as a massive thermal
store so the only way to dissipate the heat
is to slow or stop, reason being is that the
Intercooler absorbs most the natural air cooling
that a N/A car obtains when all the temps start
maxing out.

Then with the increased heat, comes even more unreliability.


Vanos + SMG + S/Charged + 3 hard laps of the Spa =

''Ticking bomb''.


But-


Vanos + SMG + S/Charged + 3 hard laps of the Ring =

'' 2 spare laps''

Regards,

The Gorilla.

I remember Loaded had heat issues in it's earliest years (change of headers was one thing I remember that solved issues). But AFAIK all heat issues were solved. The times I've driven it - which has been on Swedish tracks with far from optimal conditions for keeping everything cool - I haven't noticed any heat issues or gradual loss of power at all.

[alexk]

I remember Loaded had heat issues in it's earliest years (change of headers was one thing I remember that solved issues). But AFAIK all heat issues were solved. The times I've driven it - which has been on Swedish tracks with far from optimal conditions for keeping everything cool - I haven't noticed any heat issues or gradual loss of power at all.

:notworthy::thumbs::notworthy::thumbs::notworthy:

[toplad]

What power is that, judging from the vid, I would say 390-400.

.

Agreed

You need a lot more power to pull away once rolling at speed.

30-60 extra BHP doesn't make much difference.

You need an extra 100 BHP to notice a difference at speed.

[CraigMillwardCroft]

Sorry, but as far as I can see the n/a camera car is quicker than the s/c silver m3.

Granted the s/c pulls 2-3 car lengths but a decent GT3 can do that on a CSL on as slow exit corner and is no more than +2-3/10s a lap. Otherwise the camera car is all over him.
+1 :whistle:

[83SY]

Im not a fan of Super charging an M3. Spend the money on tyres, suspension & Brakes & learn how to drive imo :whistle:

[AlexGTT]

Modifying N/A cars to forced induction is all OK in the short term. However, expose them to extended trackwork and as Gorilla said, they soon generate heat and stresses the car is not designed to cope with. Not just engine but gearbox's, diff's and all sorts of other things start to go wrong.

Put a S/C CSL/M3 up against a CSL on one or two laps and it'll probably toast the std car. Give it death for 8 or 9 lap sessions all day at Spa in 25 degree ambients and see which car is still out there having fun at the end of the day?

Give me a bog standard drivetrain with stronger brakes, proper tyres, sorted suspension and good geo all day long.:wink:

[maxmeerkat]

^^^ You forgot to mention better oil cooling......;)

[AlexGTT]

^^^ You forgot to mention better oil cooling......;)

Ah yeah, and oil cooling..................etc.:wink:

[magnust]

Modifying N/A cars to forced induction is all OK in the short term. However, expose them to extended trackwork and as Gorilla said, they soon generate heat and stresses the car is not designed to cope with. Not just engine but gearboxes, diffs and all sorts of other things start to go wrong.

Put a S/C CSL/M3 up against a CSL on one or two laps and it'll probably toast the std car. Give it death for 8 or 9 lap sessions all day at Spa in 25 degree ambients and see which car is still out there having fun at the end of the day?

Give me a bog standard drivetrain with stronger brakes, proper tyres, sorted suspension and good geo all day long.:wink:

Still, if you do upgrade the brakes, diff and surprisingly few other pieces a SC M3 or CSL will hold up surprisingly well to hard track use once sorted out. And in the end, having 100-150 extra hp is never *wrong*. But not all of us think it's worth the cost :)

[shimmy]

Still, if you do upgrade the brakes, diff and surprisingly few other pieces a SC M3 or CSL will hold up surprisingly well to hard track use once sorted out. And in the end, having 100-150 extra hp is never *wrong*. But not all of us think it's worth the cost :)

So where are all these s/c m3 screaming around the tracks wiping the floor with us standard m3s?

[magnust]

So where are all these s/c m3 screaming around the tracks wiping the floor with us standard m3s?

There's a whole bunch of S/C M3's here in Sweden but all but like... ehhhrmm, two of them don't go to track days. I'm speculating here but I don't think that says S/C is a bad idea per se but more a reflection of different types of owners. Some owners are in to styling, some like competing with huge sound systems, some love to tinker with their car even more than driving it and some oddballs like to drive round and round all day on an asphalt patch.

[shimmy]

There's a whole bunch of S/C M3's here in Sweden but all but like... ehhhrmm, two of them don't go to track days. I'm speculating here but I don't think that says S/C is a bad idea per se but more a reflection of different types of owners. Some owners are in to styling, some like competing with huge sound systems, some love to tinker with their car even more than driving it and some oddballs like to drive round and round all day on an asphalt patch.

Granted, but I'm lookin for some of the 'oddballs' to chase:thumbs:

[maxmeerkat]

These cars thrive in a cold environment like sweden.....:whistle:Book me in for the next swedish track day shimmy.:-D

[magnust]

Granted, but I'm lookin for some of the 'oddballs' to chase:thumbs:
Aahhhh, so finally the true agenda for the thread is revealed :hahaha: :hahaha: :hahaha: :thumbs:

[magnust]

Not everyone drives their sportscar on track at all, let alone drive it close to it's full potential on track. One part of me is sad about this but then again to each their own, full respect to each and everyone. We are all different.

So I must say, each time I do come across a fast really expensive supercar that is driven close to it's full potential on a normal track day by a car enthusiast.... it makes me *very* satisfied and happy to see!

The flip side is there are on many track days often plenty of should-be-faster cars which you can catch up. I don't miss the opportunity to feel good and boost my driving ego when that happens. But deep down I know it's not too much to brag about in my own head, but in life always make the most of it and be proud and happy nevertheless :-D :-D :-D

[shane@mbtech]

Not everyone drives their sportscar on track at all, let alone drive it close to it's full potential on track. One part of me is sad about this but then again to each their own, full respect to each and everyone. We are all different.

So I must say, each time I do come across a fast really expensive supercar that is driven close to it's full potential on a normal track day by a car enthusiast.... it makes me *very* satisfied and happy to see!

The flip side is there are on many track days often plenty of should-be-faster cars which you can catch up. I don't miss the opportunity to feel good and boost my driving ego when that happens. But deep down I know it's not too much to brag about in my own head, but in life always make the most of it and be proud and happy nevertheless :-D :-D :-D


Apart from the occasional GT3/rs etc the only supercar I have seen driven properly was a 430 scud @ at Oulton park. And it was fantastic to see a car being driven like it was intended:supz: