A quick Alcon brake review (glass half full for Dan) ;-)

[titan]

Righto, first trackday in the CSL...Snetterton. I've done Snet around 4 times in the past so it should make for a reasonable assessment on the car rather than trying to learn lines etc etc

Initial assessment is that they have all the stopping power you need, certainly (it was dry) I was seeing some ABS action on hard braking (conti sport tyres). I think a quote from someone else sums it up "King of the Late Brakers"

However longevity, feel and noise/vibration is an issue. After a few laps I was getting slight wobble in the wheel, moreso under braking, the pedal didn't feel as rock solid and braking produced that droning, rumbling noise.

Quick inspection of the discs and they show a "smearing" in sections and the surface is lined rather than a smooth finish.

Driving the car home and its pretty bad now. Now I'm no brake guru, so I'm open to suggestions here, but this seems to be exactly what happened on my brothers R26R when we used an incorrect pad compound. The pad can't deal with the heat and starts to break down, putting deposits onto the disc and generally its all a bit crap.

I am using RS29's. One suggestion offered up was to try RS19s.

As I say, I've experienced this before and to a lesser degree on the evo using carbotech pads - the fix was to simply move up a compound.

I think I'll have a go at cleaning up the discs (unlikely that they are warped) and switch over to carbotech XP10s - this being what I run on the evo which is a similar weight car. I have zero issues with longevity using these pads and I think they'll work just fine. I believe the pads are the exact same on the evo so it would be nice to only keep stock of one pad for both cars.

UBs assessment of the brakes were that they are "monsters" certainly I have been surprised at how much the rear brakes seem to bring to the party. From what I've seen my generalisation is that people who choose AP tend to do only the fronts whereas people choosing Alcon do the whole kit. Not sure why this is, Alcon do recommend doing front and rear as a matched set to not upset bias, I'm sure AP recommend the same as well.

Anyhow a good day and made a lot better by turning off the DSC entirely - I was under the impression that "track mode" was lots less intrusive, my reality was that it cut in far too much and got in the way. I note that on Gareths car with his R888 he didn't get much telltale light on the dash so no surprises big rubber also helps.

[shimmy]

RS29 are superb so not the cause so dont bother replacing them. They are hard as can be and you certainly dont want harder metal based pads and all that entails.

giove them a clean and see what happens.

Most likely cause is that you have not bedded them in properly (assuming they were fitted new). Did you do the full sickeningh bedding in process?



Righto, first trackday in the CSL...Snetterton. I've done Snet around 4 times in the past so it should make for a reasonable assessment on the car rather than trying to learn lines etc etc

Initial assessment is that they have all the stopping power you need, certainly (it was dry) I was seeing some ABS action on hard braking (conti sport tyres). I think a quote from someone else sums it up "King of the Late Brakers"

However longevity, feel and noise/vibration is an issue. After a few laps I was getting slight wobble in the wheel, moreso under braking, the pedal didn't feel as rock solid and braking produced that droning, rumbling noise.

Quick inspection of the discs and they show a "smearing" in sections and the surface is lined rather than a smooth finish.

Driving the car home and its pretty bad now. Now I'm no brake guru, so I'm open to suggestions here, but this seems to be exactly what happened on my brothers R26R when we used an incorrect pad compound. The pad can't deal with the heat and starts to break down, putting deposits onto the disc and generally its all a bit crap.

I am using RS29's. One suggestion offered up was to try RS19s.

As I say, I've experienced this before and to a lesser degree on the evo using carbotech pads - the fix was to simply move up a compound.

I think I'll have a go at cleaning up the discs (unlikely that they are warped) and switch over to carbotech XP10s - this being what I run on the evo which is a similar weight car. I have zero issues with longevity using these pads and I think they'll work just fine. I believe the pads are the exact same on the evo so it would be nice to only keep stock of one pad for both cars.

UBs assessment of the brakes were that they are "monsters" certainly I have been surprised at how much the rear brakes seem to bring to the party. From what I've seen my generalisation is that people who choose AP tend to do only the fronts whereas people choosing Alcon do the whole kit. Not sure why this is, Alcon do recommend doing front and rear as a matched set to not upset bias, I'm sure AP recommend the same as well.

Anyhow a good day and made a lot better by turning off the DSC entirely - I was under the impression that "track mode" was lots less intrusive, my reality was that it cut in far too much and got in the way. I note that on Gareths car with his R888 he didn't get much telltale light on the dash so no surprises big rubber also helps.

[_Nathan_]

RS29 are fine for longetivity, used in 24H races for a start, no issues with them on mine (Aps all round if that makes any difference).

Quote from Pagid on the RS29
"Yellow Direct development of RS19, with improved initial bite and offering more temperature stable operation at higher temperatures"

Not sure that 19 will offer you anything more?

[Dan]

Cheers Lee, glad you had a good day and gave a decent review on them! ;)

[shane@mbtech]

I rate the Alcons no better than the AP's to be honest.
They look the part, but offer no better braking. #
Ive ran, K sports, ap, alcon, standard all on my CSL.

[NZ_M3]

I had the exact same issues when I started with my Alcons - tried various pad options, STS from Alcon, Ferod DS2500, DS3000 RS2.1, and now Pagid RS29 - it's a bedding in issue and a heat retention issue with the Alcons - especially on a CSL and the lack of cooling vents for brakes.

The DS3000 are boarderline but will start to grumble and rumble and eventually cause juddering after very hard braking, the RS2.1s I've not yet tried, and the Pagid RS29s are brilliant but needs to be bedded in properly.

If you are seeing smearing in sections then the pads are breaking down unevenly.

Another possibility is the mounting - if the caliper isn't mounted parallel to the disc it'll cause this - very easy to do with the Alcons when changing pads as you basically have to disassemble the caliper from the mounting brackets - very easy to put them on slightly offset - measure it.

Check back on an old thread I put up on the exact same issues.

[glendog74]

Isn't it somewhat ironic that you are now getting issues with your Alcons - especially as you pretty much rubbished APs in another thread :whistle: :


Past that its all about brakes and suspension on track cars. Don't go wasting money on APs which get so many duff customer feedbacks (rattling, warped/cracked discs) as well as good, so straight for the Alcon kit which *only* gets great reviews. 365 up front (bigger than AP) and 348 rears I think. Either buy from an Alcon place, or get the CSL Cup kit from Thorney, its the same thing.


This certainly isn't the first time that i have read of problem issues with the Alcon kit - there was a thread on this very site some time ago and i have also seen stuff written elsewhere. I think people seem to get blinded by the whole 'Alcon has bigger/monobloc callipers and costs more than AP so must be better' syndrome...

I am on my second full set of AP discs and fourth set of RS29s and have never had issues in 2 years of track abuse. My first set of front discs did have one of the dreaded AP cracks on the inside face of one disc but this was only evident after almost 15k miles. And ok, i do have some of the annoying squeaking and 'thunks' from the RS29 pads - but that is a minor issue to me as i don't use it as a daily driver anymore and certainly don't feel the need to pose around town in my CSL!

At the end of the day all BBKs and any other brake kit for that matter can have the issues that you and others have experienced, especially if not bedded in correctly.

Just my 2p worth...

[glendog74]

From what I've seen my generalisation is that people who choose AP tend to do only the fronts whereas people choosing Alcon do the whole kit. Not sure why this is, Alcon do recommend doing front and rear as a matched set to not upset bias, I'm sure AP recommend the same as well.

You'll find many people who upgrade only the fronts to AP brakes do so with road use in mind as they don't always intend to track the car. AP fronts are somewhat cheaper than Alcons and have been around a lot longer in the M3 CSL lifespan whereas Alcons are relatively new on the scene with respect to the M3 CSL iirc. A no brainer for someone who purely wants reliable braking would be to go AP and many of these kits would have been fitted some years ago.

Anyhow a good day and made a lot better by turning off the DSC entirely - I was under the impression that "track mode" was lots less intrusive, my reality was that it cut in far too much and got in the way. I note that on Gareths car with his R888 he didn't get much telltale light on the dash so no surprises big rubber also helps.

'M Track' mode is a lot less intrusive on track - especially if you are a smooth driver. I very rarely get the DSC light up when driving on track. If it does it is usually due to wet/damp patches on track or when the car goes light - on certain points of the Nurburgring for example, Flugplatz, Pflanzgarten, etc.

If you drive the car aggressively or are not smooth then the DSC will cut in - simples!

[shimmy]

I've had at APs for 50k miles and 50 trackdays. More than adequate and the better driver you become the less trouble you get from them.

Swapping out the pads and discs is the easiest job in the world BUT OCCASSIONALLY you get depositsxand rumbling. Key id to bed in very hard and fully after fitting. My callipers have been faultless, I had all pistons seals replaced as preventative repair this year.

I can categorically say that on E46 there can be no other reason for fitting another make other than cost.

[DazBlackCSL]

+1

[northernjim]

Initial assessment is that they have all the stopping power you need, certainly (it was dry) I was seeing some ABS action on hard braking (conti sport tyres). I think a quote from someone else sums it up "King of the Late Brakers"

However longevity, feel and noise/vibration is an issue. After a few laps I was getting slight wobble in the wheel, moreso under braking, the pedal didn't feel as rock solid and braking produced that droning, rumbling noise.

Quick inspection of the discs and they show a "smearing" in sections and the surface is lined rather than a smooth finish.

Driving the car home and its pretty bad now. Now I'm no brake guru, so I'm open to suggestions here, but this seems to be exactly what happened on my brothers R26R when we used an incorrect pad compound. The pad can't deal with the heat and starts to break down, putting deposits onto the disc and generally its all a bit crap.

I am using RS29's. One suggestion offered up was to try RS19s.

As I say, I've experienced this before and to a lesser degree on the evo using carbotech pads - the fix was to simply move up a compound.

I think I'll have a go at cleaning up the discs (unlikely that they are warped)


I think that this may be your problem Titan - In my experience pagid pads need some road miles to bed them in before being used on track, if your pads look like they have melted then just remove the glazed material with a file and then do a few miles to re-align the surfaces and they'll be fine...


RS29 are superb so not the cause:beer: so dont bother replacing them. They are hard as can be and you certainly dont want harder metal based pads and all that entails.

give them a clean and see what happens.

Most likely cause is that you have not bedded them in properly (assuming they were fitted new). Did you do the full sickeningh bedding in process?


Spot on shimmy

[titan]

Isn't it somewhat ironic that you are now getting issues with your Alcons - especially as you pretty much rubbished APs in another thread :whistle:

This is simply a pad or bedding in issue, not an issue with the alcons as such. All I was getting at is that there seem to be lots of complaints on the AP gear, do the searches for APs and cracked discs on this forum and others, thats where I'm coming from...

Could well be bedding in issues as one of the discs was replaced (a disc got carved up on the blue M3 ding).

Good to hear that RS29s get the thumbs up. I may still try the carbotechs purely cos of the relationship I have with them, the convenience on only stocking one pad for two cars etc. Plus they just work! and are quite disc friendly.

Won't be doing anything for a week or so since the car has no steering wheel - off for a retrim :)

[shane@mbtech]

My view on brake kits for the CSL.

The Alcons where good, but for me lacked the agressiveness that I had become accustomed to in the AP's.

The Alcons felt unbalanced to me, they upset the car as they gave too much brake effect to the rear, for road unnoticeable, but on track it was apparent. I tried differing compounds front to rear to try to balance, but they always made the car feel unstable on "on the limit" braking.
If on a very very fast pace they felt good, then stepping up a level, made it feel squirmy and sacrificed corner exit speed for me.

This will be why you were tail happy as I noticed this when I changed from AP fronts with K sport rears to alcon front and rear. The brake bias was out and this for track use would need addressing.

Tried different compound pads, but always felt to me, more road friendly than track friendly.

Alcons certainly look the best in my view.

APs are the recommended set-up for me for track work.
K sport if you cant quite stretch to AP's. £1100 for fronts with same results as AP's.

[uncle benz]

Try putting some road miles on and see if they clean up. Oakie had exactly the same issue yesterday with the stoptechs on his e36 . He was running rs29 compound too, and my ap's with ds2500's (shhh) were the same by the end of the day. Oakie drove the 160 miles back to my shop today and his discs were cleaned and perfect by the time he arrived. I have this most times with the ds2500's, and they have cleaned up everytime so far. I found snetterton to be quite demanding on the brakes, and there was a little bit of youthful exuberance on show yesterday too...
Interestingly my stock rears were really getting hot yesterday, but with hindsight I think it's probably because I use the dsc track mode all the time, and I think it uses the rear brakes to reel the car in.

[azrael]

I had contis once and used them on track once, was easy to lock up the wheels under heavy braking. So in short they were pants, might explain why yr dsc was intrusive :)

[DazBlackCSL]

Had Zero issues with AP's in 40k miles tons of laps of the ring tons of track days and loads of road miles ...

Alcons on my race car looked better that's a given especially on the rears but any better than my road AP's ??? I doubt it and nothing that is noticeable for the extra cash ...

Would love some plain yellow alcons with the black logo on .. But only for the looks :hahaha:

Bed either of them in correctly and treat em properly and neither will give you any issues, RS29s seem to be perfect for both

[Rutkowski]

Talking about brake pads - what pads do you guys recommend for my set up. The pads i currentlly have seem to be made from chocolate.

The stock set up gives a nice 'bite'. Before i went for Brembo GT i had uprated pads (Pagid Blue) hose and fluid. I absolutely hated the squicking noise around town. Is there a compromise? I don't mind little noise and you won't see me much on track either so nothing hardcore either...... TIA.

[_Nathan_]

I wouldn't hesitate to use rs29 on a road car, if you are using your brakes hard enough to think normal pads are made from chocolate then just bite the bullet.

[titan]

My bro has RS29s on his R26.R on the road. Ace for track, all I'll say is that in his car in say a carpark you have to be very gentle with the brakes, they are quite grabby and typically anything not bolted down makes a dash for the windscreen ;-)

[_Nathan_]

I ran them as a road pad for years and never had that problem, maybe the Renault is even more servod than the BMW?

[Dan]

I ran them as a road pad for years and never had that problem, maybe the Renault is even more servod than the BMW?

I would agree with you there, I run Pagid RS29's all round at the moment and don't have this problem, perhaps that's because I'm on OEM calipers but they certainly don't bite that bad at all!

My only gripe with them is the squealing around town, I sound like a 40ft artic pulling up but considering its only people around that I'll never see again I really don't give a shit! Lol

[alexk]

I would agree with you there, I run Pagid RS29's all round at the moment and don't have this problem, perhaps that's because I'm on OEM calipers but they certainly don't bite that bad at all!

My only gripe with them is the squealing around town, I sound like a 40ft artic pulling up but considering its only people around that I'll never see again I really don't give a shit! Lol

I had the same problem and threw them away.
Happy with my RS-14s now in the AP racing brakes :thumbs:

[AlexGTT]

Would love some plain yellow alcons with the black logo on .. But only for the looks :hahaha:



:hahaha::hahaha: Typical Dazza.;) We love you mate.:smt055

The AP discs issues are known. I've had them myself but the caliper is absolutely fine. Pedal feel is progressive, fade non-existant lap after lap. Some find AP's discs a problem, others not. I prefer the PF discs.

As mentioned before Titan's problems seem to be bedding in. Do this right and you cannot go wrong with RS29's. On raod or track. I've run the same set-up for 3 years. Simples.:smokin:

[Dan]

:hahaha::hahaha: Typical Dazza.;) We love you mate.:smt055

The AP discs issues are known. I've had them myself but the caliper is absolutely fine. Pedal feel is progressive, fade non-existant lap after lap. Some find AP's discs a problem, others not. I prefer the PF discs.

As mentioned before Titan's problems seem to be bedding in. Do this right and you cannot go wrong with RS29's. On raod or track. I've run the same set-up for 3 years. Simples.:smokin:

Did Simpsons bed yours in properly for you Alex? I think this has got to be the best route, let an expert do it once and do it right! Julian bedded my pads for me when I was last there :thumbs:

[shimmy]

Did Simpsons bed yours in properly for you Alex? I think this has got to be the best route, let an expert do it once and do it right! Julian bedded my pads for me when I was last there :thumbs:


pads are pretty easy, discs are alot harder

Pete Collen at AP did mine once when i was up there getting my discs sorted and i felt sick for 3 days! :whistle:

[DazBlackCSL]

Pete Collen at AP did me once when i was up there getting my discs sorted and i felt sick for 3 days! :whistle:

Not the train again shim :hahaha:

[Bealo]

I agree with the boys :thumbs:

AP's with RS29's all i have used on road and track i must be lucky as mine have never squealed.

[AlexGTT]

Did Simpsons bed yours in properly for you Alex? I think this has got to be the best route, let an expert do it once and do it right! Julian bedded my pads for me when I was last there :thumbs:

No Dan. Bedding them in is my job.;)

[shane@mbtech]

I agree with the boys :thumbs:

AP's with RS29's all i have used on road and track i must be lucky as mine have never squealed.


When used properly there will be no squealing.:beer:

~Its the guys who potter about like miss daisy, that suffer more squealing. ;):gayfight:

[Dan]

When used properly there will be no squealing.:beer:

~Its the guys who potter about like miss daisy, that suffer more squealing. ;):gayfight:

I do agree that on track they dont squeal when hot, it's only on crappy commuter routes that they do it!

[Rutkowski]

I wouldn't hesitate to use rs29 on a road car, if you are using your brakes hard enough to think normal pads are made from chocolate then just bite the bullet.

:thumbs: i think i will..... thanks buddy!

[northernjim]

No Dan. Bedding them in is my job.;)

Like your attitude Alex :smokin:

[titan]

Righto, got around to having a wee look at the brakes. I gave them a very quick sanding with light grit, more to remove the rust than anything else...

Nothing wrong with this disc...

http://www.projectevo.co.uk/gallery2/d/886-2/012_001.JPG

Not so sure about the pads though, one had a smearing on it (looked like a clay surface) and both were glazed...after a bit of sanding they were left looking like this:

http://www.projectevo.co.uk/gallery2/d/889-1/014_001.JPG

Do these look normal or not? I've only ever seen used pads that are near the end of their life (well shagged), these are missing about 1mm or 2mm.

I didn't get pictures of the other side cos I ran out of time however the other disc wasn't as nice, it had some very slight scoring but also some patches of deposits.

Although I'm still not 100% convinced about the condition of the pads I think I'll put this "problem" down to bedding in. These brakes came off the blue M3 I wrote off but but but (and here it comes), the front left disc was a brand new item (the original was munched in the crash) and now I think of it, I don't recall bedding in the brakes as it was absolutely pissing it down when I collected the car. Seems to make sense, the disc thats in the worse condition is the one that wasn't bedded in properly...

ah well live and learn. Whilst I had them apart I checked and sure enough the pads I use on the evo alcon kit are the exact same as these. So I'll probably move over to using carbotech pads anyway as they work fine for me on the evo and its easier to only carry one type of spare.

[billy-m3cutters]

Heard good things about rs29s and carbotechs pads I don't think IMO any of them are better than each other.


It's always down to bedding in to determine your going to get the best out of your brakes.


I'm running d2 bbk exact same as k-sports and standard pads are nothing great although brake pedal is still better than standard. But will be looking to purchase carbotech pads myself.

GL Titan.

[Pip1968]

[quote=titan;69570]Although I'm still not 100% convinced about the condition of the pads I think I'll put this "problem" down to bedding in. These brakes came off the blue M3 I wrote off but but but (and here it comes), the front left disc was a brand new item (the original was munched in the crash) and now I think of it, I don't recall bedding in the brakes as it was absolutely pissing it down when I collected the car. Seems to make sense, the disc thats in the worse condition is the one that wasn't bedded in properly...
[quote]

Titan, surely this also part of the problem. I may have got the wrong end of the stick but surely running a set up with one new disc and one old will also cause disparity and problems with bedding in and performance.

Pip

[AlexGTT]

[quote=titan;69570]Although I'm still not 100% convinced about the condition of the pads I think I'll put this "problem" down to bedding in. These brakes came off the blue M3 I wrote off but but but (and here it comes), the front left disc was a brand new item (the original was munched in the crash) and now I think of it, I don't recall bedding in the brakes as it was absolutely pissing it down when I collected the car. Seems to make sense, the disc thats in the worse condition is the one that wasn't bedded in properly...
[quote]

Titan, surely this also part of the problem. I may have got the wrong end of the stick but surely running a set up with one new disc and one old will also cause disparity and problems with bedding in and performance.

Pip

Indeed.:thumbs: This is a basic rule with anything brake related. For that matter, even suspension/shocker related.

[titan]

True, but depends on what you call an "old disc".

In my case, the "old" disc and pads had seen just 500 motorway miles. They were untouched. Whilst the LH disc was damaged and clearly needed replacing, you'd have a hard time convincing anyone about the RH disc - it looked brand new !

Anyhow, its neither here nor there in the big scheme of things. The typical worst case scenario in cases like these is that you have to chuck both new discs and pads at the car, but in doing so you restore everything to brand new goodness :)

[titan]

Right think I've sussed the problem of the vibration and dodgy brake disc.

The evidence:

1. With the CSL wheels on the car the problem is there and gets worse.
2. Change to other wheels the problem lessens and with enough driving goes away.
3. Simpson measured the runouts on the discs and whilst a little off, said it was minor.
4. When the garage changed my tyres they asked if I knew one of the wheels had been welded/repaired..you'll never guess which one...

I haven't had the csl wheels on the car for a while now and all braking shudders/noises and disc smearing has gone away, same discs and pads. I'm 95% sure that if I refitted the csl wheels it would come back.

So, one can only assume the csl wheel is twisted in some way so that under braking its putting uneven force/wobble into the disc which leads to crappyness.

The ultimate test will come on Friday where I'll get the brakes cooking on a trackday. If it comes back with heat I'll have to assume the pads aren't right for me, but suspect it won't. Plenty people run RS29s without issue.

[AlexGTT]

Right think I've sussed the problem of the vibration and dodgy brake disc.

The evidence:

1. With the CSL wheels on the car the problem is there and gets worse.
2. Change to other wheels the problem lessens and with enough driving goes away.
3. Simpson measured the runouts on the discs and whilst a little off, said it was minor.
4. When the garage changed my tyres they asked if I knew one of the wheels had been welded/repaired..you'll never guess which one...

I haven't had the csl wheels on the car for a while now and all braking shudders/noises and disc smearing has gone away, same discs and pads. I'm 95% sure that if I refitted the csl wheels it would come back.

So, one can only assume the csl wheel is twisted in some way so that under braking its putting uneven force/wobble into the disc which leads to crappyness.

The ultimate test will come on Friday where I'll get the brakes cooking on a trackday. If it comes back with heat I'll have to assume the pads aren't right for me, but suspect it won't. Plenty people run RS29s without issue.

Makes sense and glad you (probably) have found the issue.:thumbs:

You will be fine with RS29's.

[titan]

Well, got to Oulton with perfectly quiet brakes, no smearing on the discs, no issues.

After 5 laps or so they get hot and start to become noisy as well as producing vibration. Cooling off helped a little but ultimately thats the way they stay for the rest of the day.

The drive back and some gentle cold braking has put them back to rights, this was not possible with the CSL wheels on, so that was definitely an issue, however I'm not happy with the pads results when hot.

I went out with a guy in the previous gen M3 on slicks, same pads and his did exactly the same.

I've now swapped them out for the carbotech XP10s and have a double trackday weekend coming up so here's hoping :-)

On the evo (exact same alcon brake kit at the front) I never had any issues and could stay out on track until i ran out of fuel or fainted (always the former in the evo ;-) ) Sure the evo is a bit lighter (1340Kg vs 1450Kg), but it also has to stop from a much greater speed due to its huge power, so its comparable.

I'll report back because I know you all care deeply about this issue and await a report with held breath ;-)

[_Nathan_]

Glad you have moved forward so to speak. Not sure on the pads though, they are used at le mans etc and don't display the issues you seem to have?

[titan]

Who knows eh.

There's no obvious markings on the pads so whilst the csl cup kit is meant to ship with these, they could be something else. They might not have been bedded in correctly, it might be that I've only done tracks so far which are hard on brakes, it could be that I'm far more aggressive with brakes etc. Is le man an open circuit like the 'ring? Cos thats not hard on brakes particularly.

The telling point for me though was the trip out in the E36 M3 with the same pads which did *exactly* the same thing.


The RS29 lists a constant working temp of 400-700 degrees.

I can't find what carbotech XP10 is, but the XP8 is 90 to 740 degrees and I had similar issues with XP8, so I stepped up to XP10. The XP10 lists fade resistance up to 900 degrees.

I'll find out this week, all I've changed is the pads :-)

[_Nathan_]

Are they yellow?

[shane@mbtech]

Lee

I noticed the same as you on rs29s
I thought maybe it was just me as most on here don't have them issues
My alcons chewed the 29s like it was jelly too

Maybe we are a pair of twats on the brakes ;)

I'm running xp10 on my x in the alcons, I'll report back next week from snet

Ps what lap times where you running at oulton?

Ps

[titan]

Can't tell now ;-)

but yes I believe they were yellow and I know that RS29s are yellow. So are RS19s though so not quite conclusive. I'm pretty sure I was told they were RS29. Makes no odds though, proof of the pudding will be this weekend.

[shane@mbtech]

Can't tell now ;-)

but yes I believe they were yellow and I know that RS29s are yellow. So are RS19s though so not quite conclusive. I'm pretty sure I was told they were RS29. Makes no odds though, proof of the pudding will be this weekend.

Laptimes ;)

[AlexGTT]

Strange issue you have. I'm running AP's, PF discs and RS29's (like very many CSL owners) so maybe not comparable to your Alcons but the noise/vibration you talk of does happen occassionally to my car. But it's usually just getting rid of pansy :gayfight:road driving deposits on discs/pads. After a good warm up on track it's gone completely and all day is fine. In fact, the harder I use them the better they seem to get. Never had fade issues at all, even on the hardest braking tracks.

One thing I do tend to do is very gently/progressively bring them up to temps on my first laps. But I guess you do the same.

Be interested to see how you get on with xp's. Maybe it's just down to driving style, as you said. You bloody animal.;)

[shimmy]

My rs14 are lovely and I stamp on my brakes :beer:

[AlexGTT]

Laptimes ;)

Your a f*ckin' animal as well.;) But we love you for it.:smt055:hahaha:

[shane@mbtech]

Your a f*ckin' animal as well.;) But we love you for it.:smt055:hahaha:

Big hug for you at snet Alex :smt055

[shimmy]

Laptimes ;)

Did he answer about his lap times, not that times matter ;)

[AlexGTT]

Did he answer about his lap times, not that times matter ;)

:whistle:

[titan]

pff its a trackday so "no bloody timing!!"

vbox says 2.02 round oulton though. Not particularly impressive, even on road tyres, but I don't fancy binning the car as its just been finished ;-)

[shimmy]

pff its a trackday so "no bloody timing!!"

vbox says 2.02 round oulton though. Not particularly impressive, even on road tyres, but I don't fancy binning the car as its just been finished ;-)

Bet you wished you thought like that 6 months ago ;)

[shane@mbtech]

pff its a trackday so "no bloody timing!!"

vbox says 2.02 round oulton though. Not particularly impressive, even on road tyres, but I don't fancy binning the car as its just been finished ;-)

2 mins round oulton will be faster than 85-90% there on a typical day.

I ran a048's.

[titan]

If anyone has vbox traces around Oulton, send them my way :-)

A048s eh ? The daddy of the expensive tyre indeed. A tyre I have never ever tried due to their pisstaking expense in fact.

The idea behind running "crappy" hankooks was to lower the speed at which things start to get interesting to understand whats going on and learn how to control it. I found that on cup tyres you're just raising the bar, so when it does finally get interesting you're now doing 20mph more and still no idea of what to do :-)

[shane@mbtech]

If anyone has vbox traces around Oulton, send them my way :-)

A048s eh ? The daddy of the expensive tyre indeed. A tyre I have never ever tried due to their pisstaking expense in fact.

The idea behind running "crappy" hankooks was to lower the speed at which things start to get interesting to understand whats going on and learn how to control it. I found that on cup tyres you're just raising the bar, so when it does finally get interesting you're now doing 20mph more and still no idea of what to do :-)


The idea behind running crappy hankooks was they had no 888's in stock remember;),

As a benchmark, my best round Oulton on a048s was 1.56

When I bought the a048's they came in at approx £900, 888's cost just shy of that now.
Cups in the same size are 1050-1200 ish:bigcry:

[titan]

The idea behind running crappy hankooks was they had no 888's in stock remember;)

Sssh. Thats a different explanation ;-)

[funtime]

Titan, any updates on this? I may need some pad's for my Alcon's soon - it would be good to see what you thought of the Carbotech's

Also who is your supplier for the pads?

[JezP]

Titan, any updates on this? I may need some pad's for my Alcon's soon - it would be good to see what you thought of the Carbotech's

Also who is your supplier for the pads?

Give Ian a bell he knows everything you need to know :smokin:

http://www.carbotech-europe.com/

[titan]

Titan, any updates on this? I may need some pad's for my Alcon's soon - it would be good to see what you thought of the Carbotech's

Also who is your supplier for the pads?

Yup, they are as good on the CSL as they are on the evo. Towards the end of a session I'm still getting them a bit hot though.

Had a delivery last week of XP12 for the front and 10 for the rear. Reckon that'll do nicely sir.

As he said, Ian is your man :)