Stay KW or go Intrax / Moton...

[bryce]

:banghead:

About a year back I asked a similar question to what Im going to now...

My car is currently on KW v3. I've played round with settings but feel I cant quite get what Im looking for:


I want a standard feel, I don't care for anything more as I wont be tracking.
I love the stance of the lower car.


I find when I tighten up to get standard handling, its too rough but when I loosen off to get std feel its too boaty (excuse tech-jargon)

Ive spent the past few evenings studying various posts but its difficult to get a concise answer. I find Thorneys posts useful as hes had vast experience with different kinds.

Based on my wants, what should I do?

[shane@mbtech]

:banghead:

About a year back I asked a similar question to what Im going to now...

My car is currently on KW v3. I've played round with settings but feel I cant quite get what Im looking for:


I want a standard feel, I don't care for anything more as I wont be tracking.
I love the stance of the lower car.

I find when I tighten up to get standard handling, its too rough but when I loosen off to get std feel its too boaty (excuse tech-jargon)

Ive spent the past few evenings studying various posts but its difficult to get a concise answer. I find Thorneys posts useful as hes had vast experience with different kinds.

Based on my wants, what should I do?

Try standard with slightly lower intrax springs?

[bryce]

Try standard with slightly lower intrax springs?

I thought that was a huge no-no ?

[shane@mbtech]

I thought that was a huge no-no ?

Very very cheap to try and see. They won't make your shocks explode or spontaneously combust;)

[toplad]

Have you thought about the bilstein b6 kit, its an inverted mono tube design, probably good for road use, its non adjustable. Would guess it will last much longer than almost everything else on the market. If you went with intrax springs, it would be lower too
More info here

http://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/showthread.php?t=38748&highlight=bilstein

[titan]

When I did my research (aka pub chat!) I did hear from a number of people that the KWs were a bit harsh. I opted for the intrax units myself and am more than happy.

Sadly whilst I've had lots of different suspension setups over the years they've all been on different cars, different spring rates etc so difficult to make an assessment (not to mention you need a decent driver!!) but what I can tell you is that intrax, ohlins and exe-tc all make kit which seems a little more tailored to the guy taking a road car to track.

Find someone with intrax and go for a spin I reckon. I'm in essex if you're close....

[shimmy]

My recommendation would be to buy the best you can and research best spring rates for best ride for road or track depending on what is your key requirement.

I'd say Moton are probably the best for M3 but complicated just like 4 way Intrax, KW Clubsport very good quality but suffered due to difficult adjustment tools and process, and maybe not quite the best range of damper adjustment between road and track making road use a bit harsher than optimum.

Intrax 2 way are a very god unit road and track, springs 100 front and 50 rear or 150/75 for more track biased. Don't buy aluminium damper bodies as they corrode on road use but steel or s/s excellent alternatives. They are track units so you may need service every two years to keep them workin to the best but all a/m units really don't have the longevity of OEM units.

Nitron are great dampers, they had trouble getting M3 dampers right but Oneils seem to be ok, even though he can't keep up on kerbs :smokin:

Avoid HST and D2 as generally they are not serviceable nd cheap parts.

As for Bilstien, ask Matt but they seem ok for Sunday afternoon leisurely drives :gayfight:

[bryce]

Thanks toplad, but if I wanted standard look I think I'd be happy enough with STD susp. From what I can remember anyway it was more capable than me.

Thank you Titan, seems to be the general consensus so far.

Thanks shimmy. By complicated on motion what exactly do you mean? And as both you and lawsy have mentioned spring rates, does anyone know the v3 rates so I can get an idea of scale in mind.

Thanks for all the advice so far. Hopefully matt can chime in with his experience.

Any intrax users in Scotland / north area too for a joy ride!

[_Nathan_]

My recommendation would be to buy the best you can and research best spring rates for best ride for road or track depending on what is your key requirement.

I'd say Moton are probably the best for M3 but complicated just like 4 way Intrax, KW Clubsport very good quality but suffered due to difficult adjustment tools and process, and maybe not quite the best range of damper adjustment between road and track making road use a bit harsher than optimum.

Intrax 2 way are a very god unit road and track, springs 100 front and 50 rear or 150/75 for more track biased. Don't buy aluminium damper bodies as they corrode on road use but steel or s/s excellent alternatives. They are track units so you may need service every two years to keep them workin to the best but all a/m units really don't have the longevity of OEM units.

Nitron are great dampers, they had trouble getting M3 dampers right but Oneils seem to be ok, even though he can't keep up on kerbs :smokin:

Avoid HST and D2 as generally they are not serviceable nd cheap parts.

As for Bilstien, ask Matt but they seem ok for Sunday afternoon leisurely drives :gayfight:

For a car that is never going to see the track then what lawsy said makes sense, however if going Intrax you can comfortably run less than 100/50, 90/45 or even 80/40. 150/75 you quote can't be right for a road going track car, the ride would be horrible, I drove my car to Spa with softer spring rates than that and wouldn't recommend it, was horrible.

[shimmy]

For a car that is never going to see the track then what lawsy said makes sense, however if going Intrax you can comfortably run less than 100/50, 90/45 or even 80/40. 150/75 you quote can't be right for a road going track car, the ride would be horrible, I drove my car to Spa with softer spring rates than that and wouldn't recommend it, was horrible.

Poofta...........

I think 150/75 might be a tad harsh bu I think Alex has them fitted!

[Curly]

For a car that is never going to see the track then what lawsy said makes sense, however if going Intrax you can comfortably run less than 100/50, 90/45 or even 80/40. 150/75 you quote can't be right for a road going track car, the ride would be horrible, I drove my car to Spa with softer spring rates than that and wouldn't recommend it, was horrible.

I think shim means 140/70 I had on my car,which Alex is running now,surprisingly it didnt feel that much harsher than the 100/50's and ran the car on the road,the KW clubsport felt harsher on the road.

[shimmy]

I think shim means 140/70 I had on my car,which Alex is running now,surprisingly it didnt feel that much harsher than the 100/50's and ran the car on the road,the KW clubsport felt harsher on the road.

That's the ones.......:smokin:

[mattCSLnut]

As for Bilstien, ask Matt but they seem ok for Sunday afternoon leisurely drives :gayfight:

The very ones you're always keen to organise :gayfight: :birdman: ;)
FYI... there's absolutely nothing wrong with PSS10 for road or track :smokin: it's like having brand spanking NEW OEM CSL suspension (already a great bit of kit :smokin: ) with the advantage of ride height and rebound adjust-ability :supz:

[_Nathan_]

I think shim means 140/70 I had on my car,which Alex is running now,surprisingly it didnt feel that much harsher than the 100/50's and ran the car on the road,the KW clubsport felt harsher on the road.

First post says that it won't be going near a track though, on the road only I'd find that tiresome, fair enough if it is something you put up with on the road with the knowledge that it is better on track. I personally think that is too stiff for road use though especially on a bumpy road in the pissing rain, unless he is going to disconnect his ARBs when nipping out for a pint of milk in the rain :thumbs:

[_Nathan_]

The very ones you're always keen to organise :gayfight: :birdman: ;)
FYI... there's absolutely nothing wrong with PSS10 for road or track :smokin: it's like having brand spanking NEW OEM CSL suspension (already a great bit of kit :smokin: ) with the advantage of ride height and rebound adjust-ability :supz:

To be honest that sounds pretty much perfect given the requirements in the first post.

[shane@mbtech]

Shimmy, I am going down the Nitron route-

We will see.... A, how they compare with your car at Oulton (we can drive eachothers cars to compare for a better comparison)
....................B, how they compare to the KW clubsport that I ran on my previous CSL.

I never had an issue with the KW, but I want to try something different.
Incidently the Nitron I had on my previous evo X seemed better than the KW clubsport on it now.

I was going to go the intrax route, but decided to try the Nitrons.

You pays your money- take your chance.

What are you running on your car? I know intrax, but what kit/spring rates etc.

[mattCSLnut]

To be honest that sounds pretty much perfect given the requirements in the first post.
:thumbs: So, it seems we've come full circle, a RARE moment on this forum ;) I thank you :beer:

[shimmy]

Shimmy, I am going down the Nitron route-

We will see.... A, how they compare with your car at Oulton (we can drive eachothers cars to compare for a better comparison)
....................B, how they compare to the KW clubsport that I ran on my previous CSL.

I never had an issue with the KW, but I want to try something different.
Incidently the Nitron I had on my previous evo X seemed better than the KW clubsport on it now.

I was going to go the intrax route, but decided to try the Nitrons.

You pays your money- take your chance.

What are you running on your car? I know intrax, but what kit/spring rates etc.

Mine are two way with steel damper bodies, I think 100F/50R prog springs. They do cope with kerbs very well.

[toplad]

Thanks toplad, but if I wanted standard look I think I'd be happy enough with STD susp. From what I can remember anyway it was more capable than me.

,
Hi again, the bilstein dampers can be teamed with different springs, paired with intrax springs, your car will be lower than a crack heads morals, paired with oem springs the car will have same ride height, you have choice
As you mentioned in your first post, your car isn't going to be tracked so spending a fortunate on some top notch suspension is pointless.
I've been looking at different suspensions options lately and would probably prefer brand new oem with slightly stiffer front springs to lessen dive under braking and give more direct feeling/connection. Can this be done anyone?
It might not be the fastest around the track, but I only do a handful of TD's a year and I find oem pretty good 99% of the time.

[Jurn]

The very ones you're always keen to organise :gayfight: :birdman: ;)
FYI... there's absolutely nothing wrong with PSS10 for road or track :smokin: it's like having brand spanking NEW OEM CSL suspension (already a great bit of kit :smokin: ) with the advantage of ride height and rebound adjust-ability :supz:

:smokin:



:supz:

[bryce]

,
Hi again, the bilstein dampers can be teamed with different springs, paired with intrax springs, your car will be lower than a crack heads morals, paired with oem springs the car will have same ride height, you have choice
As you mentioned in your first post, your car isn't going to be tracked so spending a fortunate on some top notch suspension is pointless.
I've been looking at different suspensions options lately and would probably prefer brand new oem with slightly stiffer front springs to lessen dive under braking and give more direct feeling/connection. Can this be done anyone?
It might not be the fastest around the track, but I only do a handful of TD's a year and I find oem pretty good 99% of the time.

Where can I get intrax springs? and an idea on price?

Also, whats the spring rates on OEM? KW doesnt seem to have one as its a progressive spring.

[toplad]

Where can I get intrax springs? and an idea on price?

See the link for springs
http://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/showthread.php?t=30118

Also, whats the spring rates on OEM? KW doesnt seem to have one as its a progressive spring.

I have no idea what spring rate OEM is, perhaps one the guru's might know???

[shimmy]

I have no idea what spring rate OEM is, perhaps one the guru's might know???

I've asked before but never had a reply! Going by my Intrax I'd have a shot at 90/45

[_Nathan_]

I've asked before but never had a reply! Going by my Intrax I'd have a shot at 90/45

Nah, remember that the rear springs are in a different place on OEM so different leverage.

[shane@mbtech]

75 front 170 rear I reckon.

[shimmy]

Nah, remember that the rear springs are in a different place on OEM so different leverage.


Good point, rears will be firmer than I said :whistle: