Latest EVO

[outnumbered]

Has a test at Bedford West Circuit of the CSL (a car from BMW's heritage collection) against a new Evo X, on the basis that they're "about the same price these days - £27K".

The CSL's ultimate lap time seems a bit disappointing at 1m27.8, which is 2s slower than they managed in an E90 M3. Usual complaints about the standard brakes. I was a bit surprised as I'd have thought the CSL should be pretty close to the E90 ?

The EVO was over 1s quicker, but they do concede that the CSL was more fun.

[shane@mbtech]

Has a test at Bedford West Circuit of the CSL (a car from BMW's heritage collection) against a new Evo X, on the basis that they're "about the same price these days - £27K".

The CSL's ultimate lap time seems a bit disappointing at 1m27.8, which is 2s slower than they managed in an E90 M3. Usual complaints about the standard brakes. I was a bit surprised as I'd have thought the CSL should be pretty close to the E90 ?

The EVO was over 1s quicker, but they do concede that the CSL was more fun.

The Evo x standard does feel boring, the standard Csl feels much better
But putting coilovers on the x and good geo mdkes a huge difference, where as the Csl on coilovers and geo felt much the same but gripped better if you get where I'm coming from, the Csl out the box is a great great car, the x however needs more tweaks to feel as good. But once tweaked they are pretty good.

I was sorely tempted by an e90 but my x came up at the right price




What model x was it?

[need4speed]

What model x was it?

EVO X RS 360

[s.mac]

i've driven the palmer sport M3's at Bedford and they aren't a patch on the CSL , they dont come close ;)

[AlexGTT]

Also, it wasn't on the correct rubber. Not a Cup in sight and that would make at least 2 secs round there. Considering it's standard fitment they really should test it on the right rubber.

For some reason Evo completely reject (and always have) the fitment of Cups on a CSL but love them on a GT3/RS? What's that all about?

[niall1]

Also, it wasn't on the correct rubber. Not a Cup in sight and that would make at least 2 secs round there. Considering it's standard fitment they really should test it on the right rubber.

For some reason Evo completely reject (and always have) the fitment of Cups on a CSL but love them on a GT3/RS? What's that all about?

Would than not warrent a barage of emails suggesting that they should try an 'original' car with cups? That would cut a second or two off the lap time..

[DuncanR]

EVO should be getting on here and availing themselves of all the correct information regards the CSL before attempting such a head to head again !! ..... wtf do they know ??:hahaha:

[shane@mbtech]

Would than not warrent a barage of emails suggesting that they should try an 'original' car with cups? That would cut a second or two off the lap time..

The X rs is only 300bhp standard and they dont do a rs360 version officially.
They do an fq360, but the rs is an import.

JRM will have supplied the car as they remap the X rs's. They sell a 360 rs and also a 400rs.

[azrael]

The X rs is only 300bhp standard and they dont do a rs360 version officially.
They do an fq360, but the rs is an import.

JRM will have supplied the car as they remap the X rs's. They sell a 360 rs and also a 400rs.

Yep JRM Supplied the Car and powers up to 360 from 276 apparently

Test based on power to weight being similar

[shane@mbtech]

The 360 X rs by JRM only has standard brakes and standard suspension too,
Was the CSL on standard suspension and brakes too?

[weyzi]

i've driven the palmer sport M3's at Bedford and they aren't a patch on the CSL , they dont come close ;)

agree i drove the m3 at palmer sport and not a patch on CSL

[AlexGTT]

The 360 X rs by JRM only has standard brakes and standard suspension too,
Was the CSL on standard suspension and brakes too?

Yep, all standard....................apart from no Cups.:whistle:

[shimmy]

Has a test at Bedford West Circuit of the CSL (a car from BMW's heritage collection) against a new Evo X, on the basis that they're "about the same price these days - £27K".

The CSL's ultimate lap time seems a bit disappointing at 1m27.8, which is 2s slower than they managed in an E90 M3. Usual complaints about the standard brakes. I was a bit surprised as I'd have thought the CSL should be pretty close to the E90 ?

The EVO was over 1s quicker, but they do concede that the CSL was more fun.

Just found this old thread, Evo CSL 1m 27.4 compared to my best time today of 1m 21.4 secs. I think the AP brakes make no difference as you oly do 2 fast laps so no issue of brake cooling, but I am guessing the suspension upgrade will help grip and braking.

[outnumbered]

That's in the same ballpark as Evo have for the F430 Scud or GT3RS... so either you are a driving god Shimmy, or the Evo guys are not as good as they make out ! :thumbs:

[shimmy]

Well you all know the answer to that question :119:


The are crap, obviously and most here would slaughter their poxy times



http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp97/shimmylasco/CSL/24a90c2c.jpg

[83SY]

Has a test at Bedford West Circuit of the CSL (a car from BMW's heritage collection) against a new Evo X, on the basis that they're "about the same price these days - £27K".

The CSL's ultimate lap time seems a bit disappointing at 1m27.8, which is 2s slower than they managed in an E90 M3. Usual complaints about the standard brakes. I was a bit surprised as I'd have thought the CSL should be pretty close to the E90 ?

The EVO was over 1s quicker, but they do concede that the CSL was more fun.

I've rallied an Evo and driven the new m3. I expect the driver wasn't capable of getting the most out of the CSL, much harder car to drive on the limit + as the guys said cup tyres are a few seconds. CSL in the right hands would be quicker but anyone can drive the an Evo semi quickly

[83SY]

+ as shimmy just highlighted he smashes the Evo times by six seconds!
Evo mag state the standard e46 m3 is three tenths quicker 0-60 than the CSL!
What planet are they on???

[Spooks]

Evo mag state the standard e46 m3 is three tenths quicker 0-60 than the CSL!
What planet are they on???

I have often wondered that as well, both bold text so tested times. What is a realistic 0-60 mph for the CSL?

[digi]

Well you all know the answer to that question :119:


The are crap, obviously and most here would slaughter their poxy times



http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp97/shimmylasco/CSL/24a90c2c.jpg

impressive!!! :notworthy: Now Evo need to get their people some driving lessons. :-D

[Pooky]

Just asked John Barker about this and he texted back to say EVO don't go over the white lines or kerbs on their official times to try to remove different drivers and make the car comparison reliable. Had to point this out to Tiff as well.

[shimmy]

Just asked John Barker about this and he texted back to say EVO don't go over the white lines or kerbs on their official times to try to remove different drivers and make the car comparison reliable. Had to point this out to Tiff as well.

and if only that were true ....

maybe he should watch the Evo vids of the CSL mounting every kerb on every corner :)

as far as i can tell from the vid we had exactly the same cone positions and restrictions as the Evo driver

[83SY]

Just asked John Barker about this and he texted back to say EVO don't go over the white lines or kerbs on their official times to try to remove different drivers and make the car comparison reliable. Had to point this out to Tiff as well.

In think unless it's a porker gt3 RS evo just kick the tyres and do a couple of steady laps. They do write some rubbish!

I would say the CSL 0-60 is sub 5.0 secs

[Curly]

Fantastic time shim:thumbs:i'd struggle to get near that in the shopper:)

[AlexGTT]

My conclusion is Evo are double shite cos Shimmy ain't no God. :birdman::whistle::wink:

That's impressive Shim. :notworthy: Have you got a vid? Bet the Evo office would hate to see a copy. I think you should write in with vid attached and dare them to publish.:-D

[Straightsix]

I suspect the 0 - 100km/h for E46 M3 Coupe is 4.8seconds (according to Autocar) and probably about 4.7seconds (according to Autocar though i cannot remember)

I have read the little section on BMW E46 M3 CS/BMW E46 M3 CSL in Evo

If u take away the Cup tyres.......that reflects the real speed of the road car....

The Cup tyres add a fair amount of mechanical grip which would make any M3 go quicker. I wonder how a standard CSL on Michelin Cups would do against a standard E46 M3 Coupe on Michelin Cups round somewhere like the Nurburgring (or any other race track)?

PS
Shimmy that is a great time by the sound of things........what are the differences between the M3 CSL tested (161 BMW) and yours in terms of modifications?

I agree u should send a video

[shimmy]

If u take away the Cup tyres.......that reflects the real speed of the road car....






:ban:

[Straightsix]

:ban:

I do not mean to offend anyone here....i am a big fan of the M3 CSL myself....but i was just saying tyres make a difference and the M3 CSL is one of the greatest if not the greatest BMW M ever made....

[shimmy]

:ban::smt067:smt043I do not mean to offend anyone here....i am a big fan of the M3 CSL myself....but i was just saying tyres make a difference and the M3 CSL is one of the greatest if not the greatest BMW M ever made....


:ban::ban::smt067:smt043

[Straightsix]

:ban::smt067:smt043


:ban::ban::smt067:smt043

ok if u take offence that easily then that is down to you.........

[shimmy]

ok if u take offence that easily then that is down to you.........

Just kidding.....:smokin::thumbs:

It's an easy thing to say but to be honest it doesn't make sense. It's like saying if you put a 1.6L Focus engine in a Ferrari Enzo, it won't go so fast, true but not really of any interest. The CSL came with Cups as a factory fitted choice and it came with an airbox and cams the same. Doesn't mean when you compare you should start swapping and deleting them.

[CraigMillwardCroft]

Nice to see you new making friends Shimmy :whistle:

[shimmy]

Nice to see you new making friends Shimmy :whistle:

Wasnt my aim to ailianate anybody.......



But I have a full friends quota (3 :-D)

[Straightsix]

Just kidding.....:smokin::thumbs:

It's an easy thing to say but to be honest it doesn't make sense. It's like saying if you put a 1.6L Focus engine in a Ferrari Enzo, it won't go so fast, true but not really of any interest. The CSL came with Cups as a factory fitted choice and it came with an airbox and cams the same. Doesn't mean when you compare you should start swapping and deleting them.

oh ok i hear what u are saying. I thought Cups were options and pilot sports were standard but to be honest i cannot remember.

Yes but in the name of physics or science i was interested in how a standard CSL on pilot sports compared with a standard M3 on pilot sports or put both on cups and would like to know how much quicker the CSL is round the Nurburgring or any other race track?

Yes the CSL should be quicker but would be interesting to see how much.

Also i imagine (though i am not 100% on this) when the BMW M Engineers designed/developed/tested the CSL the handling/suspension/overall dynamics were designed specifically with the Pilot Sport Cups "particular" handling characteristics in mind....so maybe the CSL would not be 100% in the "sweet spot" when no Cups compared to with Cups if this makes any sense?

[shimmy]

oh ok i hear what u are saying. I thought Cups were options and pilot sports were standard but to be honest i cannot remember.

Yes but in the name of physics or science i was interested in how a standard CSL on pilot sports compared with a standard M3 on pilot sports or put both on cups and would like to know how much quicker the CSL is round the Nurburgring or any other race track?

Yes the CSL should be quicker but would be interesting to see how much.

Also i imagine (though i am not 100% on this) when the BMW M Engineers designed/developed/tested the CSL the handling/suspension/overall dynamics were designed specifically with the Pilot Sport Cups "particular" handling characteristics in mind....so maybe the CSL would not be 100% in the "sweet spot" when no Cups compared to with Cups if this makes any sense?

Yes I think you would be correct on most of this but the benefits built into the CSL for the Ring do help on other tracks although perhaps to so big a benefit.

I'm not a Ring-man but plenty on here who re and can help:gayfight:

[AlexGTT]

oh ok i hear what u are saying. I thought Cups were options and pilot sports were standard but to be honest i cannot remember.

Yes but in the name of physics or science i was interested in how a standard CSL on pilot sports compared with a standard M3 on pilot sports or put both on cups and would like to know how much quicker the CSL is round the Nurburgring or any other race track?

Yes the CSL should be quicker but would be interesting to see how much.

Also i imagine (though i am not 100% on this) when the BMW M Engineers designed/developed/tested the CSL the handling/suspension/overall dynamics were designed specifically with the Pilot Sport Cups "particular" handling characteristics in mind....so maybe the CSL would not be 100% in the "sweet spot" when no Cups compared to with Cups if this makes any sense?

You seem to overlook one very significant factor.............weight. Straight line there's nothing much in it. Make it fun, introduce corners and the CSL comes alive. It's not just the Cups. It's the confidence and feel of the car. It inspires and makes going that little bit faster everywhere so much easier than a full fat M3. Look at the ring time of the GTS compared to CSL. Weight is the enemy.:wink:

And yes, Cups were OEM on the CSL but you could option PS2's.........if you were pussy.

[Straightsix]

You seem to overlook one very significant factor.............weight. Straight line there's nothing much in it. Make it fun, introduce corners and the CSL comes alive. It's not just the Cups. It's the confidence and feel of the car. It inspires and makes going that little bit faster everywhere so much easier than a full fat M3. Look at the ring time of the GTS compared to CSL. Weight is the enemy.:wink:

And yes, Cups were OEM on the CSL but you could option PS2's.........if you were pussy.

Nice thanks for explaining :smt023

[AlexGTT]

Nice thanks for explaining :smt023

Out of interest, have you driven a CSL yet?

[Straightsix]

Out of interest, have you driven a CSL yet?

I have only ever driven one CSL and that was in 2010 which was being sold via Nick Johnson. I did not buy it because there were things i was not happy with.

I would really love to have a CSL but tbh i just think there are few really good ones out there.

I dont have the experience u guys have driving them and if i am honest i think i could have done with a longer test driveto appreciate the engineering differences between a CSL and regular E46 M3 Coupe (which i have plenty of experience of). They are bloody quick though....well when i swapped seats with Nick Johnson i meant and he was showing me what it could do round his back roads....

[O'Neill]

The EVO time compared to shimmys was a bit compromised due to:

1. He had a passenger

2. Weather looked cold and damp

3. No cup tyres

4. Probably first time driving the car/not getting the most out of it.

5. Clutch slur

6. He was sliding around a bit/ probably show boating to blonde passenger/ having fun

All this taken in to account he probably could have went a few seconds quicker, a couple more with mods:whistle:

[shimmy]

Tbh a fit blond would have made me go faster......:partyman:

[O'Neill]

Tbh a fit blond would have made me go faster......:partyman:

:hahaha: What to get her out quicker, I would have drove slower :partyman:

[northernjim]

Tbh a fit blond would have made me go faster......:partyman:

tbh I think we all 'go' off a bit quicker with a fit blonde:hahaha::banghead: