First Track Day!

[Steviebee]

Yup,

tis has been done!

Got the car around three weeks ago and had been trying to resist taking it on track since, but it just feels SOOOO wasted going back and forth to work! ... So - booked on a for a little track action.

Not long back and still buzzing with the experience - what a car.

Its 100% std and with P-Zeros which wouldn't have been my first choice, but have to say I was quite impressed, although the rear near side is looking a tad poorly :whistle:. You just gotta love the hairpin :hahaha:

I see why the brakes are the first upgrades, they were only lasting around 6 laps or so before the pedal felt really soft and braking performance started dropping heavily. Would changing to Pagid pads help this?

Tyres are next on the hit list. I'd love to run Cups, but as they only come with 4mm, cost 1200/set and are useless if it starts to rain I think I'd rather opt for a good road tyre like MPS2. Has anyone got any other suggestions? **oh no another tyre debate!** ;p DZO2's anyone?

Built up the courage to run the car with no traction and in the 6th g/box setting. I was amazed at how much grip there is and how much better it is out of the corners. The car really does come alive!

Looking forward to doing more!

Cheers,
Stevie

[terryb]

Stevie - best recommendation I can give is to get a 2nd set of wheels with Cups for track days - they are so much better than normal road tyres on track...

[shimmy]

Stevie - best recommendation I can give is to get a 2nd set of wheels with Cups for track days - they are so much better than normal road tyres on track...

And a set if coilovers:smokin:

[AlexGTT]

Congrats Steviebee. It's fun on track but when it's dry, you won't regret getting a set of Cups. It's a whole new world of grip once you learn how to treat them and run the correct settings. And they actually come with 5mm. My suggestion would be:

Pagid pads, fluid change and hoses.
Cups.
Adjustable top mounts. You can run more suitable camber giving more grip and making your Cups last much longer. You can knock the camber out for track and back again for road.
Get it properly set up by a marque specialist.

Job done.

[Dan]

Nice one mate, I had every intention of tracking mine when I got it and glad I did, I've still not tried no DSC and S6 yet though! :gayfight: :hahaha:

Sorry if I missed it but what track did you do? :thumbs:

[Steviebee]

Congrats Steviebee. It's fun on track but when it's dry, you won't regret getting a set of Cups. It's a whole new world of grip once you learn how to treat them and run the correct settings. And they actually come with 5mm. My suggestion would be:

Pagid pads, fluid change and hoses.
Cups.
Adjustable top mounts. You can run more suitable camber giving more grip and making your Cups last much longer. You can knock the camber out for track and back again for road.
Get it properly set up by a marque specialist.

Job done.

Fantastic.

Thanks!

Good to hear that I don't need to shell out for a BBK, funds are readily available at the mo - Mrs is doing up the bottom of the house at the mo :bigcry: ... Still, good to have a nice place to live ;)

I have a set of 19s from my old CS I had a few years ago, these should do then? Will I notice the heavier wheels much ?

So, just adjustable top mounts with the std suspension and more aggressive camber on the front? I have just the man to set it up too, Kenny Brown in Hillington, he set up my Porsche and made a huge difference.

Thanks vmuch for the info - much appreciated.

[Steviebee]

Nice one mate, I had every intention of tracking mine when I got it and glad I did, I've still not tried no DSC and S6 yet though! :gayfight: :hahaha:

Sorry if I missed it but what track did you do? :thumbs:

Oh, dont get me wrong, so did I, but I thought I would have covered more than 400miles it in before hand!

If you are confident enough and know the track the car is much better with out DSC, it just bursts out the corners!

It was Knockhill :beer:

[3wheels3]

Pagid pads, fluid change and hoses.
Cups.
Adjustable top mounts. You can run more suitable camber giving more grip and making your Cups last much longer. You can knock the camber out for track and back again for road.
Get it properly set up by a marque specialist.

Job done.

+1 :thumbs: And would add RS29's for Pagid pad.

[Dan]

Oh, dont get me wrong, so did I, but I thought I would have covered more than 400miles it in before hand!

If you are confident enough and know the track the car is much better with out DSC, it just bursts out the corners!

It was Knockhill :beer:
Knockhill looks great but it's other end of the country, I'm literally on the south coast! :bigcry:

As for Pad upgrade's Stevie, I went for Pagid RS29's all round, braided hoses and upgraded fluid, they are now great on track with very little fade, lasted me fine at Spa all day earlier in the year :thumbs:

If you've not got them done either then go for new OEM RTAB bushes with limiter kit and get the geometry set up properly, mine felt like a different car after this little lot :smokin:

[Bealo]

Congrats Steviebee. It's fun on track but when it's dry, you won't regret getting a set of Cups. It's a whole new world of grip once you learn how to treat them and run the correct settings. And they actually come with 5mm. My suggestion would be:

Pagid pads, fluid change and hoses.
Cups.
Adjustable top mounts. You can run more suitable camber giving more grip and making your Cups last much longer. You can knock the camber out for track and back again for road.
Get it properly set up by a marque specialist.

Job done.

Agree with Alex... but if you can't stretch to a spare set of wheels and cups just yet stick some PS-2 on your rims and just do the rest for now.

[Steviebee]

Thanks Dan. Thats great.

How can you tell if you need RTAB ? The car feels good even under heavy load? Its done 47000miles.

Stevie

[shimmy]

Thanks Dan. Thats great.

How can you tell if you need RTAB ? The car feels good even under heavy load? Its done 47000miles.

Stevie

take a roundabout, come off it with your right foot down and if you get a feeling of the car squirming beneath you get the RTAB changed OR one spring could be broken:smokin:

[Bealo]

Congrats Steviebee. It's fun on track but when it's dry, you won't regret getting a set of Cups. It's a whole new world of grip once you learn how to treat them and run the correct settings. And they actually come with 5mm. My suggestion would be:

Pagid pads, fluid change and hoses.
Cups.
Adjustable top mounts. You can run more suitable camber giving more grip and making your Cups last much longer. You can knock the camber out for track and back again for road.
Get it properly set up by a marque specialist.

Job done.

Agree with Alex... but if you can't stretch to a spare set of wheels and cups just yet stick some PS-2 on your rims and just do the rest for now.

[Dan]

Thanks Dan. Thats great.

How can you tell if you need RTAB ? The car feels good even under heavy load? Its done 47000miles.

Stevie

As per Shimmy's post is great, my car has also just ticked over 47k, when I put the limiter kit in I changed them as a matter of course anyway, I think they were only £15 a side so just as well make sure they are nice and fresh :thumbs:

[shimmy]

Stevie

Your OEM top mounts are adjustable by 1degree (as I found out recently) however normal maximum camber on OEM occurs around 1.75-2.0 which I'd not quite enough on most track to stop inner tyre wear although on road Tyres it might take a bit longer.

[Dan]

Stevie

Your OEM top mounts are adjustable by 1degree (as I found out recently) however normal maximum camber on OEM occurs around 1.75-2.0 which I'd not quite enough on most track to stop inner tyre wear although on road Tyres it might take a bit longer.

That's sounds about right Shim as Joe at Simpsons set mine to -1.5 on the front I think :thumbs: Might get him to go to -2deg next time I'm there if possible ;)

[AlexGTT]

Yeah, I forgot to say RTAB bushes and limiter kit.

I will add that if you intend to do lots of track work you won't go far wrong fitting AP's.

[shimmy]

I think a need a CSLR sticky showing recommended road and track upgrade stages:)

[Steviebee]

I think a need a CSLR sticky showing recommended road and track upgrade stages:)

if this is a regular question may not be a bad idea.... unless you are are a polisher,,,

[AlexGTT]

if this is a regular question may not be a bad idea.... unless you are are a polisher,,,

Shim has been known to polish turds but not his cars. Trust, his CSL is properly used.;)

[shimmy]

if this is a regular question may not be a bad idea.... unless you are are a polisher,,,

Polish but not polisher

[glendog74]

Stevie - best recommendation I can give is to get a 2nd set of wheels with Cups for track days - they are so much better than normal road tyres on track...

Agreed :thumbs:


I have a set of 19s from my old CS I had a few years ago, these should do then? Will I notice the heavier wheels much ?

The CS fronts are slightly narrower than CSL wheels and on track you'll want more wheel/tyre width. You could always space them out to increase track width.

[Steviebee]

My old CS came with the bling 19s as per std M3. Can you believe mupet ordered it with them rather than the CSL style wheels?! Hence why I fitted a set of Linea Course wheels and now have the bling rims sitting in the store at the garage.

Tried to sell them for 400.00 for AGEEEESS on eBay, but there were no takers.

Think I'll have them refurbed a mad colour and have them for track wheels, only concern was that they were heavy?

[titan]

If you are buying a nice set of CSL alloys for the road, then sell the bling-a-ling M3 wheels and put the money towards...

18x9 team dynamics (black FTW) (approx £650) and stick on 265 tyres all round. Federal 595RS are a good cheaper alternative. You'll find the extra track and rubber at the front great for turn-in plus running a square setup you can switch tyres front and rear to get the most for your money.

The minimum brake spend for track is braided lines, RBF660 fluid and some decent pads (Pagid RS29). This is much better but ultimately the problem here is that heat dissipation is poorer on smaller brakes and RS29s will generate more heat than stock pads due to their stopping power. You'll be avoiding boiling the fluid for only so long...

Get the RTAB kit and if thats your budget spent then you've done a great job.

Past that its all about brakes and suspension on track cars. Don't go wasting money on APs which get so many duff customer feedbacks (rattling, warped/cracked discs) as well as good, so straight for the Alcon kit which *only* gets great reviews. 365 up front (bigger than AP) and 348 rears I think. Either buy from an Alcon place, or get the CSL Cup kit from Thorney, its the same thing.

Whack on a set of Intrax 1K2 or KW V3s and you are done.

Avoid doing anything to the engine because NA engines just can't be tuned significantly without significant spend. Plus you'll only break the thing ;-)

Past that, or along the way, a decent set of seats would be a bonus but you're now starting to interfere with a daily drive. Especially harnesses.

[Dan]

Past that its all about brakes and suspension on track cars. Don't go wasting money on APs which get so many duff customer feedbacks (rattling, warped/cracked discs) as well as good, so straight for the Alcon kit which *only* gets great reviews. 365 up front (bigger than AP) and 348 rears I think. Either buy from an Alcon place, or get the CSL Cup kit from Thorney, its the same thing.



Lee, when I asked you recently about the Alcon/CSL 'Cup' brake kit you yourself only described them as 'good', that's not the best advertising so unless you have changed your opinion on them now you've had them a little longer I cannot see any particular difference between these and AP's except price?

I was wanting them to be amazing and unrivalled as I love to look of them over AP's. however it's NEVER form over function personally ;)

[titan]

Sorry Dan, its just that I'm a glass-half-empty kinda guy ;-) And also, a lardy M3 with alcons and stock suspension isn't going to stop anything like my evo with alcons and race suspension, so its difficult to rave about a product when "you've had better", albeit on a different car.

Not having had the (mis)fortune of taking a standard brake M3 on track, I can't comment.

I make that comment based on my own experiences and what I read about APs. Over on the lancer register (evo) forums, where there are more people doing trackdays I've lost count of the number of people who have posted up with disc issues. AP have had production issues in the past...talks of new foundries etc.

On paper, if you assume the same types of pad compound, the APs use a 356mm front and 328mm rear, the alcons use a 365mm/343mm (I checked) so although bigger isn't always best, when comparing two premium brands I think its fair to argue the heat dissipation will be better on the alcon, presumably also the surface area/braking force also.

Alcon build quality is superb and their kits don't rattle around (lots of AP owners complain about noise on the floating assemblies)

I'm taking my CSL fitted with the alcon kit to snetterton on Friday, so will be able to see firsthand how they fare on a not-so-lardy M3, albeit with stock (CSL) suspension...

[Dan]

Hi Lee, cheers for the explanation, I see what you mean about the Evo!

Let's wait until you've done Snet and perhaps you can give a glass half full review? ;) :)