Non-CSL M3 - Who's owned one?

[Craig]

Just wonderd if anyone has had a manual non-CSL M3 and what were their thoughts of the car compared to the CSL? Friend wants to build a track and road car and I suggested going for an e46 M3 and then fitting some KW V3's, loosing some of the interior and fitting two decent bucket seats plus harnesses and maybe a half / full cage.

My thoughts are that a non-CSL with KW's, decent brakes, decent geometry, decent tyres and a bit less weight will give just as much fun as the CSL just without the 'sense of occasion' sound.

[shimmy]

Just wonderd if anyone has had a manual non-CSL M3 and what were their thoughts of the car compared to the CSL? Friend wants to build a track and road car and I suggested going for an e46 M3 and then fitting some KW V3's, loosing some of the interior and fitting two decent bucket seats plus harnesses and maybe a half / full cage.

My thoughts are that a non-CSL with KW's, decent brakes, decent geometry, decent tyres and a bit less weight will give just as much fun as the CSL just without the 'sense of occasion' sound.


i agree, with some moeny spent an E46 M3 would give the same performance but without the airbox!!!

[Dan]

I had one, had a Steel Grey Manual M3 Coupe with all the toys, very compatent car in all area's really, still very fast, exhaust is raspy, nice drive, handles well, good stability, brakes so so as usual on M3's but modded as a track would be a damn quick car in the right hands!

[titan]

That was my original idea. Take a stock M3 and convert it to a track toy. Sadly it met a very early demise and I so I started over again, but with a CSL. Mainly because I originally wanted a CSL but managed to get talked out of it by friends/wife.

So, whats different that is of (arguable?) worth?

Well - yes the airbox which translates to a slight uplift in power and a more responsive engine. I believe the SMG and DSC programs are slightly altered (CSL "track button"). You've a slightly different steering rack, different suspension, brakes (moot points since both probably get changed still) and the rest is really weight/styling etc

each to their own. I really like the interior of the csl and will be less inclined to rip it all out and turn it into a shitter!

You can't argue with the financial side though. I paid £13k for a 55k miles 2003 M3 which was in great condition. Same condition/mileage CSL is literally going to be double.

[DazBlackCSL]

There is a reason for that :clown:

[NZ_M3]

Best base to start with would be a M3 CS - basically a CSL missing a couple of things.

You get bonus CSL parts like the headers/extractor, brakes, steering wheel, steering rack, CSL DSC module just to name a few. It's a CSL parts bin special if you like without the CSL price tag.

However, chances are your mate will end up "CSL"ing the new track car anyway ... so maybe best just to buy a CSL in the first place (rather than longing for that sexy airbox afterwards) :smokin:

[danp]

You can't argue with the financial side though. I paid £13k for a 55k miles 2003 M3 which was in great condition. Same condition/mileage CSL is literally going to be double.

Yes but CSL's are going up in value ;-)

[Dan]

Yes but CSL's are going up in value ;-)

Are they!? I think they are still falling mate, if I'd waited until now to buy one then personally I would be a few K better off and I didn't get too bad a deal on the one I have now!

Granted they will always be more than a normal M3 obviously but I can't see it!? :whistle:

[shimmy]

Are they!? I think they are still falling mate, if I'd waited until now to buy one then personally I would be a few K better off and I didn't get too bad a deal on the one I have now!

Granted they will always be more than a normal M3 obviously but I can't see it!? :whistle:

my personal feeling is that we have hitk bottom to the CSL market and unless you have a fire damage, Cat D or 100k miles+ car it will now be appreciating (slowly)

E92M3 prices are now equalling sub 20k mile CSL prices and not showing any signs of pushung them lower (as i think they are different cars for different purposes.

anybody who is selling sub £20k is in my opinion desperate to sell

[shimmy]

Best base to start with would be a M3 CS - basically a CSL missing a couple of things.

... so maybe best just to buy a CSL in the first place (rather than longing for that sexy airbox afterwards) :smokin:

A1+ NZM3

The only real downside to turning a CSL into a track beast is that you are destroying a CSL :bigcry:

Up side is if you buy a 60K MILER for say £23k you could sell seats, interior, rims, suspension, brakes and make yourself £6k towards the mods and have to do far less to it to get weight saving etc

[Rutkowski]

CSL is a special car and more so than a collection of different car parts.

You can compare performance of a modified M3 vs M3csl but it will always be a modified M3 vs M3csl if you get my drift....

I personally did not want to buy M3csl because i knew i'd basterdise it.... i like heated seats, rear blind and a quality sound from JL.

If i retrofitted any of these to a CSL, i'd then have to drop the 'L' from the badge.

For now - i am happy modifying my standard M3. I am retrofitting the competition package - including the suspension as it is revised and different from standard M3 plus some M3csl bits.

Another reason for not getting a CSL is because i do not want to be associated with a groupe of people, despised throughout the whole of the internet.............

















..... more specifically - it's the Porsche driver's club, spreading anti - CSL propaganda........























Fck it - i'm buying M3 CSL next year.

:drool: :thumbs:

[jibm]

Are they!? I think they are still falling mate, if I'd waited until now to buy one then personally I would be a few K better off and I didn't get too bad a deal on the one I have now!

Granted they will always be more than a normal M3 obviously but I can't see it!? :whistle:

I recon prices have been stable for about a year :thumbs: and if you count in the fact that the average CSL that is used regularly has more miles on it. The have gone up in value :beer:

[DuncanR]

I really like the interior of the csl and will be less inclined to rip it all out and turn it into a shitter!


Oi !! I have feelings too you know !!! ....shitter indeed ! ;)

[Craig]

Facing facts, for a track car with TPO cover he won't be going for a CSL. Can take a £10k risk but not a £20k+ risk. Were not talking about buying a low mileage new M3, plan is an £8k 2001 car.

In my mind a standard e46 that has gone on a mild diet, fitted with KW V3's, 18" wheels with track rubber and a nice set of supporting seats should be a pretty capable car.

I just wondered if any of you guys had owned a non-CSL and could voice a true opinion.

[Dan]

I just wondered if any of you guys had owned a non-CSL and could voice a true opinion.

Yes! See my first post on this thread ;)

[DuncanR]

Best base to start with would be a M3 CS - basically a CSL missing a couple of things.

You get bonus CSL parts like the headers/extractor, brakes, steering wheel, steering rack, CSL DSC module just to name a few. It's a CSL parts bin special if you like without the CSL price tag.

However, chances are your mate will end up "CSL"ing the new track car anyway ... so maybe best just to buy a CSL in the first place (rather than longing for that sexy airbox afterwards) :smokin:

With regard to the steering rack, personally I would probably put up with an M3 one, easily available from the breakers. The CSL rack is about double the price (£950) of the std M3 one !! And regular tracking WILL see you needing one im sure.

[titan]

With regard to the steering rack, personally I would probably put up with an M3 one, easily available from the breakers. The CSL rack is about double the price (£950) of the std M3 one !! And regular tracking WILL see you needing one im sure.

How much of a job is it to swap out the rack on an M3?

Reason I ask is that "major" components like racks, clutches etc etc tends to be more about the labour costs than the item itself.

[_Nathan_]

Rack is about a grand, then I think you need to recode DSC too.

[NZ_M3]

I just wondered if any of you guys had owned a non-CSL and could voice a true opinion.

I had 2 x E46 M3s (2001 and 2003 models) and they are capable cars even compared to the CSL.

As Shimmy mentioned, if you start with a CSL or even CS you are already a step ahead in terms of ripping weight out of the car (and then there are the already mentioned bonus parts).

Given a budget however, I'd start with a standard M3 - throw enough money at it and it'll out perform a stock CSL easily.


With regard to the steering rack, personally I would probably put up with an M3 one, easily available from the breakers. The CSL rack is about double the price (£950) of the std M3 one !! And regular tracking WILL see you needing one im sure.

That's a good point.

Don't forget that the CSL has different front hubs for that wider front track - if you are swapping out the rack I'd swap the CSL front hubs also.

[Steviebee]

Yeah,

I had a CS two and a half years ago, but never tracked it.

There was an M3 on Knockhill a few weeks ago with suspension upgrade and cut slicks. I couldn't get close! It was my first time out in the CSL and tbh, I'm not a 'Track Master' - far from it :), but I would certainly say you'll most def be quicker in a car that cost so much less!

Not digging std M3's! They are great cars, but the thought of binning my CSL always makes me tread on the side of caution!

Stevie