Ooops DN 19/07/2011

[rstoughy]

Drifting and the ring dont really go :bigcry: :bigcry: :bigcry:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Nh90hhXq7k

[mattCSLnut]

Drifting and the ring dontg really go :bigcry: :bigcry: :bigcry:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Nh90hhXq7k
Well Kallenhard is a really daft place to try drifting @ the Ring :banghead: Tight down hill right hander with a late apex and ARMCO inches away on both sides :clown:
Looks like a UK car Paul... dare I ask if it's anyone from here ? :whistle:

[rstoughy]

Matt,
Was a CSL that Nick Johnson had across for the day. No front plate and a novice "X" on the rear screen from SPA the previous day.

[mattCSLnut]

Matt,
Was a CSL that Nick Johnson had across for the day. No front plate and a novice "X" on the windscreen from SPA the previous day.

Double D'oh :banghead: say no more ;) :hahaha: I feel an opportunity has developed to finally sell my spare CSL bumper :whistle:

http://www.cslregister.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6658

[rstoughy]

hahaha straight in for the sale :hahaha: :hahaha: love it.

Could have been done with you and your "machine" over there, 1st hot lap and I had a bit of a christmas tree going on with the dash (wheels were tight before anyone asks :whistle: )
Brake warning light was red, ABS light was yellow, Runflat light was yellow, SMG light was yellow and the DSC was lit up (was running with it off anyway) but it wouldnt switch back to "normal"

Guys are suspecting a wheel speed sensor.

All good each time i went out and after a few corners PING and it lit up again.
Has not done it on the road though, even the spirited run through Germany :whistle:

[azrael]

Can see the reg in the video

Shame :(

[glendog74]

Ooops! Nearly as good as my 'drifting' attempts...!

[merell900]

he made it good:thumbs:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MOrlSSEe8CQ

[DuncanR]

Jonnywb and I came by in mine just after this happened.
Bought Nick a beer at PK later to try and ease the pain.
To be fair he put his hand up to it .. he admitted he fucked up !
Hope you get it sorted Nick !

[shane@mbtech]

Jonnywb and I came by in mine just after this happened.
Bought Nick a beer at PK later to try and ease the pain.
To be fair he put his hand up to it .. he admitted he fucked up !
Hope you get it sorted Nick !

Live by the sword, die by the sword.

His driving was writing cheques, that his ability could not cash.:hahaha:

To be fair, I have done it on occasion, but I know that acting a cunt can result in me looking a cunt. So I try to choose my places wisely. :whistle:

[toplad]

His driving was writing cheques, that his ability could not cash.:hahaha:



His ego was writing cheques his technique could not cash

[shimmy]

Ouch

Never Mind, he's got loads more! :smokin:

[Yanto]

Why would you drift at the ring (unless the speed you're driving at neccesitated it - which looking at those speeds, it clearly didn't). Scrubs speeds which defeats the object right ? Bellend...

Merc CL at Brands was doing the same thing last year (MattCSL, you'll recall the eve session with Tino and Mole) the guy was drifting on the Indy circuit then his tyre blew on the pit straight and he nearly wrote the fecker off in the pit wall. Prick.

Surely this is airfield action, not for track ???

On the plus side, good to see all four MAGNESIUM wheels seem to survive intact :whistle::hahaha:

[glendog74]

On the plus side, good to see all four MAGNESIUM wheels seem to survive intact :whistle::hahaha:

That's because he has the standard bling 19" wheels fitted - not CSL jobbies ;)

[glendog74]

Why would you drift at the ring (unless the speed you're driving at neccesitated it - which looking at those speeds, it clearly didn't). Scrubs speeds which defeats the object right ? Bellend...

Merc CL at Brands was doing the same thing last year (MattCSL, you'll recall the eve session with Tino and Mole) the guy was drifting on the Indy circuit then his tyre blew on the pit straight and he nearly wrote the fecker off in the pit wall. Prick.

Surely this is airfield action, not for track ???

On the plus side, good to see all four MAGNESIUM wheels seem to survive intact :whistle::hahaha:

I must say you seem rather irritable and somewhat angry tonight mate... Those OMP trainers not sold yet? :hahaha:

[Bounce]

I must say you seem rather irritable and somewhat angry tonight mate... Those OMP trainers not sold yet? :hahaha::hahaha::hahaha:

[Yanto]

I must say you seem rather irritable and somewhat angry tonight mate... Those OMP trainers not sold yet? :hahaha:

no - kicking myself at the missed opportunity of sneaking them into your car at Bracknell meet ......

Just getting old and grumpy like Shimmy and Bounce mate :hahaha::hahaha:

[Porter]

Whoops.

So can I assume that cars bought from Nick Johnson are likely to have been drifted round the 'Ring first? That's not exactly ideal. I know these cars have (or at least should have) all been driven hard, but it's nice to at least maintian the illusion that the car you're buying has been well looked after, especially by the dealer.

Hopefully I've got the wrong end of the stick...

[glendog74]

no - kicking myself at the missed opportunity of sneaking them into your car at Bracknell meet ......

Just getting old and grumpy like Shimmy and Bounce mate :hahaha::hahaha:

:hahaha: :hahaha: :hahaha:

[glendog74]

Whoops.

So can I assume that cars bought from Nick Johnson are likely to have been drifted round the 'Ring first? That's not exactly ideal. I know these cars have (or at least should have) all been driven hard, but it's nice to at least maintian the illusion that the car you're buying has been well looked after, especially by the dealer.

Hopefully I've got the wrong end of the stick...

Hmmm - you haven't got the wrong end of the stick as he has been known to take them around the Ring in the past too. I remember him there in one of the slower black ones last year. :bigcry:

[Porter]

... slower black ones last year...


:hahaha:

Can you go fast enough in a black one to spin?

[rstoughy]

TBH its not the taking the car to the ring or battering it round the track, thats what they were designed for and it's his car at that precise moment and time to do what he likes with it.
For me its the £3k+ I've spent on my once a year trip over there getting wasted because of avoidable incidents like this. Circuit closed early on both days due to excessive barrier damage. Not an issue if it's someone who is trying and over cooks it a little (we all do) however if it's because of something like this it pi$$es you off a little. Not enough to ruin the trip though :smokin: :beer: Its always good to see some tyre smoking fun but just not on these type of events IMO.

Im sure Nick will have the car back up to scratch ASAP as it didnt look too bad in the car park :smokin:

[Yanto]

TBH its not the taking the car to the ring or battering it round the track, thats what they were designed for and it's his car at that precise moment and time to do what he likes with it.
For me its the £3k+ I've spent on my once a year trip over there getting wasted because of avoidable incidents like this. Circuit closed early on both days due to excessive barrier damage. Not an issue if it's someone who is trying and over cooks it a little (we all do) however if it's because of something like this it pi$$es you off a little. Not enough to ruin the trip though :smokin: :beer: Its always good to see some tyre smoking fun but just not on these type of events IMO.

Im sure Nick will have the car back up to scratch ASAP as it didnt look too bad in the car park :smokin:

<grumpy mode> exactly Paul, well said mate.....time and place for these selfish actions.....</grumpy mode> :thumbs:

[Johnnywb]

I spoke to someone who'd been on the RMA day at Spa with him the day before and apparently Nick had been drifting there too.

I emailed him over a couple of links on the Tuesday evening after talking to him in the PK, as the car needed some wishbones and other bits. GOt a reply back at the end of this week saying thanks but saying that the car's probably going to be broken.

It was a 100k+ one. A shame, but helps values i guess!

[shimmy]

What was the plate?

[mattCSLnut]

I spoke to someone who'd been on the RMA day at Spa with him the day before and apparently Nick had been drifting there too.

I emailed him over a couple of links on the Tuesday evening after talking to him in the PK, as the car needed some wishbones and other bits. GOt a reply back at the end of this week saying thanks but saying that the car's probably going to be broken.

It was a 100k+ one. A shame, but helps values i guess!

... just as soon as the insurance pays out handsomely :whistle: IMHO some people don't deserve to own a CSL :banghead:
especially more than one.
A real shame to loose another Cecil through avoidable pilot error. :bigcry:


SORRY... Old grumpy man rant over and I blame Ian for it ;) :hahaha:

[mattCSLnut]

Hmmm - you haven't got the wrong end of the stick as he has been known to take them around the Ring in the past too. I remember him there in one of the slower black ones last year. :bigcry:

Yep... I remember he didn't know his way round the RING even then :whistle: ;) :hahaha:

[O'Neill]

I must say you seem rather irritable and somewhat angry tonight mate... Those OMP trainers not sold yet? :hahaha:


Made me spit coffee at the screen:hahaha::hahaha:

[DuncanR]

:hahaha:

Can you go fast enough in a black one to spin? yes ! :birdman:

[TANKSLAPPER]

What was the plate?


Whats the interest ? :whistle:

T$

[Pip1968]

Whats the interest ? :whistle:
T$

I made out what looked like CV53 EDV but could not replicate the image again after trying the second time round. You can only press Play/Pause a number of times before it breaks you. There seems to be one frame that is quite clear just after the shunt.

Pip

[sailorbaz]

Think if might be CX53 EUV... :whistle:

[Pip1968]

And there was me all pleased with myself that I had managed to capture the best image from that film.

My application for CSI has been duly binned.

Pip

[shimmy]

Think if might be CX53 EUV... :whistle:

It joins a prestigious and well subscribed group of CSLs in the 'binned at the Ring' filter.....

[mattCSLnut]

It joins a prestigious and well subscribed group of CSLs in the 'binned at the Ring' filter.....

So how many in total are there on your prestigious "binned at the Ring" list Shim ? :whistle:

[shimmy]

So how many in total are there on your prestigious "binned at the Ring" list Shim ? :whistle:


probabaly about 30 more than it shows in TRUTH

[northernjim]

So how many in total are there on your prestigious "binned at the Ring" list Shim ? :whistle:

422 total uk allocation?

what was that thread saying? 279 left now


Ie 143 binned or exported.....


I wonder what the percentage of those binned at the ring is....

50%:smokin:

[shimmy]

im willing to bet that at the Ring 40-50 CSLs have seen the barrier whether written off or not i dont know.

Shimmy

422 total uk allocation?

what was that thread saying? 279 left now


Ie 143 binned or exported.....


I wonder what the percentage of those binned at the ring is....

50%:smokin:

[glendog74]

I love Ring :smt055

[TANKSLAPPER]

It joins a prestigious and well subscribed group of CSLs in the 'binned at the Ring' filter.....

I wonder where this is going !:bigcry::bigcry::bigcry:

T$

[Yanto]

I love Ring :smt055


I'm more worried about where this is going T$ :bigcry::bigcry::bigcry:

[northernjim]

I'm more worried about where this is going T$ :bigcry::bigcry::bigcry:

:hahaha::hahaha: you're not wrong tho:bigcry:

[DuncanR]

Think if might be CX53 EUV... :whistle:its CX53 LUV ;)

[TANKSLAPPER]

its CX53 LUV ;)


Are you sure Duncan ! I reckon it's CU53 NTO LOL

Oh fook it, that's another three CSL's on shimmys' binned at the Ring filter..... :hahaha:

T$

[karbonkid]

I made out what looked like CV53 EDV but could not replicate the image again after trying the second time round. You can only press Play/Pause a number of times before it breaks you. There seems to be one frame that is quite clear just after the shunt.

Pip

must be same chap here based on your reg assumption?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3MoCVBbaD0g

[Pip1968]

My mistakenly read registration plate has been corrected if you look back.

Or was I right...... ??


Pip

[Porter]

Why buy a CSL if that's how you drive on TDs? Why not buy something like a Skyline drift car?

[mattCSLnut]

Why buy a CSL if that's how you drive on TDs?
:clown: We all know what happened to it the day after @ the Ring :bigcry: :whistle:

Why not buy something like a Skyline drift car?


.. or Nissan 200SX a.k.a. S15 Silvia in Japan :smokin:

[Porter]

Looks like an expensive hobby!

[mattCSLnut]

Looks like an expensive hobby!
Drifting ? or smashing CSLs @ the Ring ? :whistle: ;)

[Porter]

:hahaha:

[Loaded]

Drifting and the ring dont really go :bigcry: :bigcry: :bigcry:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Nh90hhXq7k


Holy fuck........!

[RonBurgandy]

102k on the clock and wants 13500 big ones for it and was only doing 15mph albeit backwards heading for something tougher than a car, its popped up for sale on pistonheads with a bit of an appology tagged along with it, nice pics tho

[sailorbaz]

Good find, bloody shame though. Someone will get a good buy no doubt though. Hope she stays on the road but at 100K I can see it being a track whore soon, :whistle:

[alclark]

Always bad to see people crashing. Hope no one was hurt! :)

But there's nothing complicated or dangerous about drifting at the 'Ring any more than any other track. Looks like poor Nick (?) just had a moment of error and made the classic mistake of braking during a spin - rear wheels have already lost traction and brakes just cause the car to rotate faster, and downhill in this instance.

In that instance, you would want to just shut down the throttle and let the back end grip first before braking.
[/suckingeggs]

[shane@mbtech]

Always bad to see people crashing. Hope no one was hurt! :)

But there's nothing complicated or dangerous about drifting at the 'Ring any more than any other track. Looks like poor Nick (?) just had a moment of error and made the classic mistake of braking during a spin - rear wheels have already lost traction and brakes just cause the car to rotate faster, and downhill in this instance.

In that instance, you would want to just shut down the throttle and let the back end grip first before braking.
[/suckingeggs]

2ft of grass then Armco is more risky than 50ft of kitty litter.

[shimmy]

2ft of grass then Armco is more risky than 50ft of kitty litter.

Amen to that brother....:smokin:

[alclark]

Depends how you look at it. Not that many tracks actually have 'that' much run off - Bedford, Silverstone, Cadwell, Brands Hatch etc all have 'drifty' sections with armco or walls literally next to the track edge too which regularly collect cars. You drift in a context of a safety margin, can you escape for example in the situation of a spin, or a car parked across the track - if there is oil can you collect the car before a wall etc.

I don't consider the 'Ring to be any more dangerous, but it is a hell of a lot more expensive if the worst does happen. I've done 720 odd laps there and touch wood havn't crashed once, and I slide the car more or less constantly as I'm a big child. :D

Anyway, glad to see no one was hurt, after all it's only a car! Hope the sale of the car is quick, good value for someone! :smokin:

[shimmy]

The chances of crashing at the Ring have got to be substantially higher than any other track (that I know).


I know of dozens of people that have crashed at the Ring bu I struggle to name anybody I know and onl a couple of people I don't who have crashed on a circuit.

But if it's suits your risk profile to tell that to yourself en fair play, if it gets you out there drifting:whistle:

[alclark]

On percentages, the 'Ring has far more 'completed safely' laps than most circuits. You can probably imagine 60-120 cars on a regular circuit trackday, you might see anywhere between 1 to 3 crashes if any, where as many as perhaps 2500 cars might lap the Nordschleife on a busy weekend day, and 10-15 prang, maybe 2 or 3 significant closures.

I'd say, and most regulars would agree, that was more the fact that the 'Ring is simply an inherently difficult track. It's 4-6 times as long as most circuits and it takes so long to really learn, coupled with the fact that most of it's blind, often filled with slow moving traffic, changes every year, and a place where a lot of people go to drive often far faster than their real ability or knowledge allows. And as it's so far away, most have to re-learn it to a certain extent every trip if they only go once or twice a year.

The most common crash on the 'Ring is generally classed as 'Single Vehicle, Knowledge Bank Empty'. In this case, perhaps judgement temporarily gave way to awesomeness from the Metgesfeld2 drift, and went in to Kallenhard and turned too late. You need to be initiating a drift well before the racing lines turn in point if you want to drift there.

As long as you keep that safety zone in mind, and to a certain amount stay lucky with oil spills and mechanical failures, then it's as safe as anywhere else, and much more amazing and rewarding, I firmly believe. :supz:

[azrael]

The main issue with the ring is blind corners or crests

The other issue is tourist days :)

[_Nathan_]

"On percentages, the 'Ring has far more 'completed safely' laps than most circuits"

Of all the made up statistics I've seen that has to be one of the best :thumbs:

[alclark]

"On percentages, the 'Ring has far more 'completed safely' laps than most circuits"

Of all the made up statistics I've seen that has to be one of the best :thumbs:

Why? To quote a friend who is a full time marshal at the track:


Do a quick calculation.

Try and work out how many laps are done per year. Take a guesstimate at the 'tourist' traffic versus the race and professionals. In my definition tourist can be applied to inexperienced or hobby league track day participants as well as the customers of training courses. Professional would be instructors, industry pool and all bar tthe experience day passengers within the race program.

Very rough guess.

400,000 tf laps.

250,000 track day laps.

100,000 race laps

How many people per vehicle on average?

Bikes 1.1
Cars 1.75
Other vehicles 15 (motor homes, vans, buses people carriers)

Now add in the circuit limits. 220 240 racing, and what 350 - 400 in TF if its busy?

Then add in the circuit length.

How many person/miles were actually completed?

Then apply the same formula to your local track. We would almost certainly be looking at accidents stats that make the ring look a lot better than the impression generally given.


It's really not that crazy when you sit down and look at it properly. I've been going for just under a decade now, several trips a year, and I've had far less trouble than on UK tracks. The major difference is of course, a UK track you get warning. It is often too late at the 'Ring if fresh coolant or oil has been spilt.

I won't press or argue the point though any further, I don't want to sound like I'm on some ridiculous crusade or monologue! Sorry! :D

[RonBurgandy]

We were there early july and not being a track hero i tend to take it easy as my talent soon runs out and confidence kinda takes over. From a novice point of view i take it easy but watching others and listening to the stories i can see why people think their balls are bigger than they actually are cos who wouldn like to say they are 'masters of the ring'. I crused around in my friends Kia Carens, awsome, on the back of a Fireblade, scary and in the family A6 with little legs fast asleep in the back, good times.

[Streetwise Hercules]

*off topic*

Ron - It's BurgUndy.

Apologies.
As you were.

[RonBurgandy]

Thats my actuall name think there was some film with some chap called the same, mmm never really noticed before how do i change it

[shimmy]

Thats my actuall name think there was some film with some chap called the same, mmm never really noticed before how do i change it

I think you go to our local authority office and change by Deed Poll:smokin:

[Bounce]

Thats my actuall name think there was some film with some chap called the same, mmm never really noticed before how do i change it:hahaha::hahaha::hahaha:

[shane@mbtech]

Why? To quote a friend who is a full time marshal at the track:



It's really not that crazy when you sit down and look at it properly. I've been going for just under a decade now, several trips a year, and I've had far less trouble than on UK tracks. The major difference is of course, a UK track you get warning. It is often too late at the 'Ring if fresh coolant or oil has been spilt.

I won't press or argue the point though any further, I don't want to sound like I'm on some ridiculous crusade or monologue! Sorry! :D


I think you are struggling to grasp common sense a little here.

Where nick crashed there was 2 ft of grass then armco.
On most uk tracks there is quite a bit more run off and then some.

There may be parts of the ring which does have more run off, but the fact is Nick crashed at the point we are discussing.

The danger of losing a drift remains the same on either, but the probability of hitting the armco after losing said drift is far higher when there is 2 ft of grass rather than 25 ft of grass.

Its quite simple really.

Lesson here endeth. :beer:

[Streetwise Hercules]

Thats my actuall name think there was some film with some chap called the same, mmm never really noticed before how do i change it

Lying swine!

[_Nathan_]

Statistics created from "very rough guess" figures by a person with a vested interest in the good name of the 'ring are always going to be skewed :thumbs:

No need for all the over a year thing, look at number of laps completed during a trackday and I cannot see how as a percentage the ring can come off better.

Put it this way, if I go and do a track day at donington I could do say 6 x 40 min stints in a day, allow 1:20 per lap to make it easy to calculate and that is give or take 180 laps in a day. Am I more likely to crash on that one trackday or during 180 laps of the ring? IME the latter...

[shimmy]

I'd be willing to bet you'd be more likely to crash in 18 laps on the Ring than 180 at Donny....



You gotta start your ar first though:smokin:

[_Nathan_]

It took me less than 40 to crash at the 'ring from memory :D

[shimmy]

It took me less than 40 to crash at the 'ring from memory :D

Cheers Nathan, my statistics and gut feel hold firm :thumbs:

And how many times you crash on track in Uk?



I think you could argue that spinning at the Ring is much less likely but chances of hitting something when you do is vastly higher

[_Nathan_]

My missus span my car on the exit of Wehrseifen, bloody thing wouldn't start and she was sat there with cars coming round the corner and having to avoid her! I've Crashed there once (Eiskurve), and once came back to the carpark with a grill full of dandelions having managed to take a grass short cut at spiegel kurve :thumbs:

Proper crash on a uk track - once, 10 or so years ago in a clio cup race car at Brands during a race, managed to rip rear bumper off CSL in gravel trap at Donny too on a test day but not counting that as a proper crash.