SUSPENSION CHOICE KW or NITRON...!!! (heeelp )

[nick///M3]

hey guys...

I am facing this problem of what suspension to use for my car..

i now am on TEIN ss coilover...yeah i know not the best but i am very satisfied so far....

Now i am looking for something better...

my choices are kw clubsport or nitron...

I am not going to the track so often but i want something good either way..

I want the car to behave like an M3 but firmer more stable...
When hitting a pothole i don't want to feel like the suspension is bottomed out...
Neither to feel the car hard, bumpy or crashy

I want a reduced body roll ( fr/r bushes , anti roll bars , struts allready on the car ) but with a superb handling...( too much to ask ha?...)

With the Clubsport i have a shop here that specializes on the KW line coilovers ( plus i found the settings from you guys on here) and proposed a set of more stiffer springs too and he is also in no question that only the clubsport can work properly in my car for what i want...


With the Nitron( sport+ or track ) i can get a pretty good price through someone i know, it is a monotube design, and seem like pretty wellmade... but it really is uncharted territory for me and for the techs here in Greece, maybe this could be overcome through your help guys...

So any input from you guys that have seen both suspensions in action is very much needed !!!

So please chime in !!!!

[glendog74]

If you want aftermarket and don't intend to track the car very often then i would plump for the KWs out of those two although i do think that you may be better going for KW V3 rather than the Clubsport?

Have you thought of trying a set of CSL OEM suspension? Certainly worthy of consideration.

[shimmy]

After 4 years of ownership in various guises my conclusion is that unless you are doing multiple trackdays and car is not a daily drive STICK TO OEM SUSPENSION.

It is far better suited to UK roads than any aftermarket suspension I have seen. Coilovers at thecrear ovviously have serious warranty issues and potential for refusal of goodwill on subframe cracking and will make the road ride slower and harsher.

I guess thus advice wil fall on deaf ears. I certainly ignored it 2 years ago.;)

If you do ignore it, try Intrax IK2

[DazBlackCSL]

Cant speak for Intrax as not experienced them, clubsports are perfect for road and track, but if your not really tracking then I would agree OEM or if you wanted the ' look ' of a slightly lower meaner CSL with OEM handling to a degree then the V3's are the right choice I would say...

Daz

[cantfind1]

I think you will find the KW's to stiff for the road including V3. Stick with oem CSL or if you must then nitron with a soft spring rate, they will tailor there suspension to what you want. Better than KW and very good quality monotube shock rather than twin tube KW.

[glendog74]

After 4 years of ownership in various guises my conclusion is that unless you are doing multiple trackdays and car is not a daily drive STICK TO OEM SUSPENSION.

It is far better suited to UK roads than any aftermarket suspension I have seen. Coilovers at thecrear ovviously have serious warranty issues and potential for refusal of goodwill on subframe cracking and will make the road ride slower and harsher.

I guess thus advice wil fall on deaf ears. I certainly ignored it 2 years ago.;)

If you do ignore it, try Intrax IK2

Nick lives in Greece Shim ;)

[AlexGTT]

I find my Intrax fine. Lots of adjustment from soft to hard and easy to adjust. Mind you, we have some very fine driving roads here in Wales. ;) That makes a difference.

If it was an every day car or if I lived in a built up area, I'd definately stick to OEM.

[cantfind1]

Nick lives in Greece Shim ;)


Greece has even worse roads!! haha:thumbs:

[shimmy]

Nick lives in Greece Shim ;)

well how the fuck was i meant to know that!:hahaha:

(I VOTE FOR COMPULSORY NATIONAL FLAGS NEXT TIO OUR NAMES)



Greece has even worse roads!! haha:thumbs:

true but great souvlaki!:smt055

[cantfind1]

yeah but hairy women! But i hear some of you guys like that??:drool:

[glendog74]

well how the fuck was i meant to know that!:hahaha:

I think this line may be the giveaway... :whistle:

but it really is uncharted territory for me and for the techs here in Greece

Chump.

[shimmy]

I think this line may be the giveaway... :whistle:



Chump.



i thought he was an illiterate mechanic!:smokin:

[Dan]

I find my Intrax fine. Lots of adjustment from soft to hard and easy to adjust. Mind you, we have some very fine driving roads here in Wales. ;) That makes a difference.

If it was an every day car or if I lived in a built up area, I'd definately stick to OEM.

What strengthening method did you go for on the rear turret's Alex?

[Dan]

i thought he was an illiterate mechanic!:smokin:

You got done there Shim and you know it! :thumbs: :bigcry: :bigcry: ;)

[AlexGTT]

What strengthening method did you go for on the rear turret's Alex?

I have additional plates on the turrets as a temporary measure. Julian at Simpson's is making a proper solution for me. I may develop that into a half cage this Winter, along with some sub-frame strengthening measures. Mine has no signs of the dreaded cracks yet but I thought it better to be pro-active in this area.

[Dan]

I have additional plates on the turrets as a temporary measure. Julian at Simpson's is making a proper solution for me. I may develop that into a half cage this Winter, along with some sub-frame strengthening measures. Mine has no signs of the dreaded cracks yet but I thought it better to be pro-active in this area.

I think I'll be doing the same if and when the time comes mate, mine (touch wood!) at the moment is solid as a rock and clean as a whistle underneath, I'm very very tempted on the KW's but would really like Simpson's to be able to set them up!

[nick///M3]

ok ok...

first of all......

WE DO NOT HAVE HAIRY WOMEN IN GREECE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!hahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!
ever been in Greek islands in summer time?...
well if you don't...... to bad for you guys !!!!!!!:thumbs:
oh and yeah "souvlaki" does kick ass...!!!!



as far as the susp goes...my mistake that i did not point my location...
Greece - Athens = F@cked up roads....

BUT i have driven on stock suspension and frankly did not like it...
i have driven a couple of csl's too...waaay better but still not quite...

Ever driven a GT3 997 guys?
that's the best combo...the car is firm, planted, but you don't hear anything, don't feel like sh!t when going over potholes or train rails....
yet it is so much stable...

Now the tech here says that with the clubsport i will have the same result....
A friend with the nitron - track, said the same....

WHAT THE HECK TO DO !?!?!?!?!?!??!!

i don't track the car but i really really want something good when on the track or on journeys ( in which i tend to kick the car's @ss...)


SO????

any more info on the road behavior?

how about Nitron sport+ ?

i now am running -2 fr/r camber and love it so i want the camber plates....

i would love intrax but more expensive, no one to dial it in, coilover in the back...

At this point the clubsport seems to be in the lead...

I am about to spend 2,5k more on this car which i have already spend more than enough...

sorry to be so annoying but i am depending on your knowledge....:beer:


p.s. visit greece in the summer :whistle::whistle:

[glendog74]

KW Clubsport it is then!

[DuncanR]

p.s. visit greece in the summer :whistle::whistle:
Cheers Nick ...very kind can I have the last week in July and first in August ?? ... :hahaha:

Good luck with your problemo mate !

[nick///M3]

Cheers Nick ...very kind can I have the last week in July and first in August ?? ... :hahaha:

Good luck with your problemo mate !

just tell me when mate!!!!!!:thumbs:

come on give me a hand here!!!!

[double_r]

Nick, you may want to take a look at ASTs as well. They're a monotube shock. Works very well at the track, which is what I primarily use it for, but also stock like comfort for street use.

[DuncanR]

Nick, you may want to take a look at ASTs as well. They're a monotube shock. Works very well at the track, which is what I primarily use it for, but also stock like comfort for street use.

This will give Nick a headache ... 3 options ! ..... Intrax for me here :thumbs:

[karbonkid]

I run Nitrons & IMO work great on track. Makes damping adjustment a doddle being in the engine bay. Not having to lay on your back & crawl under the car with a wee allen key or similar is a big plus. Little hard on road as I have uprated springs, but all the better for what the car is used for. PM moi if you need any more details, I can put you in touch with someone if wanting to go that route. Good Luck. :thumbs:

[nick///M3]

i was thinking about AST as well but changed my mind for the same reasons plus the fact that some guys had some fitting problems so....

where can i find a quote for the intrax suspension???

it seems to be very popular here....!!!

come on guys!!!

keep em coming!!!

cheers!!!

[AlexGTT]

i was thinking about AST as well but changed my mind for the same reasons plus the fact that some guys had some fitting problems so....

where can i find a quote for the intrax suspension???

it seems to be very popular here....!!!

come on guys!!!

keep em coming!!!

cheers!!!

Try Simpson Motorsport for Intrax. They now it inside out.;)

[double_r]

Moton has a streetsport kit and I think JRZ does as well.

[alexk]

I am not going to the track so often but i want something good either way..

I want the car to behave like an M3 but firmer more stable...
When hitting a pothole i don't want to feel like the suspension is bottomed out...
Neither to feel the car hard, bumpy or crashy


So basically you don't want the car to be hard neither you want a track oriented setup.
Road and track suspension kits tend to be a bit hard for road use.
Also take into account that your car is significantly heavier than a CSL and the suspension that works well in a CSL won't work in your M3.

[mattCSLnut]

So basically you don't want the car to be hard neither you want a track oriented setup.
Road and track suspension kits tend to be a bit hard for road use.
Also take into account that your car is significantly heavier than a CSL and the suspension that works well in a CSL won't work in your M3.


Could this be the solution ?

[nick///M3]

So basically you don't want the car to be hard neither you want a track oriented setup.
Road and track suspension kits tend to be a bit hard for road use.
Also take into account that your car is significantly heavier than a CSL and the suspension that works well in a CSL won't work in your M3.

one thing for the suspension is to be stiff and firm and it is another thing for the suspension to give you the idea of constantly bottoming out and be harsh on its reactions and only performing good on flat roads or the track...if you go over a road anomaly or a potholr with a GOOD suspension to absorb the beating right is it going to be the same thing with a so n so susp? no!

i did not ask a velvet carpet to put my car on it....

i asked opinions based on experience for 2-3 specific set up's that have my attention... and the people here have this experience...

some more input and i think i am convinced...

my car weights at 1490kg with 1/2 tank of gas in it...
i think it's quite good and there is some more to be saved in the very near future...around 40kg more with my poor estimates...


Could this be the solution ?

sorry did not understand the pic..care to be more clear?

[alexk]

one thing for the suspension is to be stiff and firm and it is another thing for the suspension to give you the idea of constantly bottoming out and be harsh on its reactions and only performing good on flat roads or the track...if you go over a road anomaly or a potholr with a GOOD suspension to absorb the beating right is it going to be the same thing with a so n so susp? no!


This is what is happening 99% of the time when someone puts a 'race' suspension to use it on the road.
It is better in one area, and worse in another 9 areas.
That's exactly why shimmy said earlier that the OEM suspension is the best thing for the road.
That's also the reason why I personally didn't change my suspension. Most of my kilometers are on the road (Swiss road which is better quality than many racetracks).

Also, my opinion is that if someone doesn't understand what the car is doing, it's better to stay away from adjustable suspension. You don't need any suspension wizards to tune the suspension if you understand what the car is doing and what you need to change.
Now don't get me wrong about this, that I am saying something between the lines. Quite the opposite, I am saying this in general because I have seen many guys with a super-duper suspension and have no clue about suspension settings/behavior whatsoever.

Last but not least, I will be able to provide some feedback next year about my favourite Ohlins suspension :whistle:

[mattCSLnut]

my car weights at 1490kg with 1/2 tank of gas in it...
i think it's quite good and there is some more to be saved in the very near future...around 40kg more with my poor estimates...

sorry did not understand the pic..care to be more clear?
Just a little joke ;) :hahaha: nothing serious.
What I'm not sure about though is how you're getting your regular "PHAT" M3 down to these weights :smt017 when a GENUINE M3 CSL (without any options, so: no A/C, no CD player, no Xenons or PDC or even Comfort screen) is 1460 kg with 90% fuel, 68 kg driver and 7kg luggage... or 75 kg driver without luggage :whistle:

[titan]

Different car (evo), but I did the "what suspension?" thing to death this year. Looked (hard) at Nitron, KW, Exe-tc, Ohlins etc. In the end I went for KW competition 3-way (pricey!)

Now I'm about to do the suspension on my CSL.

What I can tell you that I've learnt along the way...

1. Unless you are a suspension guru, stick to a single adjuster setup !
2. Ideally, top-adjusters are best to save scrabbling around underneath the car
3. Consider carefully the after-sales service you will get. If you need advice on fitting/setup, is your supplier available on the phone and speaks the same language (the real KW setup guy is German, has good english but its not the same...) Also when it comes to needing them serviced/repaired, how easy/costly is that going to be?
4. If you've an off-the-shelf kinda car, buy an off-the-shelf package :)
5. Choose a vendor with a proven experience in your car, not just x years in the suspension industry - all cars are different.


For what its worth, for my CSL I'm going with intrax 1k2 from simpson. My next choice would have been KW Clubsports. If KW had a decent (fitting/setup) outfit in the UK I might have gone for them, but their UK arm is just a box-shift job.

HTH !

cheers
Lee.

[mattCSLnut]

Last but not least, I will be able to provide some feedback next year about my favourite Ohlins suspension :whistle:

Me too, hopefully :whistle:
BTW didn't the LOADED CSL run Ohlins suspension ? :smt017

[nick///M3]

Me too, hopefully :whistle:
BTW didn't the LOADED CSL run Ohlins suspension ? :smt017

first i think i was on kw's and later on some very special bilstein's....at least that was the info on their website..

lighter engine componets
full exhaust
wheels
brakes
seats
the number came up on the scale where the car was corner balanced.

still to go is the roof 28kg's and the back of the rear seat 11kg's...

can't get rid of the insulation or the windows...

and the number for the csl that you gave me is with a driver...( if you can a 68kg a driver!!!:hahaha: )

sorry did not "catch" the joke...

[alexk]

Me too, hopefully :whistle:
BTW didn't the LOADED CSL run Ohlins suspension ? :smt017

Yes, the racing one...

[alexk]

Just a little joke ;) :hahaha: nothing serious.
What I'm not sure about though is how you're getting your regular "PHAT" M3 down to these weights :smt017 when a GENUINE M3 CSL (without any options, so: no A/C, no CD player, no Xenons or PDC or even Comfort screen) is 1460 kg with 90% fuel, 68 kg driver and 7kg luggage... or 75 kg driver without luggage :whistle:

It's not 1460kg, it's 1385kg with driver and luggage.
Hypothetically, 'mine' should be 1300 with full tank (without me inside) at this moment.

Where is the Gorilla when you need him ?
Do you have any 'real' figures ?

[nick///M3]

This is what is happening 99% of the time when someone puts a 'race' suspension to use it on the road.
It is better in one area, and worse in another 9 areas.
That's exactly why shimmy said earlier that the OEM suspension is the best thing for the road.
That's also the reason why I personally didn't change my suspension. Most of my kilometers are on the road (Swiss road which is better quality than many racetracks).

Also, my opinion is that if someone doesn't understand what the car is doing, it's better to stay away from adjustable suspension. You don't need any suspension wizards to tune the suspension if you understand what the car is doing and what you need to change.
Now don't get me wrong about this, that I am saying something between the lines. Quite the opposite, I am saying this in general because I have seen many guys with a super-duper suspension and have no clue about suspension settings/behavior whatsoever.

Last but not least, I will be able to provide some feedback next year about my favourite Ohlins suspension :whistle:

is the clubsport, Nitron sport+ , 1K2 "race" suspensions???? i don't think so..maybe i am wrong but please explain better on this...

i did not ask for someone to give the settings on the plate here...
i ask to make a comment on the behavior of the suspensions on the road based on their experience....

depending on the car's behavior from it's understeer or oversteer how the wheel's come of the line how it does handles bumps and yaps i would go and set it at my personal preference...

I need feedback of how the chassis behaves with the suspension and how everybody who uses a kit of them is feeling the car....

I said i don't want it to be harsh and feel crashy and gives the bottomed out feeling all the time ...i want it to feel hard, stiff, firm, almost noise-less...i am talking about ride quality...

i am not thinking moton ohlins intrax. too much for my needs and possibly will never have the "pleasure" to properly use them

i want a step up from what i currently have on the car.a step up from medium range coils.i would like single adjustable but the most i would go is clubsport....

I wish you go for the ohlins kit. you used to drool over them a long time ago when you were still in Athens.

[_Nathan_]

Mine with 2/3 tank fuel, aircon and stereo on Intrax which is lighter than normal suspension was 1420kg with no driver. 1385 with driver and luggage is in the realms of fantasy I'm afriad.

[mattCSLnut]

It's not 1460kg, it's 1385kg with driver and luggage.
Hypothetically, 'mine' should be 1300 with full tank (without me inside) at this moment.

Where is the Gorilla when you need him ?
Do you have any 'real' figures ?

I guess the official BMW M3 CSL brochure is WRONG then :smt017 as is the supplementary Owner's Handbook for the BMW M3 CSL, where it says, and I quote:

Weights

Kerb weight, ready for road, with 75 kg (165 lb) load, 90% fuel level, excluding optional extras ....... kg (lb) 1460 (3219) :whistle:

Where are you getting your numbers from mate ?
Picture of the 'real' figures below :whistle:

[shimmy]

:thumbs:

[shimmy]

It's not 1460kg, it's 1385kg with driver and luggage.
Hypothetically, 'mine' should be 1300 with full tank (without me inside) at this moment.


1385 Inc driver and luggage :hahaha:

[glendog74]

Mine with 2/3 tank fuel, aircon and stereo on Intrax which is lighter than normal suspension was 1420kg with no driver. 1385 with driver and luggage is in the realms of fantasy I'm afriad.

My CSL was 1405kg on the scales at Simpson in full fat configuration (all options & rear seats fitted). It had 1/2 tank fuel iirc.

alexk - do you now weigh only 30kg? :hahaha:

[AlexGTT]

Mine as set up by Simpson's:

Xexon headlamps, A/C, Business radio/CD,
AP's, SS BB & centre section, Intrax.
3/4 tank of fuel
No driver
1394kg's

Before mods mine was 1425kg's with similar fuel load, no driver.

Out of interest, my previous well specified E46 M3 with SMG was 1592kg's with similar fuel load, no driver.

[AlexGTT]

Both times the CSL was on the scales with my small tool kit in the boot, so you could probably take at least 5kg's off those weights.

[mattCSLnut]

My CSL was 1405kg on the scales at Simpson in full fat configuration (all options & rear seats fitted). It had 1/2 tank fuel iirc.
:


I think your biggest weight savers on your CSL Rob are the SS middle & Light weight RACE back box. 15-20 kg saved right there over O.E. :thumbs: and possibly the KW suspension with lighter springs & shocks, so probably another 10 kg saved there, over O.E. :beer:
At a guess, the A/C system probably ads about 25 kg to the "No Options" 1460 kg CSL ... the Xenons no more then 5 kg, the Comfort screen no more then 1-2 kg, the PDC no more then 2 kg and the Stereo with speakers probably around 5 kg. Anyone know the exact ' real ' kg figures for all the above ?

[AlexGTT]

I'd say AP's save 1 or 2 kg's per corner as well. Very useful as un-sprung weight.

[shimmy]

the lowest i got my car to for Spa was 1334kg without driver and low on fluids (car, not me)

[mattCSLnut]

I'd say AP's save 1 or 2 kg's per corner as well. Very useful as un-sprung weight.

Very true :smt045 I knew I forgo something ;)

[DazBlackCSL]

Lee

Few Questions in response to your post ?

Where did you get hold of the 3 - Way KW kit ? These are NOT off the shelf and are full race kits so need a proper set up, i.e KW wont sell you one unless:
1. You already know what your doing ( race team etc )
2. Or have advised you as to where to take it to get it set up correctly

So I assume you brought this kit directly from a dealer, who should of done it ?

I assume the german KW dude you were referring too is Mitch ?

Who did you speak to if at all re set up of the kit ?

I can highly recommend AMD in Essex who set up my Non standard Clubsport Kit, this kit was hand built in the factory with some 3-way race kit parts and springs, and needed a proper set up which AMD did. ( They race in the BTCC on KW's currently )

I tweaked about with the spring rates and had Raeder Motorsport next to the ring do a bit of fettling and yes it took me a while to get it perfect and how I wanted it, but now it's perfect.

The other place that know and understands KW is ThorneyMS , now they dont use KW anymore but the knowledge in the kits and cars doesn't evaporate just because they dont stock it anymore, they raced on and sold KW 's for years, and highly recommended them at the time, as they did when I wanted a kit, and did my original set up on first kit which was a V3 ( to be honest probably the best kit for me needs ) and it was an awesome set up that TMS did, so there is two that I know off that fully understand KW in the UK already :whistle:


Different car (evo), but I did the "what suspension?" thing to death this year. Looked (hard) at Nitron, KW, Exe-tc, Ohlins etc. In the end I went for KW competition 3-way (pricey!)

Now I'm about to do the suspension on my CSL.

What I can tell you that I've learnt along the way...

1. Unless you are a suspension guru, stick to a single adjuster setup !
2. Ideally, top-adjusters are best to save scrabbling around underneath the car
3. Consider carefully the after-sales service you will get. If you need advice on fitting/setup, is your supplier available on the phone and speaks the same language (the real KW setup guy is German, has good english but its not the same...) Also when it comes to needing them serviced/repaired, how easy/costly is that going to be?
4. If you've an off-the-shelf kinda car, buy an off-the-shelf package :)
5. Choose a vendor with a proven experience in your car, not just x years in the suspension industry - all cars are different.


For what its worth, for my CSL I'm going with intrax 1k2 from simpson. My next choice would have been KW Clubsports. If KW had a decent (fitting/setup) outfit in the UK I might have gone for them, but their UK arm is just a box-shift job.

HTH !

cheers
Lee.

[_Nathan_]

Aircon is circa 12-15kg, Xenons 4kg I believe.

[nick///M3]

ehm....sorry guys

any more input on the suspensions????

come on...i know you got lighter cars....:thumbs:

i wanna hear some more pleaaaase!!!!!:beer:

[shimmy]

OEM

its not want you want to hear but its the truth:thumbs:

[Curly]

ehm....sorry guys

any more input on the suspensions????

come on...i know you got lighter cars....:thumbs:

i wanna hear some more pleaaaase!!!!!:beer:
Sorry I cant help I have got a Cayman 1435 kilos stock with half a tank of juice :smokin:

[mattCSLnut]

Sorry I cant help I have got a Cayman 1435 kilos stock with half a tank of juice :smokin:
Yeah sure, but what about if it had 90% fuel and you in it ? :whistle:

[AlexGTT]

Sorry I cant help I have got a Cayman 1435 kilos stock with half a tank of juice :smokin:

It's also fully loaded with ICE and the latest disco tunes.:smokin:;)

[nick///M3]

Sorry I cant help I have got a Cayman 1435 kilos stock with half a tank of juice :smokin:

aahhh hate you for your weight...but in a straight line...sorry....!!!!:thumbs:

[nick///M3]

OEM

its not want you want to hear but its the truth:thumbs:

really its not...hahahaha!!!

waiting reply for simpson motorsport also.....!!!
is the coilover in the rear that much problem???

i asked for the second choice - trackday....:whistle:

[alexk]

is the coilover in the rear that much problem???


Nope, unless you have a cage in the car :hahaha:


Guys, your scales are out of order !
I need to take the car to Sportec to weight it, in a proper Swiss scale.

[Rutkowski]

Nick - have you considered Bilstein PSS10 at all? It's a really good compromise between track and a fast B road. :thumbs: PSS10 is Perfect for a fast B road really.

[shimmy]

really its not...hahahaha!!!

waiting reply for simpson motorsport also.....!!!
is the coilover in the rear that much problem???

i asked for the second choice - trackday....:whistle:

Rear coilovers can crack the rear turret metal work. Choices are;

1. Cage linking turrets
2. Rear strutt brace (solid pref)
3. BMW Z3 reinforcement plates
4. Welded thickening plates.

Even though item 4 is a good option you've got to think 'what happens if you need to take the car to BMW for subframe/floor cracks so I woul rule it out. Solution needs to be reversible.

I used 2 & 3 together. A few guys gave had bad turret cracking.

[s.mac]

AST non rear coil over is working well for me, but if it's not for track OEM can't be faulted

[Dan]

What benefit's does the KW Clubsport/Intrax 1K2 etc kit actually give over OEM suspension?

Is it just a case that body roll is reduced or can you genuinely feel the improved bump/rebound etc in the kit/strut?

[shimmy]

What benefit's does the KW Clubsport/Intrax 1K2 etc kit actually give over OEM suspension?

Is it just a case that body roll is reduced or can you genuinely feel the improved bump/rebound etc in the kit/strut?

Dan

Depends where you are driving and what geo one is running

My guess thru trying both I'd that on A& B roads in UK the OEM will give you a better ride, better grip.

Face facts in that BMW built the suspension to run the ring as fast as possible. I personally doubt on road Tyres and geo a/m suspension will be any better.

[Curly]

Yeah sure, but what about if it had 90% fuel and you in it ? :whistle:

Well matt i would say with a full tank and me 1545kgs carn't be certain till i get down to ikea and get new scales;)

[titan]

Where did you get hold of the 3 - Way KW kit ?

custom built by KW in germany and shipped to me...

I assume the german KW dude you were referring too is Mitch ?

Michael Grassl.

I can highly recommend AMD in Essex

Cheers, might give them a try. Yes, Raeder Motorsport got a look in too :-)

You mention AMD and Thorney, but are we talking M3/CSL here ?

Essentially my evo is akin to a prototype with regards the amount of knowledge out there. Custom this and custom that, nothing with a mitsi badge on it anymore.....

http://www.projectevo.co.uk/gallery2/d/673-2/DNA_2026.jpg

The kit was built to a spec designed by Michael taking into account overall weight, front/rear split, tyre sizes and compound, intended use etc.

Interestingly their recommended settings are damn good. From that point if I soften it up I lose high speed stability and stiffening it reduces traction. Textbook stuff.

Certain tuners/companies know certain cars. Nitron are massive in lotus circles, not so much on evo...KW were one of the few who have actually had experience of racing the damn things :-)

Comp 3-ways are not for the wallet conscious though !

[titan]

Face facts in that BMW built the suspension to run the ring as fast as possible. I personally doubt on road Tyres and geo a/m suspension will be any better.

I'd like to disagree with that statement please :-)

Car manufacturers face an almost impossible task with regards to the performance aspect. They have to consider a great many factors that aftermarket do not.

1. Will these uprated parts last ie avoid warranty issues...
2. Parts have to be put through various approval processes for domestic market (check a lot of aftermarket parts, they mention track or off-road, not street legal necessarily...)
3. Parts need to be made in reasonable quantity and speed. Hand-assembled might not be the way forwards and costs need to be kept down.
4. Parts need to be put through stringent testing for safety purposes etc
5. Parts need to be designed for minimal maintenance and quite possibly some neglect.

When you buy a suspension kit aimed at track use you don't get much of a warranty to be honest. If a coilover broke and you lost your car into the armco good luck pursuing that claim. If your coilovers need rebuilding every 2 years, that goes with the territory. Expect to have to keep them far cleaner than a daily shitter etc.

All I'm saying is that in general it is a mission for oem to produce something that is totally focussed, its always a compromise.

I have an internal training document for the Porsche GT2 RS. When you read through some of the stuff they do on these cars, you look at the build quality and attention to detail its just amazing. End result, sell a lung to buy one. You're not buying £165 of tin, you're contributing £100k+ to the entire R&D project that got you there.

[Thorney]

We now only use Moton on all our cars, CSL Cup, E92 GT3, Gallardo. We offer Nitron as well on the Csl as a cheaper alternative. Whilst there is an element of sponsorship from Moton on the race cars we pay for all of it. We've not needed to rebuild any Moton shock in three years.

[shimmy]

I'd like to disagree with that statement please :-)


Which bit are you disagreeing with? You see to be talking about something else!

On a proper track on a road car a/m suspension has a little scope for improving speed BUT on the Ring I stand by my statement OEM suspension will be as good.

I've not seen anybody beat the official 7m50 full lap time of a CSL which wa set on OEM

[glendog74]

I've not seen anybody beat the official 7m50 full lap time of a CSL which wa set on OEM

Coz were not professional race drivers who drive the Ring for a living :bigcry:

[mattCSLnut]

On a proper track on a road car a/m suspension has a little scope for improving speed BUT on the Ring I stand by my statement OEM suspension will be as good.

I've not seen anybody beat the official 7m50 full lap time of a CSL which wa set on OEM

I'm with Shimmy on this one :smt023 ... even a well used O.E.M. CSL suspension works a treat around the Green Hell (aka The Ring) :whistle: ... not too cleaver around Spa though :bigcry:

[mattCSLnut]

Coz were not professional race drivers who drive the Ring for a living :bigcry:
... in somebody else's cars :thumbs: plus we never get an empty RING to ourselves :bigcry: as much as we'd like to ;) :hahaha:

[glendog74]

WHORE! :hahaha:

[mattCSLnut]

WHORE! :hahaha:
:smt003 I THANK You Sir :blalalala:

[nick///M3]

i haven't decided yet....

but the thing is, if the stock is so damn good why do people go on to change their suspensions?

doesn't a proper a/m suspension gives better handling and more firm ride than stock ?

a several thousand suspension offers what exactly?

besides talking away the 4wheel drive look ( bling matters for something..) what else is there??

[mattCSLnut]

i haven't decided yet....

but the thing is, if the stock is so damn good why do people go on to change their suspensions?

doesn't a proper a/m suspension gives better handling and more firm ride than stock ?

a several thousand suspension offers what exactly?

besides talking away the 4wheel drive look ( bling matters for something..) what else is there??

It's called "wear & tear" :banghead: BMW Warranty only covers suspension parts up to 60 000 miles / 100 000 kms ... after that it's "BMW Good Will" but that rarely goes through on suspension components these days :bigcry:
The cost of replacement O.E. CSL suspension is almost the same as a decent after market suspension kits so most owners go for a/m suspension kits as it offers better adjustibility + in some cases the a/m kits can be rebuild after a few years use, unlike the O.E. stuff that just gets bind :smt087
BTW the O.E. CSL suspension is quite firm as standard, even with a few miles/kilometres on them :thumbs: and lower doesn't automatically mean better :whistle:

[nick///M3]

It's called "wear & tear" :banghead: BMW Warranty only covers suspension parts up to 60 000 miles / 100 000 kms ... after that it's "BMW Good Will" but that rarely goes through on suspension components these days :bigcry:
The cost of replacement O.E. CSL suspension is almost the same as a decent after market suspension kits so most owners go for a/m suspension kits as it offers better adjustibility + in some cases the a/m kits can be rebuild after a few years use, unlike the O.E. stuff that just gets bind :smt087
BTW the O.E. CSL suspension is quite firm as standard, even with a few miles/kilometres on them :whistle:

looking to sell something mate????:hahaha:

i am so darn confused here....

first the club-sport
then the Nitron sport+
now the moton 1 way ....( keep reading reviews from people in the us how awesome this kit is and how well it drives and handle!!!!! )

Jesus Christ !!!!!!!!!!!!!:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghe ad::banghead:

and the thing is that everybody has different opinions on what someone should get....

the more i read and try to compare the kits, the more confused i get....

and the money are quite a bit too....
i am going to spend another 2k++ for a new suspension and don't want to get something i won't like at the end....

[shimmy]

i haven't decided yet....

but the thing is, if the stock is so damn good why do people go on to change their suspensions?

?

because they can!:smokin:

of course there are benefits from a/m suspension, best of all is the amount of tyre wear it saves you on fast tracks by preventing the body roll onto the tyre edges

but of your aim is mainly to do the Ring i personally dont think there will be any improvement on a CSL. probabaly the opposite (Rob seems to be getting slower :whistle:)

[mattCSLnut]

i am so darn confused here....

first the club-sport
then the Nitron sport+
now the moton 1 way ....( keep reading reviews from people in the U.S. how awesome this kit is and how well it drives and handle!!!!! )

Jesus Christ !!!!!!!!!!!!!:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghe ad::banghead:




You're getting handling advice form the U.S. Guys ??? :hahaha: :hahaha: :hahaha: No wonder you're confused :hahaha: :hahaha: :hahaha:

[nick///M3]

because they can!:smokin:

of course there are benefits from a/m suspension, best of all is the amount of tyre wear it saves you on fast tracks by preventing the body roll onto the tyre edges

but of your aim is mainly to do the Ring i personally don't think there will be any improvement on a CSL. probably the opposite (Rob seems to be getting slower :whistle:)

yet you got your self an intrax if i remember right?

you said i am going to ignore your advice on the stock suspension ( which i am trying to do ) but the car is no csl...
i don't know if the csl suspension is going to work properly with almost 80-100kg more weight to transfer....

[shimmy]

You're getting handling advice form the U.S. Guys ??? :hahaha: :hahaha: :hahaha: No wonder you're confused :hahaha: :hahaha: :hahaha:

there si abosolutley no doubt in my mind that OEM CSL suspension is the best road option BY FAR. Then again the M3 suspension is probabaly better than that on road :smokin:

[nick///M3]

You're getting handling advice form the U.S. Guys ??? :hahaha: :hahaha: :hahaha: No wonder you're confused :hahaha: :hahaha: :hahaha:

hahahaahahaha:hahaha::hahaha::hahaha:

so give me advice !!!!:thumbs:

Moton?
Nitron?
KW ?

[shimmy]

i now am on TEIN ss coilover...yeah i know not the best but i am very satisfied so far....


I am not going to the track so often but i want something good either way..

I want the car to behave like an M3 but firmer more stable...
When hitting a pothole i don't want to feel like the suspension is bottomed out...
Neither to feel the car hard, bumpy or crashy

I want a reduced body roll ( fr/r bushes , anti roll bars , struts allready on the car ) but with a superb handling...( too much to ask ha?...)





hahahaahahaha:hahaha::hahaha::hahaha:

so give me advice !!!!:thumbs:

Moton?
Nitron?
KW ?

You just want your car to look MAX POWER dont you Nick!!!

From what you say above you will not be hapy with any nof the choices. I suggest you stick with your Tein stuff or go OEM:smokin:

But you wont listen :supz:

[mattCSLnut]

hahahaahahaha:hahaha::hahaha::hahaha:

so give me advice !!!!:thumbs:

Moton?
Nitron?
KW ?

I'm no expert on what's best for others :smt102 but I did just purchase the Bilstein PSS10 for my CSL as I've always got on well with "Bilstein" products on my other cars, over the years @ the Ring and fancied this kit for a while :thumbs: especially as it's also "proven & tested" @ the Nurburgring's Nordschleif, where I clock up most of my CSLs TD miles :whistle:
It was a " No brainer " when it popped up For Sale on here, few days ago :whistle: http://www.cslregister.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5498&highlight=Bilstein+PSS10&page=3

[nick///M3]

You just want your car to look MAX POWER dont you Nick!!!

From what you say above you will not be hapy with any nof the choices. I suggest you stick with your Tein stuff or go OEM:smokin:

But you wont listen :supz:

nope i most certainly don't !!
i said i want something better

i wouldn't go ahead and plan to spend some serious money ( for me at least 2-2,5k is something big ) on suspension if i was still ok with what the tein offers...

simply i am not satisfied any more....

and i don't believe that the 2-3 kits i am thinking are worse than what i currently have on....

as for the oem getting a new csl suspension is close to 1,3-1,5k cause i need everything ( top mounts, rear mounts, bump stops etc ) and i am not sure that it would work well on the car....its not a csl....:banghead:

i simply want something that rides well is firm don't feel "crashy" and can see track time easily...

and to give me the possibility to lower the car 1-1,5cm is a bonus...

[nick///M3]

I'm no expert on what's best for others :smt102 but I did just purchase the Bilstein PSS10 for my CSL as I've always got on well with "Bilstein" products on my other cars, over the years @ the Ring and fancied this kit for a while :thumbs: especially as it's also "proven & tested" @ the Nurburgring's Nordschleif, where I clock up most of my CSLs TD miles :whistle:
It was a " No brainer " when it popped up For Sale on here, few days ago :whistle: http://www.cslregister.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5498&highlight=Bilstein+PSS10&page=3

did not consider the bilstein at all cause i had some very bad experience with pss9 in the past when a shock broke in the middle of a turn....

i have my mind set on the 2-3 kit's that i told you above...

[mattCSLnut]

did not consider the bilstein at all cause i had some very bad experience with pss9 in the past when a shock broke in the middle of a turn....
ou above...

Was that before or after you hit a pot hole ? ;) :hahaha: :whistle:
Just because you had problems with the PSS9 doesn't mean they are all like that + the PSS10 is an improvement over PSS9 and they are fully adjustable. I've once heard of Intrax front shock snapping in a half @ the Ring :119: but again it doesn't mean that all others on here with Intrax are going to have this problem, well at least no one else (thankfully) has reported this :whistle:

[DazBlackCSL]

Was that before or after you hit a pot hole ? ;) :hahaha: :whistle:
Just because you had problems with the PSS9 doesn't mean they are all like that + the PSS10 is an improvement over PSS9 and they are fully adjustable. I've once heard of Intrax front shock snapping in a half @ the Ring :119: but again it doesn't mean that all others on here with Intrax are going to have this problem, well at least no one else (thankfully) has reported this :whistle:

Apart from curly in race 1 in front on me last year's CSL cup race at brands :hahaha:

[alexk]

You just want your car to look MAX POWER dont you Nick!!!

From what you say above you will not be hapy with any nof the choices. I suggest you stick with your Tein stuff or go OEM:smokin:

But you wont listen :supz:

+1
OEM for the road will be the best option

Unless you can wait till next spring that I will have a set of ohlins R&T in my hands :whistle:

[nick///M3]

+1
OEM for the road will be the best option

Unless you can wait till next spring that I will have a set of ohlins R&T in my hands :whistle:

Alex even if i wait i won't bring my self to justify so much cost for suspension or so complex....

do they even offer one for the E46?
you may know better on this but i have searched and nothing...

i can't run the oem csl...
i have been talking with some friends here and said the same thing.."run the oem csl !!!!! " but after a phone call this afternoon my thoughts of it not working well, were accurate from another guy running csl suspension on normal M3...not quite as good as it really is on the csl...the f@cking weight is "killing" me in all sorts of things.....

should of have gotten that csl in the first place....:banghead::banghead:

[alexk]

Alex even if i wait i won't bring my self to justify so much cost for suspension or so complex....

do they even offer one for the E46?
you may know better on this but i have searched and nothing...

i can't run the oem csl...
i have been talking with some friends here and said the same thing.."run the oem csl !!!!! " but after a phone call this afternoon my thoughts of it not working well, were accurate from another guy running csl suspension on normal M3...not quite as good as it really is on the csl...the f@cking weight is "killing" me in all sorts of things.....

should of have gotten that csl in the first place....:banghead::banghead:


They were making racing version (which is not what you want) @ approximately 1500 euros per shock.
But, they will produce next year a road + track version (something similar to KW V3)...
I will fit one in my car to help them test the suspension :drool:

OEM :

I don't believe that 100 kilos will make such a big difference.
100 kilos is the weight of a well-fed passenger.
I haven't noticed a problem in my car when I have an extra passenger.

[nick///M3]

They were making racing version (which is not what you want) @ approximately 1500 euros per shock.
But, they will produce next year a road + track version (something similar to KW V3)...
I will fit one in my car to help them test the suspension :drool:

OEM :

I don't believe that 100 kilos will make such a big difference.
100 kilos is the weight of a well-fed passenger.
I haven't noticed a problem in my car when I have an extra passenger.

what???
are they making a kit similar to the one that they made for the new evoX????????????
are you serious on this ??????:smt055:smt055

when is this coming out???????

i was looking at it few weeks back and cursing that they are making these for the Golf Gti, the miata, the swift!!!! and not for the M3 !!!!!!!!! come on !!!!!

as it is with the most performance related things 100kg is a big issue on the suspension.....so i am told anyway

i am looking more more to moton's now( quality, ride comfort, track capability )....been talking to thorney about my "issue"....


BUT if OHLINS is going to put it on sale any time soon then......:thumbs:

[alexk]

That's what I said, they will produce one (http://www.roadandtrackbyohlins.com/en/)

I spoke with the product manager of öhlins R&T and when they have the first kits I will put one in my car for testing (to help them with the R&D).

[Curly]

Apart from curly in race 1 in front on me last year's CSL cup race at brands :hahaha:

Do you have to keep reminding me:banghead: and its dontdobends still:bigcry:

[DazBlackCSL]

Do you have to keep reminding me:banghead: and its dontdobends still:bigcry:

lol :hahaha: