BMW Performance Brakesystem

[Levente]

Would you guys suggest these brakes for the csl? Its BMW Performance Brakes 6 piston

http://www.e46fanatics.de/attachments/felgen-reifen-und-bremsen/3722d1265308706-bmw-performance-bremse-6-kolben-brembo-bmw-performance-brake-kit-e46-m3-csl-cs-mz4.jpg

http://www.roadfly.com/new-cars/wp-content/uploads/gallery/bmw-concept-1-series-tii/bmw-tii-concept-rim-caliper.jpg

[E46CSL]

Depends if they are good as AP's, Brembos, Alcons & would fitting these to a CSL still count as a modification?

[mattCSLnut]

Depends if they are good as AP's, Brembos, Alcons & would fitting these to a CSL still count as a modification?

IIRC they are made by "BREMBO" for BMW Performance range. I've heard they are OK for fast road use (a vast improvement over the stock single piston nonsense ) but not so good for prolonged TD work... something to do with piston seals melting out :banghead:

[CraigMillwardCroft]

Really good brakes then :hahaha::hahaha:

[Martin_BG]

Levente you may wanna contact this guy http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=393210 for some more info :beer:
Wonder, why will he take them off....:whistle:

[Bounce]

Dont think they fit straight onto a CSL.

[mattCSLnut]

Dont think they fit straight onto a CSL.
IIRC extra bracket solutions are required :banghead:

[Bounce]

IIRC extra bracket solutions are required :banghead:Thought so,as i looked into getting them:banghead: did you need extra brackets with yours Matt.

[Bounce]

Price includes CSL discs http://www.bmminiparts.com/PartDetails.aspx?InventoryId=951E7AF8-FD03-4517-8F43-415E3EAC67D1

[mattCSLnut]

Thought so,as i looked into getting them:banghead: did you need extra brackets with yours Matt.

Yep :smokin:

[Levente]

thanks for the info, i want to buy it in one of the BMW service in München, hopefully it doesnt cost as much as the Brembo Gran Turismo brakes. Is it possible to buy it seperate , i mean buy Replace only the front brakes, and replace the back ones later? I cant belive the stock csl brakes are so crap

[mattCSLnut]

thanks for the info... I cant belive the stock csl brakes are so crap

It's mainly the CSL OEM pads that are so crap. Put some decent after market pads like PAGID or Performance Friction then change your OEM rubber brake lines to Goodridge stainless steel lines and maybe upgrade your brake fluid to ATS Super Blue Racing or MOTUL RBF 660.
Any of these three simple mods or the combination of all three will vastly improve the OEM crapness :clown: and will be perfect for every day/fast road use as well as occasional Track Day :smokin:

[shimmy]

It's mainly the CSL OEM pads that are so crap. Put some decent after market pads like PAGID or Performance Friction then change your OEM rubber brake lines to Goodridge stainless steel lines and maybe upgrade your brake fluid to ATS Super Blue Racing or MOTUL RBF 660.
Any of these three simple mods or the combination of all three will vastly improve the OEM crapness :clown: and will be perfect for every day/fast road use as well as occasional Track Day :smokin:


I disagree a little Matt, it's the cooling of the whole system that's not up to much. Stopping power is ok, but heat just ruins them on track.

[Levente]

It's mainly the CSL OEM pads that are so crap. Put some decent after market pads like PAGID or Performance Friction then change your OEM rubber brake lines to Goodridge stainless steel lines and maybe upgrade your brake fluid to ATS Super Blue Racing or MOTUL RBF 660.
Any of these three simple mods or the combination of all three will vastly improve the OEM crapness :clown: and will be perfect for every day/fast road use as well as occasional Track Day :smokin:

not only the pads, but only one piston brakes? what were they thinking? im suprised about the brakedistance from 100 km/h is 33meter. Well they say that

[mattCSLnut]

I disagree a little Matt, it's the cooling of the whole system that's not up to much. Stopping power is ok, but heat just ruins them on track.
And I agree ;) additional cooling (mainly @ the front) would be a welcomed addition on the M3/CSL but as we all know the OEM pads shit themselves even on a public road after repeated use.
By upgrading to AP Racing, BREMBO, etc we are still left with cooling issues, are we not ?

[shimmy]

And I agree ;) additional cooling (mainly @ the front) would be a welcomed addition on the M3/CSL but as we all know the OEM pads shit themselves even on a public road after repeated use.
By upgrading to AP Racing, BREMBO, etc we are still left with cooling issues, are we not ?

No, my APs have never had any cooling problems, by that I mean the discs and callioers do not get so hot that when driving the retained heat boils the fluid or melts the pads. With the best fluid in standard brakes, you can still cook it quite easy.

[Levente]

I dont want to go to the Ring often, so mainly i want to use the car for open road and perhaps mountain roads. BMW Performance brakes are good then for this? Anyone know the price for fat new performance brakesystem?

[mattCSLnut]

not only the pads, but only one piston brakes? what were they thinking? im suprised about the brakedistance from 100 km/h is 33meter. Well they say that

Sure, the single piston callipers are an utter embarrassment :clown: on our cars but the weakest point IMHO are the crap OEM pads :banghead: and as Shimmy mentioned brake cooling issues, that further enhance the crapness of it all.

[shimmy]

Sure, the single piston callipers are an utter embarrassment :clown: on our cars but the weakest point IMHO are the crap OEM pads :banghead: and as Shimmy mentioned brake cooling issues, that further enhance the crapness of it all.

I had mine without APs for about 3 months so mostly forgotten but I think that with good fluid and decent pads it would be very hard to cook the brakes on the road.

[Levente]

I dont want to go to the Ring often, so mainly i want to use the car for open road and perhaps mountain roads. BMW Performance brakes are good then for this? Anyone know the price for fat new performance brakesystem?

[mattCSLnut]

I dont want to go to the Ring often, so mainly i want to use the car for open road and perhaps mountain roads. BMW Performance brakes are good then for this? Anyone know the price for fat new performance brakesystem?

I've driven numerous laps @ the Ring on OEM brake set up with upgraded pads,brake lines & fluid like I mentioned before and it was OK... not perfect by any means but just about OK as there aren't too many places where you really need to brake that hard @ the Ring :whistle: however by upgrading to my BREMBO set up it then meant I could brake that much later (at the few places where U really do need to brake) with much greater feel & finesse and without the fear of OEM set ups inherited fade and " will they? won't they? " attitude :bigcry: Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending CSLs OEM brake set up at all, it's inadequate for the application :clown: I'm just suggesting that it can be OK with slight upgrades to pads, lines & brake fluid.
The main deal breaker is when U start doing UK Track Days (which I guess U won't be doing) that really shows just how awful the OEM brake set up is on the CSL so for that reason alone, a decent BBK set up is a must.

[shane@mbtech]

I ran my standard brakes at Anglesey with decent fluid, the standard suspension on track showed its weakness before the brakes for me.

I did get the brakes to start fading after a good few laps, but it was manageable.

Standard discs, hoses, carbotech pads and decent fluids should make a huge improvement over stock.

The above will be more than enough for road and ring.

[mattCSLnut]

I had mine without APs for about 3 months so mostly forgotten but I think that with good fluid and decent pads it would be very hard to cook the brakes on the road.

D'oh :banghead: that's what I've been saying all along Shim ;) I too run the midlly improved OEM set up with PF pads, ATF SBR fluid & SS lines for the first few months prior to my BREMBO BBK :smokin: and not had any problems on the road.

[mattCSLnut]

I ran my standard brakes at Anglesey with decent fluid, the standard suspension on track showed its weakness before the brakes for me.

I did get the brakes to start fading after a good few laps, but it was manageable.

Standard discs, hoses, carbotech pads and decent fluids should make a huge improvement over stock.

The above will be more than enough for road and ring.

Tis true :bigcry: Finally a voice of clarity :beer:

[shimmy]

D'oh :banghead: that's what I've been saying all along Shim ;) I too run the midlly improved OEM set up with PF pads, ATF SBR fluid & SS lines for the first few months prior to my BREMBO BBK :smokin: and not had any problems on the road.

No, you said the weak soot was the pads in your first post, but IMHO it's the cooling, not just pads. You did correct yourself above however ;)

[shimmy]

Tis true :bigcry: Finally a voice of clarity :beer:

I can never understand a word he says (he has to speak slowly to me) :thumbs:

[mattCSLnut]

No, you said the weak soot was the pads in your first post, but IMHO it's the cooling, not just pads. You did correct yourself above however ;)
Why is it then that neither U or I had the cooling issues when running the upgraded after market pads & better brake fluid in the OEM single piston callipers ? :whistle:
Are U suggesting that just better brake fluid (which can cope with higher temps) will be OK with CSL OEM "crap" pads ?
BTW I said " It's mainly the CSL OEM pads that are crap " ;)

[Levente]

im just eager to replace the whole brakesystem, cant acccept these default brakes. im fanatic you guys should know it by now XDDD :hahaha:

[mattCSLnut]

im fanatic you guys should know it by now XDDD :hahaha:
You don't say ?!?! ;) :hahaha: :thumbs:
If you have very deep pockets :whistle: then AP Racing BBK is the only way :supz: covering every imaginable braking scenario for you.

[Levente]

You don't say ?!?! ;) :hahaha: :thumbs:
If you have very deep pockets :whistle: then AP Racing BBK is the only way :supz: covering every imaginable braking scenario for you.

:smt055 where can i buy those in Germany? HOw much?

[mattCSLnut]

:smt055 where can i buy those in Germany?
I've no idea mate ;) maybe invest some quality time with GOOGLE.de :thumbs:

[Levente]

I've no idea mate ;) maybe invest some quality time with GOOGLE.de :thumbs:

yes but Matt is my CSL Prophet :D ok anyway thanks for the help :supz: :beer:

[Tech@PFC]

im just eager to replace the whole brakesystem, cant acccept these default brakes. im fanatic you guys should know it by now XDDD :hahaha:

If you’re looking for a top quality high performance brake system then please consider the Performance Friction Kits.

Our 355mm dimpled front disc kit (3100.0004) uses Forged Monobloc Calipers providing a very stiff platform for the braking components as opposed to the 2-peice AP products.

They also use 4 pads per calliper providing double the leading edges for extra bite and a much more even pressure distribution, reducing distortion in the disc and restricting pad tampering and drag also improving thermal stability. All this results in a much more consistent pedal feel and longer life for the discs and pads.

Our kits also of course come with PF Molybdenum Alloy 2-Pice Disc assemblies.

The ZR31 Caliper used is a race quality component but comes with rubber boots for low maintenance on road use.

And you can even choose your caliper colour.

This kit is a bit more expensive than the AP but you are getting a lot for your money and you will even be saving on replacement parts in the long run.

A 1:1 scale drawing to check clearence can be found here - http://freepdfhosting.com/b9463cb3a8.pdf

Calipers and discs look like this-
http://img404.imageshack.us/img404/1907/bigbrakekitsmall.jpg


Get in touch if you would like any more information,
Charlie
cstaveley@performancefriction.com
+44 (0) 1295 221 023

[M5 Powered]

They look thought through and they kind of sit between the AP's and more expensive CSL Cup / Alcons. Would be useful to include the price and what discount CSL owners get :whistle:

My only critque would be the amount of support for that type of quad pad configuration.


Kindest,

Jonathan