GROUP BUY - Oil Cooler?

[shimmy]

I am going to fit an increased capacity oil cooler this spring as it is obvious to me that the S54 in the m3/CSL suffers from too much heat.

I have a few different in mind, mainly US based and if we buy a few instead of one we can get prices well below face value, you never know we might be able to find someday of avoiding some import duty.........

I think we are talking about £400 plus tax and post before discounts so £600 ish.

I am currently looking for direct replacements for OEM COOLERS but I'm speaking to Simpsons next week and maybe looking at secondary coolers.

Anybody interested and I'll post up some ideas and options? :smokin:

[Bounce]

Turner motorsport do an uprated oil cooler for the E46 M3/CSL Shim.

[Bounce]

Or this one:smokin:http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/images/products/hpf/oilcooler/hpfoilcooler13.jpg

[mattCSLnut]

Or this one:smokin:http://www.horsepowerfreaks.com/images/products/hpf/oilcooler/hpfoilcooler13.jpg
How teeny tiny & pathetic :clown: does that OEM oil cooler look ? :bigcry:

[mattCSLnut]

What about this offering from CA Automotive Shim ?

http://ca-int.co.uk/single_prod-cHJvZF9pZD0xOTYxJmNhcl9tYWtlPWJtdyZjYXJfdHlwZT1lMz YmY2F0X2lkPTcmY29tcF9pZD04.html

[shimmy]

That one Brett is not for S54 and I think a Simpsons alternate using a Mota cooler would try to do the same thing but you have problem with space ESP if you have a/c rad

OPTIONS to replace OEM are Turner, Fluidyne, Bimmerworld, HPF

All are a little bit different but I think the BIMMERWORLD one is best and cheapest and direct replacement, longer and double pass cooler.

http://store.bimmerworld.com/bimmerworldcr-racing-e46-m3-oil-cooler-p1517.aspx

http://maxcdn.nexternal.com/bimmerworl/images/E46M_Cooler_5001.jpg

CA do sell one but it's nearly £1000

the HPF one comes with or without the ducting which on M3 is not required so $100 cheaper.

[mattCSLnut]

CA do sell one but it's nearly £1000


The CA link shows a kit for E46 M3 @ £498 inc VAT :smt017

http://ca-int.co.uk/single_prod-cHJvZF9pZD0xOTYxJmNhcl9tYWtlPWJtdyZjYXJfdHlwZT1lMz YmY2F0X2lkPTcmY29tcF9pZD04.html

[Bounce]

A few more pics http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=792079

[shimmy]

The CA link shows a kit for E46 M3 @ £498 inc VAT :smt017

http://ca-int.co.uk/single_prod-cHJvZF9pZD0xOTYxJmNhcl9tYWtlPWJtdyZjYXJfdHlwZT1lMz YmY2F0X2lkPTcmY29tcF9pZD04.html

Yes sorry Matt, it is S54 and an option but I think if possible on our cars with a/c Simpson could do this cheaper, BUT I am not sure more package to the water rad is the best solution. It is already very congested,


A few more pics http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=792079

Cheers Brett

The HPF with duct is mainly to pickup air from under the car on cars fitted with s/c I think I read somewhere. I think for standard NA cars you don't need the very nice duct so $100 cheaper.


In my reading so far it's not just capacity that makes cooling better but the way the cooler works. It seems double pass is the better way to go but still reading

[cantfind1]

I am in if its the Bimmerworld one.. Have heard very good things about this one...

[cantfind1]

Or this kit

http://store.vacmotorsports.com/vac---e46-m3-racing-oil-cooler-heat-exchanger-upgrade-kit-p1446.aspx

[shimmy]

yep definitely an option, and cheaper:)

[alexk]

What happens to the oil pressure when you fit a cooler which is much bigger ?

[shane@mbtech]

What happens to the oil pressure when you fit a cooler which is much bigger ?

Depends on various things, design, pipe diameter etc etc.

There will be an effect yes, so going with a tried and tested researched unit is paramount. Some coolers will have negligible effect on pressure, others will drop it too much.

[alexk]

Depends on various things, design, pipe diameter etc etc.

There will be an effect yes, so going with a tried and tested researched unit is paramount. Some coolers will have negligible effect on pressure, others will drop it too much.

As far as I know the factory oil cooler doesn't have a thermostat.
Putting a bigger cooler (more efficient) will definitely drop the temperature which is a good thing when the car is used in a racetrack.
In all other situations (motorway) I am sure the oil temp will be quite low, especially in countries that it's not so hot.
Adding here the oil pressure drop, I think this upgrade will create more problems than it will solve.
So I believe it's a good upgrade if you are using the car only for trackdays and nothing else.

[cantfind1]

Thermostat is fitted in the oil filter housing, I have removed mine and replaced with a oil diverter valve........allows 100% of the oil to pass to the cooler 100% of the time....

similar to this

http://store.bimmerworld.com/e36e46-oil-cooler-diverter-valve-p980.aspx

[cantfind1]

Thermostat is fitted in the oil filter housing, I have removed mine and replaced with a oil diverter valve........allows 100% of the oil to pass to the cooler 100% of the time....

similar to this

http://store.bimmerworld.com/e36e46-oil-cooler-diverter-valve-p980.aspx

Oil pressure will remain the same with a bigger cooler, you will just increase the oil capacity of the engine. But not by much. ie depends on cooler size over OEM.

[AlexGTT]

Thermostat is fitted in the oil filter housing, I have removed mine and replaced with a oil diverter valve........allows 100% of the oil to pass to the cooler 100% of the time....

similar to this

http://store.bimmerworld.com/e36e46-oil-cooler-diverter-valve-p980.aspx

For most I would not advise this. Much better to retain standard stat for road and track use. I'd only consider diverter for race application.

The big cooler I use has the same dimension pipe internals, connections, etc. so oil pressure is not affected. Only difference is a slight drop in oil level after dealer oil changes. This is only noted after full warm up with thermostatic valve opened. About 1/2 litre extra required to maintain correct sump level AFTER the cooler circuit has opened.

My interim oil changes at Simpson's include a run to warm to temperature, re-check level and top up to account for it.

[northernjim]

For most I would not advise this. Much better to retain standard stat for road and track use. I'd only consider diverter for race application.

The big cooler I use has the same dimension pipe internals, connections, etc. so oil pressure is not affected. Only difference is a slight drop in oil level after dealer oil changes. This is only noted after full warm up with thermostatic valve opened. About 1/2 litre extra required to maintain correct sump level AFTER the cooler circuit has opened.

My interim oil changes at Simpson's include a run to warm to temperature, re-check level and top up to account for it.

Does the oil in the cooler drain out when changing the oil Alex?

I'd heard that some coolers retain their oil when it's dropped during a change????

( forgive me if that all sounds stupid- but what do you expectfrom me!?!)

[AlexGTT]

Does the oil in the cooler drain out when changing the oil Alex?

I'd heard that some coolers retain their oil when it's dropped during a change????

( forgive me if that all sounds stupid- but what do you expectfrom me!?!)

I think some might be retained Jim. But, every oil change since I've changed requires just under 1/2 litre over normal capacity.

[shimmy]

Anybody else....after talking to Simpsons next week we will be ordering:thumbs:

[AlexGTT]

Anybody else....after talking to Simpsons next week we will be ordering:thumbs:

Sensible mod chaps. Get on-board.:thumbs:

[cantfind1]

Anybody else....after talking to Simpsons next week we will be ordering:thumbs:

What one are we ordering??

[shimmy]

What one are we ordering??

:)

was gonna speak to Ant but snow has postponed last two visits. next week now

[DuncanR]

Im in for this, but fooked if I know which option, there appears to be good and bad points with most.:banghead:

[AlexGTT]

Im in for this, but fooked if I know which option, there appears to be good and bad points with most.:banghead:

It's like most things. Cheap is cheap for a reason. Mine has been fabulous and it's been on for over 2 years.

[0-60Motorsports]

The Bimmerworld oil cooler is great, it fits in the oem location and has the increased capacity we require for our S54s. U'll be getting mine probably next month. If any of you need help with a GB from Bimmerworld get in touch with me and I'll see what i can do. Cheers.

[CraigMillwardCroft]

What price is it any body know yet :thumbs:

[rstoughy]

As above, also which one?? the bimmerworld one looks and reads well :smokin:

[shimmy]

The Bimmerworld oil cooler is great, it fits in the oem location and has the increased capacity we require for our S54s. U'll be getting mine probably next month. If any of you need help with a GB from Bimmerworld get in touch with me and I'll see what i can do. Cheers.

What price is it any body know yet :thumbs:

As above, also which one?? the bimmerworld one looks and reads well :smokin:

I spoke to Julian briefly and he said standard fittings and OEM hanger and size to avoid costly fitting.

It's not so much the capacity but the way the unit is built to ensure more area to air cool and also the way the oil flows to try to get twin cooling.

I'll read all this thru after weekend and make a list again with prices. I have already emailed the suppliers but they are rubbish at sending out info to back up their claims. My guess is that most of these were to bench or dyno tested to show the increased cooling so first hand experience will be good. Someone who has fitted them OEM and run them in v hot climates.

[0-60Motorsports]

Unfortunately I wont be able to tell about my experiences with the BW oil cooler till MAY/JUNE/JULY as thats when it'll be very hot here......125f and 100% humidity.

[maxmeerkat]

Recently at Pembrey, my car suffered quite a bit with heatsoak - saw oil temps rise up to 125deg :119:. Have also noticed that since removing the heater/cooling matrix form the car , oil temps at idling would be close to 100deg (never used to be this high before).

Since this group buy fizzled out, i decided to buy the VAC motorsport oil cooler as there was a price drop. Its supposed to be 23% more efficient that oem and has the all important double pass cooling with " wavy fin technology " :-D
On initial impressions , the cooler looks quite similar to oem and you`re left wondering how this also has an increased oil capacity compared to oem!
Anthony was very unimpressed with the size! :whistle:
Nevertheless , after a quick install ( 1hour job including oil filter and oil change) i`ve noticed that temps are now lower than they used to be after prolonged driving ie less by 10-15deg
Only time on the track will tell if this efficiency persists......

PS: you can buy the 10 A/N adaptors but i would advise against wasting your money unless you need longer oil hoses. VAC also charge quite a bit for postage compared to Turner MS......:mad:

[shimmy]

cheers

let us know if overheat comes back!

im gonna try to fix mine by finding the failt first but still might fit cooler in winter

[M369]

I have ordered one to Hpf with discount price
With this group buy
http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?p=14533907#post14533907

[0-60Motorsports]

Yup HPF is awesome. tried and tested on a SCed ESS CSL by us :)

[M369]

You have 2 version 1 for M3 supercharged or turbo And 1 for thé other M3

[0-60Motorsports]

You have 2 version 1 for M3 supercharged or turbo And 1 for thé other M3

Yes they have two versions. The one for the FI applications comes with a scoop. Thats the only difference between the two. The cores are the same on both applications (FI or NA)

[karbonkid]

One has been on the cards for me for some time and just come across this. Infact I spoke to Mocal yesterday and they're getting back to me soon to see what they can do but these options look interesting.

Anyone actually taken delivery of one yet?

[maxmeerkat]

Ok, was at coombe yesterday with ambient temps of 18-20 deg. Ragged the car for 30 mins ( occassionally in 3rd but mostly in 4 and 5th gear) and the oil temp needle was dead centre :) So far, this Vac oil cooler is doing its job............
Good heads up on the HPF cooler as its at a very competitive price!

[83SY]

:thumbs:

[need4speed]

Bought the HPF Cooler last week when I was in the US, unfortunately won't get time to fit it before Silverstone!

[0-60Motorsports]

My BIMMER WORLD Oil cooler install......

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showpost.php?p=1065499089&postcount=243

[Mike R]

Bought the HPF Cooler last week when I was in the US, unfortunately won't get time to fit it before Silverstone!

Can you report on how you got on with this? Muchos grassy arse ;).

[0-60Motorsports]

Can you report on how you got on with this? Muchos grassy arse ;).

HPF is no more. Stick with the Bimmerworld oil cooler. Its awesome, I got it and it stands up just fine ins 125f and humid weather.

[trackm3]

I can get a nice big cooler made, bit like a turner and an HPf cooler, uses std Lines

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c258/trackm3/e46oilcooler_zps51287d86.jpg (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/trackm3/media/e46oilcooler_zps51287d86.jpg.html)

[0-60Motorsports]

Very Nice. Remember the bigger the cooler the harder it is for the air to pass through hence when your on track the cooling works very well. When on street it works like oem. Also it takes a bit longer for the oil to reach operating temps. heres what James @ Bimmerworld told me:

It is thicker and therefore air doesn’t flow as well through it (or around it) – especially in more static conditions. The intent of the part is better cooling under hard use/faster speeds, so to keep temps from pegging the right side, not to keep them in the middle during idle.

[Mike R]

HPF is no more. Stick with the Bimmerworld oil cooler. Its awesome, I got it and it stands up just fine ins 125f and humid weather.

What temps are you seeing on track compared to the original?

[Mike R]

I can get a nice big cooler made, bit like a turner and an HPf cooler, uses std Lines

http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c258/trackm3/e46oilcooler_zps51287d86.jpg (http://s29.photobucket.com/user/trackm3/media/e46oilcooler_zps51287d86.jpg.html)

As above - what temps does this produce on track?

[0-60Motorsports]

havent been on track, dont get the time. i'll try in november. but ont he highway with 125f weather it drops below half real fast. in traffic its a tiny bit above half like oem.

[trackm3]

As above - what temps does this produce on track?

let me get the figures from a few Kumho races as I have one fitted to Richard Bacons race car

[Mike R]

let me get the figures from a few Kumho races as I have one fitted to Richard Bacons race car

Is this a twin pass in the same way that the Bimmerworld one works (as in the hot oil runs through the back of the cooler first)?

[trackm3]

Mike, why do them there yanks do that ?
mine works as per the std cooler,so you have the inlet which is either the top or bottom then split into an upper and lower section then out through again either the top or bottom, so the whole depth of the radiator is cooling the hot oil ?

[Mike R]

Mike, why do them there yanks do that ?
mine works as per the std cooler,so you have the inlet which is either the top or bottom then split into an upper and lower section then out through again either the top or bottom, so the whole depth of the radiator is cooling the hot oil ?

It works more efficiently on a deep oil cooler.

As the air passes through a deep oil cooler, the air heats up in the heat exchange process, which means that the oil at the back of the cooler isn't cooled as efficiently (due to the rise in temp of the air above ambient) which means the overall temperature reduction isn't as good.

By making it twin pass, the oil coming out of the engine runs through the core that is at the back of the cooler, and despite being only cooled by the warm air, because it is at a high temp, the warm air is still sufficient to reduce the temps by a reasonable amount. It then runs through the core that is at the front of the cooler, which is cooled by ambient air, which then drops the temp further. What this set up achieves is that ALL the oil is reduced to a set temperature.

Your arrangement will have a mixture of hot oil and warm oil, which will keep the temp higher. This is why normal air to air coolers are thin with a large surface area (but this creates packaging issues).

[trackm3]

Mike, the Americans have done a good marketing campaign on that then, I would need to do a proper comparison to be sure on this one so I may well order one just to do a test as my guy can easily change that he just does my type on all his applications even on current BTCC cars, the race car we run it on used to run up to the top mark on the temp guage now it runs between 1/2 and 3/4 which they are happy with


It works more efficiently on a deep oil cooler.

As the air passes through a deep oil cooler, the air heats up in the heat exchange process, which means that the oil at the back of the cooler isn't cooled as efficiently (due to the rise in temp of the air above ambient) which means the overall temperature reduction isn't as good.

By making it twin pass, the oil coming out of the engine runs through the core that is at the back of the cooler, and despite being only cooled by the warm air, because it is at a high temp, the warm air is still sufficient to reduce the temps by a reasonable amount. It then runs through the core that is at the front of the cooler, which is cooled by ambient air, which then drops the temp further. What this set up achieves is that ALL the oil is reduced to a set temperature.

Your arrangement will have a mixture of hot oil and warm oil, which will keep the temp higher. This is why normal air to air coolers are thin with a large surface area (but this creates packaging issues).

[northernjim]

Mike, the Americans have done a good marketing campaign on that then, I would need to do a proper comparison to be sure on this one so I may well order one just to do a test as my guy can easily change that he just does my type on all his applications even on current BTCC cars, the race car we run it on used to run up to the top mark on the temp guage now it runs between 1/2 and 3/4 which they are happy with

When you think about it Martin, the twin pass design makes the oil pass thru twice the length of radiator than a normal one does- it also halves the depth, so like mike says - it is a more efficient, if more complicated design. Back to back test results would be interesting to see.

Can your man make a twin pass that isn't exhorbitantly expensive?

[trackm3]

There all twin pass Jim, mine passes along the top section then the lower section to the outlet, there one passes the rear first then the front section snd out, I don't see there's much if any difference ? We can make a smaller cooler cheaper but the core we use is horendously expensive



When you think about it Martin, the twin pass design makes the oil pass thru twice the length of radiator than a normal one does- it also halves the depth, so like mike says - it is a more efficient, if more complicated design. Back to back test results would be interesting to see.

Can your man make a twin pass that isn't exhorbitantly expensive?

[Mike R]

I've sent off an enquiry to the Bimmerworld guys - does anyone want to tag on to this?

[sydown]

I would be interested in an oil cooler, obviously dependent on price, at the advertised price on Bimmerworld.com it works out to over £800 on the doorstep which is a bit too steep for me!!
(£563.19 + P&P (66.50) + customs duty (I guess 7%) + VAT)

[0-60Motorsports]

Guys, i can speak to James at BW and see if we can arrange a group buy for you? would need to know how many people are genuinely interested first though.

[adem.csl]

Im interested if the price is right!

[Marc]

Any news on group buy price? Im interested, going to states next week want to bring one home.

[Mike R]

Any news on group buy price? Im interested, going to states next week want to bring one home.

Adem and I have ours (arrived yesterday), ended up being £725 inc all charges :). Mine gets fitted next weekend, but I don't know when my next track day will be after it has been fitted to report on how effective it is.

[0-60Motorsports]

Adem and I have ours (arrived yesterday), ended up being £725 inc all charges :). Mine gets fitted next weekend, but I don't know when my next track day will be after it has been fitted.

You'll like the fitment. its OEM.

[Marc]

Adem and I have ours (arrived yesterday), ended up being £725 inc all charges :). Mine gets fitted next weekend, but I don't know when my next track day will be after it has been fitted to report on how effective it is.

Can I ask the price for the cooler you paid? Was it a dicount over their list price

[Mike R]

Can I ask the price for the cooler you paid? Was it a dicount over their list price

Yes, being in the trade, I got a suitable discount. Worked out at US$791.97 each if I ordered more than one.

[adem.csl]

Itching to see mine this weekend!!wont be fitting it till end of year along with a box full other goodies!!!
Thank you soo much mike for putting them together getting them home quick
Thank you!

[Mike R]

Got Gareth to fit mine yesterday when car went in for oil change and sub-frame check.

Obviously not done a track day yet, but have already noticed an improvement. At low speed it sits exactly where the OE item does (around 100 deg), but as soon as there is any airflow through it, it drops to in between 75 deg and 100 deg (so 87 ish).

Took Gareth 30 mins to fit, so really is a direct swap for the OE item. Obviously a track day will be the true test, as it sat around 125 with the OE item.