Rear strut brace - options...

[funtime]

As above, I need a rear strut brace and can't really find many available, it doesn't even have to be M3 specific as they are all the same dimensions across the rear turrets...

Does anyone run one? if so, whats the quality of it like and where did you get it etc?

I was round Shimmy's earlier today and he had a nice Racing Dynamics one but it works out at nearly £200 now with the exchange rates and shipping, which is too much for what it is.

Also don't want to spend silly money and go for the Thorney one @ over £700!!! (although it is AWESOME :supz: )

Thanks, James

[toofastforyou]

ac shnitzer do one, but i think its still £2-300. i bought mine about 7 years ago so it might be more now. also try ca autotech, they might have a cheaper one or a copy of the more expensive ones.

[shane@mbtech]

As above, I need a rear strut brace and can't really find many available, it doesn't even have to be M3 specific as they are all the same dimensions across the rear turrets...

Does anyone run one? if so, whats the quality of it like and where did you get it etc?

I was round Shimmy's earlier today and he had a nice Racing Dynamics one but it works out at nearly £200 now with the exchange rates and shipping, which is too much for what it is.

Also don't want to spend silly money and go for the Thorney one @ over £700!!! (although it is AWESOME :supz: )

Thanks, James

The safety devices one is£300 something

try another safety devices dealer:thumbs:

[funtime]

The safety devices one is£300 something

try another safety devices dealer:thumbs:

Really!?! Please do tell :) PM me if you like :thumbs:

[shane@mbtech]

Really!?! Please do tell :) PM me if you like :thumbs:

I bought that exact one and I sold it brand new for 400

But if you get a nice dealer they will give a bit of discount taking it under 400

[funtime]

I bought that exact one and I sold it brand new for 400

But if you get a nice dealer they will give a bit of discount taking it under 400

Please can you tell me who the 'nice dealer' is :)

So the 300 something in your last post is closer to 400? just to get an Idea :)

PM me please :thumbs:

[s.mac]

The safety devices one is£300 something

try another safety devices dealer:thumbs:

what is this?

[funtime]

what is this?

This one Safety Devices rear strut brace/harness bar (http://www.thorneymotorsport.co.uk/products/product_info.php?products_id=4463&osCsid=nyasfdgn)

Thorney must be laughing all the way to the bank when they sell one of these...

Oh and Lawsy - with a bit of digging I got there, massive thanks :thumbs:

Only thing is, it doesn't say anywhere, but I'm guessing you need to drill the boot floor to mount this? Which would effectively void any BMW claims for a new subframe if it did crack? :eeek:

[shimmy]

Only thing is, it doesn't say anywhere, but I'm guessing you need to drill the boot floor to mount this? Which would effectively void any BMW claims for a new subframe if it did crack? :eeek:


Thats why i didnt use one, even though it owuld be the best choice. Youd have to remove it cleanly for warranty work but you are risking not getting covered.

If you want one i can ask our Safety Devices supplier for our MX5 cages who we have spent a few £000 with recently

at the end of the day FT if you pay £250 for the RD one youd sell it for £200 anyday of the week so its gonna cost you £50 max in real money. If they go up in price in the next two years youll end up making money!

[flow]

This one Safety Devices rear strut brace/harness bar (http://www.thorneymotorsport.co.uk/products/product_info.php?products_id=4463&osCsid=nyasfdgn)

Thorney must be laughing all the way to the bank when they sell one of these...

Oh and Lawsy - with a bit of digging I got there, massive thanks :thumbs:

Only thing is, it doesn't say anywhere, but I'm guessing you need to drill the boot floor to mount this? Which would effectively void any BMW claims for a new subframe if it did crack? :eeek:

I'm also interested in one , drop me a PM where you will be ordering one ;)

[s.mac]

these guys may do something http://www.wiechers-sport.de/

[shimmy]

ill get some prices tomorrow;)

[funtime]

Cheers mate :thumbs:

[shimmy]

Sorry guys my supplier will only do Mazda cage.

Try MSAR who supply Safery Devices and speak to Jen.

[funtime]

Cheers Andy, will do :thumbs:

[AlexGTT]

Try here chaps. ;)

http://www.automac.co.uk/product/B028%20SD-%2F

[funtime]

Already found that, using it as my base price ;)

Automic: £316 including vat...
Thorney: £755 (I would hope that includes vat!!!)

So can anyone enlighten me as to what Thorney do to justify charging £439 more than the list price for these?

And £316 is not a discounted price, that includes overheads and profit for anyone selling the product.

Don't want to say anything out of line here, but this is the second case in a week I've seen where Thorney are charging almost double what other suppliers are. Business is business but there's making a profit and then there's buggering your customers just because they don't know where else to buy it from.

[AlexGTT]

Don't want to say anything out of line here, but this is the second case in a week I've seen where Thorney are charging almost double what other suppliers are. Business is business but there's making a profit and then there's buggering your customers just because they don't know where else to buy it from.

Don't know. Maybe that includes harnesses or something. Ring John and ask.

[shimmy]

Don't know. Maybe that includes harnesses or something. Ring John and ask.


or maybe includes fitting:smokin:

[funtime]

Don't know. Maybe that includes harnesses or something. Ring John and ask.

or maybe includes fitting:smokin:

:hahaha: Sadly not. It even says below, fitting is 2 hours at £65+vat per hour!

And harnesses are listed seperate so one would assume these are also extra ;)

Oh well, they obviously manage to sell them!

[karbonkid]

Wiecher is a very cheap option for great Quality. Some might be stock items but invariably made to order.
Remember prices are in Euros. Give Dominik an email what exactly your after: dominik.greiner@wiechers-sport.de

http://img266.imageshack.us/img266/3302/picture3ko.png (http://img266.imageshack.us/i/picture3ko.png/)
http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/3847/picture2yfn.png (http://img35.imageshack.us/i/picture2yfn.png/)

[Thorney]

Lovely isn't it.

We do all the design work on these, they use our cars for the work and we agree that they are exlcusive to us so we buy 10 of the things at £466 plus VAT each one. Onwer of Safety Devices dies so deal dies with him so SD decide to make their own versions in Poland and sell them direct. Oh well.

We have 5, £300 to anyone who wants them. Call me direct for the deal.

[AlexGTT]

Good offer John. :thumbs:

[funtime]

Lovely isn't it.

We do all the design work on these, they use our cars for the work and we agree that they are exlcusive to us so we buy 10 of the things at £466 plus VAT each one. Onwer of Safety Devices dies so deal dies with him so SD decide to make their own versions in Poland and sell them direct. Oh well.

We have 5, £300 to anyone who wants them. Call me direct for the deal.

Thanks for the post John, I feel bad now as I can see exactly why you were charging what you were for them. Apologies for my previous post.

Great offer though, I will be in touch soon. :thumbs:

Thanks,

James

[Thorney]

Oh dont worry I didnt take it personally and tbh i'm not overly surprised. Tuning/racing market is tough and it seems tough = be crappy to people for some people so I half expected it to some extent. It is very frustrating to do a deal and then it get turned around on you but no point crying about it, take the loss and move on.

[pinkpanther008]

Great offer John, can you tell me whether the floor mounting require additional holes etc?

Cheers PP

[toofastforyou]

Only thing is, it doesn't say anywhere, but I'm guessing you need to drill the boot floor to mount this? Which would effectively void any BMW claims for a new subframe if it did crack? :eeek:

if you buy the ac schnitzer rear brace from bmw and have them fit it, you will not void your warranty.

[AlexGTT]

if you buy the ac schnitzer rear brace from bmw and have them fit it, you will not void your warranty.

Doesn't brace onto the floor though, which is the whole point.

[toofastforyou]

Doesn't brace onto the floor though, which is the whole point.

he wants a rear strut brace that will not void his warranty should he need to claim. ac schnitzer item increases rigidity and is fitted by bmw. good option imo.

dont quite know what you mean when you say it doesnt brace onto the floor though, it braces on top of the two rear suspension domes here
http://www.vividracing.com/catalog/schnitzer-rear-strut-brace-series-incl-9905-pi-2884.html?image=0

is this not the only place you can attach a rear strut brace to?

[shimmy]

he wants a rear strut brace that will not void his warranty should he need to claim. ac schnitzer item increases rigidity and is fitted by bmw. good option imo.

dont quite know what you mean when you say it doesnt brace onto the floor though, it braces on top of the two rear suspension domes here
http://www.vividracing.com/catalog/schnitzer-rear-strut-brace-series-incl-9905-pi-2884.html?image=0

is this not the only place you can attach a rear strut brace to?

I think the SD one also fixes to the boot floor near the diff carryo points, better but more work and a risk when it cone to warranty work on rear subframe (although with this fitted I doubt any cracks will happen)

[_Nathan_]

Exactly, it'll stop the cracks as it triangulates the diff pick up points, also acts as a harness bar.

As for the AC shitzer one, why would you need BMW to fit it - 6 bolts!

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

Rear strut brace will be as much use as
a Hand brake on a canoe if your still
running a spring /shock rear end.

Bracing a damper to another damper and
the chassis does zero.

If your running coilovers but no cage etc
then it may make laetral rear end sway
a little stiffer in the dry, when your about
a wisker away from the rear end limit.

As regards a rear end brace that bolts from
rear strut tower to rear strut tower while being
bolted to to the boot floor, that will make sure
that the distance between the strut towers
stays the same at about 1.2 / 1.5 lateral G,
but I expect you would only be able to see
that if running full slicks with a suspension
set up that would be undriveable on the road.

As regards picking up the rear diff, well if the
diff is solid mounted then fine, but if not
then somebody please explain to me how it
works ?

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[glendog74]

I love The Gorilla :smt055

[AlexGTT]

Hi,

Rear strut brace will be as much use as
a Hand brake on a canoe if your still
running a spring /shock rear end.

Bracing a damper to another damper and
the chassis does zero.

If your running coilovers but no cage etc
then it may make laetral rear end sway
a little stiffer in the dry, when your about
a wisker away from the rear end limit.

As regards a rear end brace that bolts from
rear strut tower to rear strut tower while being
bolted to to the boot floor, that will make sure
that the distance between the strut towers
stays the same at about 1.2 / 1.5 lateral G,
but I expect you would only be able to see
that if running full slicks with a suspension
set up that would be undriveable on the road.

As regards picking up the rear diff, well if the
diff is solid mounted then fine, but if not
then somebody please explain to me how it
works ?

Regards,

The Gorilla.

Agree with you Gorilla but my own personal reason for running a Safety Devices type rear strutt with floor pick-up is to, as Shimmy mentions, help prevent rear sub-frame cracking and brace the shock towers when running Intrax coilovers. Not that bothered with absolute on limit G's with slicks, etc.

If running slicks a full cage would be essential, for me.

[AlexGTT]

I love The Gorilla :smt055

You love everyone.:smt055

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

AlexGTT- The rear strut brace will do nothing to
prevent the rear subframe ripping out the boot
floor, if anything it will accelerate it.

The rear subframe seeks to leave the E46
shell due to the ''torque twist' of the diff under
extreme load.

That is why the rips in the boot floor in most
cases follow the same pattern.

By stiffening up the rear end of the shell the
loads when transmitted from the torque of the
diff into the boot floor via the diff mounts will
be greater as that area has been made more 'rigid'
and the laods which can be partially disspearsed by 'flex'
now have nowere to go.

This will accelerate the point load, which is the sub
frame mounts to the boot floor.

Hence your 'ripping' dynamics increase not reduce.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[funtime]

Hi,

AlexGTT- The rear strut brace will do nothing to
prevent the rear subframe ripping out the boot
floor, if anything it will accelerate it.

The rear subframe seeks to leave the E46
shell due to the ''torque twist' of the diff under
extreme load.

That is why the rips in the boot floor in most
cases follow the same pattern.

By stiffening up the rear end of the shell the
loads when transmitted from the torque of the
diff into the boot floor via the diff mounts will
be greater as that area has been made more 'rigid'
and the laods which can be partially disspearsed by 'flex'
now have nowere to go.

This will accelerate the point load, which is the sub
frame mounts to the boot floor.

Hence your 'ripping' dynamics increase not reduce.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

hmmm doesn't sound good, was going to order one, nowI'm not sure. When I spoke to John though he said it was designed to prevent subframe cracking. What your saying does make sense but i'd like to hear what John has to say.

After all, every race car they have runs one :)

John?

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

Unless the 'cause' of the ripping dynamics
is addressed, ie] the subframe mounts via the
boot floor, then no amount of 'stiffening'
to secondary panels is going to prevent it.

The rummour mill suggests that this issue
was addressed on later shells, but it is
an inherent design flaw.

The point being the harder the car is pushed,
reason for thinking about Thomas Fangdangle Strut Brace
in the first instance, then the more likely
the problem will be.

Unfortunatley these things sound so matter of fact
because they generally are.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[Thorney]

There are three seperate areas here:

1. Sub frame generated cracks in the boot floor
2. Running rear coil over suspension
3. Lateral stiffness running slicks
4. Running harness's

The harness bar/boot/suspension stiffener was designed for numbers 2,3 and 4 not specifically for no.1. As Gorilla says, the cause of this is a pulling motion and a strut brace etc wont really affect that. However, No.1 is covered by BMW's warranty (unless you run coil overs on the back) so our advice is to check yours is fine before fitting a strut brace or other upgrade (we do it as a matter of course on all suspension fitments). As the sub frame issue is well known and unrelated to anything other than diff movement on the floor BMW wont DK any warranty unless you have parts that will make this stress worse (slicks, coil overs).

In short, if you are worried about the cracking issue get your car checked, if its ok then mod away, if not then BMW will fix it under warranty. After this is you want to run slicks/coil overs/harness's then fit the bar.

[7.77]

was about to buy one, but with a asking price of postage @195 £, will do a different way :rolleye:

[shimmy]

Listen, I'm the only expert round here, look at my Building degree!!!:thumbs:

Gawd knows what causes or cures the floor/subframe splitting for want of a better phrase, mines fixed by BMW at great expense to them.

Harness don't bother me as I gaffer tape myself to the chair anyway

My rear rear brace is to stop the steady twisting and flexing caused by rear coil overs on the turrets, meanwhile it would help with lateral support going as fast as I do:birdman:

[AlexGTT]

Listen, I'm the only expert round here, look at my Building degree!!!:thumbs:

Gawd knows what causes or cures the floor/subframe splitting for want of a better phrase, mines fixed by BMW at great expense to them.

Harness don't bother me as I gaffer tape myself to the chair anyway

My rear rear brace is to stop the steady twisting and flexing caused by rear coil overs on the turrets, meanwhile it would help with lateral support going as fast as I do:birdman:

Feckin' hell, alright Sebastian, pipe down.;):hahaha:

Same reason as me Shim. Intrax.

[toofastforyou]

I think the SD one also fixes to the boot floor near the diff carryo points, better but more work and a risk when it cone to warranty work on rear subframe (although with this fitted I doubt any cracks will happen)

got you, see what you are saying, just checked it out.

[Thorney]

was about to buy one, but with a asking price of postage @195 £, will do a different way :rolleye:

Yep, shipping anything heavy and bulky internatinally is a waste of time. Bored of TNT now but no-one else seems to be cheaper.

[shane@mbtech]

I sent a full exhaust to good ole u s of a with my parcel force acc for £120

I imagine belgium to be cheaper, Ill get you a price if you like to belgium:thumbs:

[shimmy]

I sent a full exhaust to good ole u s of a with my parcel force acc for £120

I imagine belgium to be cheaper, Ill get you a price if you like to belgium:thumbs:


Cat converter to france was £40 fully insured

Try www.parcelmachine.co.UK :smt055

[rstoughy]

Try royal mail ;)

Middle of last year i shipped a pair of front struts and springs from Aberdeen to New Zealand and it was £80ish IIRC.

Saying that it could be the overall size of the rear brace that knocks the price up.

[sailorbaz]

While we're talking about subframe issues, excuse my ignorance but could BMW argue any Warranty claims if a TMS Limiter Kit is fitted to the RTAB's? Or would they not even notice?

My car's been in for 2 services now and no one's ever commented on them, despite being bright blue and very obvious when car is in the air.

[funtime]

While we're talking about subframe issues, excuse my ignorance but could BMW argue any Warranty claims if a TMS Limiter Kit is fitted to the RTAB's? Or would they not even notice?

My car's been in for 2 services now and no one's ever commented on them, despite being bright blue and very obvious when car is in the air.

All depends on the stealership, but I'd imagine they wouldn't comment on it untill it came to the point where they might want to riggle out of honouring a £5k repair for a new boot floor.

I can imagine it now: the bushes have play in them sir to absorb the shock
and stresses the rear is under. What you've done is effectively 'limited' this play and hence channeled more stress to the subframe, which has led to cracking. For that reason we're out. Computer says no, unluckey. :birdman:

Of course you might get a nice one that say's it's fine and takes no notice of them :)

[shimmy]

It's possible but unlikely

Mine went back to OEM apart from the RTAB limiters and AP brakes for the boot floor/subframe repair.

I they'd struggle to pin that as the root cause tbh.

Some dealers might have an issue but don't forget most are quite happy to do £5k of work as they know the owner will take it to an Indy and do it for £1k on the cheap. I'd be more worried if the local BMW rep came To the dealer ship that day and saw them tbh

[shane@mbtech]

While we're talking about subframe issues, excuse my ignorance but could BMW argue any Warranty claims if a TMS Limiter Kit is fitted to the RTAB's? Or would they not even notice?

My car's been in for 2 services now and no one's ever commented on them, despite being bright blue and very obvious when car is in the air.

In a word..... YES
Just depends on dealer
Some are jobsworth fuckwits that cut off their nose to spite their face.

[sailorbaz]

Thank you very much troops.

I think if I was taking it in I would have them removed and fit new carriers, just to be sure.

[Thorney]

Try royal mail ;)

Middle of last year i shipped a pair of front struts and springs from Aberdeen to New Zealand and it was £80ish IIRC.

Saying that it could be the overall size of the rear brace that knocks the price up.

Tried them, the issue is it volumes out so they hit it. I struggle with shippers all the time, none seem to be any good, insurance cover is non existent and bumps our prices up. Sods.

[AlexGTT]

Shippers are getting worse all the time. Try sending unique and very expensive parts from vintage and historic cars like my company has to do all the time. They sometimes absolutely refuse to even handle it, let alone insure it.

I end up putting it in the boot and delivering it myself half the time!:banghead: My only option is UPS, especially going abroad. They'll insure to any value but it's serious $$$$$$$$$ :bigcry:

[Thorney]

Yep, just spent half the day in the can dleivering and picking up a fuel tank and Recaro seats, the costs to ship them were just mad. (they refused the tank point blank, empty or not).

[shimmy]

Yep, just spent half the day in the can .....not).


:hahaha:

hope it clears up soon John

:hahaha:

[toofastforyou]

As for the AC shitzer one, why would you need BMW to fit it - 6 bolts!

if they fit it you keep your warranty, thought that was obvious:whistle:

[_Nathan_]

And if you just unbolt it they will never know it was there.

[glendog74]

And if you just unbolt it they will never know it was there.

:hahaha: :hahaha: :hahaha:

[toofastforyou]

And if you just unbolt it they will never know it was there.

touchē

thats what i would do, and will do if that happens. but some people dont want the headache.

[shimmy]

touchē

thats what i would do, and will do if that happens. but some people dont want the headache.

All well and good but you are presuming your dealer doesn't make notes of modifications that they think are serious when the car is in for a service :whistle:

[AlexGTT]

All well and good but you are presuming your dealer doesn't ake notes of modifications that they think are serious when the car is in for a service :whistle:

Quite. This I know they do. My dealer refused to replace a passenger side curtain airbag under warranty after a random deploy when driving over a sunken drain cover. Without even seeing the car they knew it had after market suspension. Cooonts.:whistle:

[toofastforyou]

All well and good but you are presuming your dealer doesn't make notes of modifications that they think are serious when the car is in for a service :whistle:

and you are assuming i dont know the service manager personally.:blalalala:

all it would cost is a few beers..... :hahaha:

i spat a shim on my e46 m3 coupe, matey told me to remove my nos, shrick cams and gruppe m ram air and it got done on warranty.:thumbs:

[_Nathan_]

lol, NOS, you haven't done yourself any favours with that admission :P

[shimmy]

and you are assuming i dont know the service manager personally.:blalalala:

all it would cost is a few beers..... :hahaha:

i spat a shim on my e46 m3 coupe, matey told me to remove my nos, shrick cams and gruppe m ram air and it got done on warranty.:thumbs:

It would have been cheaper to do the shim yourself surely rather than remove the cams ( not that they would ever have noticed) :smokin:

[toofastforyou]

It would have been cheaper to do the shim yourself surely rather than remove the cams ( not that they would ever have noticed) :smokin:

i'm not that good technically, i find it best to leave that stuff to the professionals.

i don't know about cheaper, from what I recall it was a 2-3k job. I spat the shim while doing some top speed runs on the autobahn for about an hour, and the moment i slowed down there was this awful tapping sound coming from the engine. I remember there were a few complications, and i was glad i did it on warranty.

Matey said as they are going to open up the engine it was best to remove the cams, so i did.

[toofastforyou]

lol, NOS, you haven't done yourself any favours with that admission :P


lol. i went down the nos route cos it was new to me at the time. and a couple of my mates had amg 55s and i had to even things up a little on the straights, but it turned out i did a bit more than even things out! it was actually bags of fun. wouldnt mind another car with nos, maybe an r32 turbo:whistle:

never put nos on any of the csls i owned though. different car, different respect

[_Nathan_]

You shouldve had the car trailered to them with no cams at all in it, that would've confused them :D

[alexk]

You could also claim that NOS is good for cooling down the internals of the engine :thumbs:

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

This started with Rear Strut Brace, now ''Nos''
how long before, Welded Diff and then Fluffy Dice ?

''Tokoyooooooo Drift'' here we come.


Regards,

The Gorilla.

[glendog74]

Hi,

This started with Rear Strut Brace, now ''Nos''
how long before, Welded Diff and then Fluffy Dice ?

''Tokoyooooooo Drift'' here we come.


Regards,

The Gorilla.

But... Just look at what can be achieved with some 'vision'... :bigcry:

[toofastforyou]

But... Just look at what can be achieved with some 'vision'... :bigcry:

:hahaha::hahaha:

i always wanted an m5 bumper on my csl:whistle::banghead:

[toofastforyou]

Hi,

AlexGTT- The rear strut brace will do nothing to
prevent the rear subframe ripping out the boot
floor, if anything it will accelerate it.

The rear subframe seeks to leave the E46
shell due to the ''torque twist' of the diff under
extreme load.

That is why the rips in the boot floor in most
cases follow the same pattern.

By stiffening up the rear end of the shell the
loads when transmitted from the torque of the
diff into the boot floor via the diff mounts will
be greater as that area has been made more 'rigid'
and the laods which can be partially disspearsed by 'flex'
now have nowere to go.

This will accelerate the point load, which is the sub
frame mounts to the boot floor.

Hence your 'ripping' dynamics increase not reduce.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

dear gorilla (or anyone else with an answer)

if one decides to use a rear strutbrace, how does one avoid the issues you have mentioned above associated with the use of such a device? i'm assuming other modifications will have to be made, what are they?

regards

tffy

[shimmy]

But... Just look at what can be achieved with some 'vision'... :bigcry:


Is that Lawsys Evo?

[toofastforyou]

Is that Lawsys Evo?

:gayfight::gayfight:

[shane@mbtech]

Is that Lawsys Evo?

I wont bite:hahaha:

[funtime]

dear gorilla (or anyone else with an answer)

if one decides to use a rear strutbrace, how does one avoid the issues you have mentioned above associated with the use of such a device? i'm assuming other modifications will have to be made, what are they?

regards

tffy

I would also like to know this ;)