Warranty / Mods [Archive]

Guybrush

18-09-2010, 10:04 PM

Bounce

18-09-2010, 10:16 PM

Hi all,

Thinking about the comprehensive warranty, but there is a big tick-box asking me to declare that my car hasn't been modified. The APs & SS backbox kind of contradict that :whistle:

Have any of you taken out the same whilst having mods, and did you have any issues when coming to claim?

Thanks
RichardIs this the BMW extendable warranty,as when i renew over the phone every year,they never ask about mods.only that it still has fbmwsh.

dpsoden

18-09-2010, 10:22 PM

I declared that APs were currently fitted and that coilovers used to be (they requested the service history) - they refused to let me take the warranty out.

Incidentallly, they mentioned that if they subsequently found out it would invalidate any claim, so theoretically you could be paying +/- £1,200 for a worthless piece of paper.

I understand it all depends on how the servicing garage process the claim, so I guess the choice of garage is even more critical if you do take the warranty out.

glendog74

18-09-2010, 10:22 PM

I let mine lapse back in 2008, then renewed in 2009 - no questions asked... :whistle:

shimmy

18-09-2010, 10:35 PM

DuncanR had a new engine, head gasket and more.

Not sure if he has any OEM car left!

Steviebee

19-09-2010, 10:32 PM

DuncanR had a new engine, head gasket and more.

Not sure if he has any OEM car left!

A new engine!? What failed out of interest?

glendog74

19-09-2010, 10:56 PM

A new engine!? What failed out of interest?

The driver. Epic fail. :hahaha:

AlexGTT

19-09-2010, 11:16 PM

The driver. Epic fail. :hahaha:

:hahaha:

bromers

19-09-2010, 11:41 PM

My warranty has been declined because the car had previously had a non oem exhaust. Car all standard now but claim rejected because it had had a Milltek fitted, had been noted on a previous service.

I'd go for a 3rd party - the Bmw one is the biggest waste of time and money.

"you need to tell them anything that might impact the claim on the car" - it's in the T&C's.

Steer clear especially when modded.

bromers

19-09-2010, 11:44 PM

I understand it all depends on how the servicing garage process the claim, so I guess the choice of garage is even more critical if you do take the warranty out.

Certain parts are "covered" by the dealer, expensive parts goto Head Office for approval and then they'll try and wangle their way out of it.

Guybrush

19-09-2010, 11:45 PM

bromers

19-09-2010, 11:48 PM

Thanks Bromers - that was what I needed to hear - don't want to shell out and get no protection. What's a good third-party? WarrantyDirect?

Tempted to just bung a grand in a high interest a/c - seems to have paid off so far...
Richard

It maybe worth phoning them and explaining your mods but then your car will be 'marked' as never being able to have a BMW warranty ?

glendog74

20-09-2010, 12:50 AM

I'd go for a 3rd party - the Bmw one is the biggest waste of time and money.

Steer clear especially when modded.

Certain parts are "covered" by the dealer, expensive parts goto Head Office for approval and then they'll try and wangle their way out of it.

I must say that i disagree with you there bromers. It's now pretty well known that you have not had a good experience of BMW warranty but i do believe that your experience is an isolated one tbh.

Personally i have had good experience with BMW and their warranty - and my car is modified 'considerably'. There are plenty of others on here who have similar experience of BMW warranty - like me, their cars are also modified...

At the end of the day as i have said in other threads; it depends which dealer you take the car to as some are clearly better than others when it comes to warranty claims... :whistle:

Guybrush - Evidence of good BMW warranty service is on this forum in many other threads. I personally wouldn't entertain an independent warranty from elsewhere.

..and no - i don't work for BMW Warranty services :hahaha:

shimmy

20-09-2010, 01:11 AM

i had an independant warranty for 2 years, never claimed but in that time BMW gave me a new gearbox and clutch/flywheel on Goodwill:thumbs:

md23

20-09-2010, 08:42 AM

Get the BMW one or keep the cash and pay for the bits that fall off. :thumbs:

Wouldn't waste my time with any independent insurers personally - IMO much more likely to try and weasel out of claims. With the BMW backed warranty it's all down to how the dealer presents the claim (and therefore possibly(?) your relationship with said dealer). As a matter of interest though, for the sake of a balanced view, has anyone any positive experience from third party insurers like warranty direct?

DuncanR

20-09-2010, 08:48 AM

The driver. Epic fail. :hahaha:
Cock !

:hahaha:
Cock !
A new engine!? What failed out of interest?

It spun a shell Stevie, Im afraid my driving ability clearly suppased the Engineering genius of the German Design team !:supz:...

It just happened, no secondary reason like low oil, or failed oil pump, or pressure relief valve...it was just that engines ...time to let go ...and move on ...:bigcry:

Bounce

20-09-2010, 09:31 AM

It spun a shell Stevie, Im afraid my driving ability clearly suppased the Engineering genius of the German Design team !...:bigcry:[/quote]:hahaha::hahaha::thumbs:

DuncanR

20-09-2010, 10:05 AM

I would opt for the BMW warranty ... tick the box BEFORE you put those mods on, :whistle: ...so to speak, so that you are being honest at the time of filling the application form out , and wont therefore subject yourself to any soul searching should you eventually have to make a claim for ..say .. a new engine ? Take said car to a certain dealership well documented on this forum as having the most experience in dealing with all things CSL !

Case of Tetaka v BMW Canada Inc. is interesting full details here.
http://www.internationallawoffice.com/newsletters/detail.aspx?g=8d3d08e8-bb74-40ca-851e-4088de833f9d

Main point here, they did appeal the case, but they still paid out under warranty.

Facts
BMW manufactured the BMW M5 car which was leased by the plaintiff. Shortly after leasing the vehicle, the plaintiff had extensive modifications carried out on the car, which were neither approved nor installed by BMW. These modifications included the installation of a stereo and DVD system, an in-dashboard television, a multi-function remote control and a variety of other items intended to enhance the performance of the vehicle. The plaintiff drove the modified vehicle for a number of months without incident. However, one day when the plaintiff was driving the car the driver's airbag and side impact head protection spontaneously deployed.
The plaintiff subsequently took the car to BMW for repair. BMW refused to replace the airbags under the warranty on the basis that the modifications to the vehicle may have contributed to the improper deployment of the airbags. The plaintiff then launched an action against BMW, claiming damages for negligence and breach of warranty.
The warranty agreement at issue was composed of a number of paragraphs, including a general coverage provision which warranted that the vehicle was free of defects in material or workmanship, and that coverage under the warranty required the vehicle to be brought to the workshop of an authorized BMW dealer upon discovery of a defect in the material or workmanship.The warranty also contained a number of exclusions. One paragraph provided that the warranty did not apply to modifications of the vehicle or the installation of any performance accessories or components which altered the original engineering or operating specifications. Another paragraph provided that BMW would accept no liability for parts or accessories that it had not approved.

Trial Decision
The trial judge dismissed the plaintiff's negligence claim and held that there had been a breach of warranty. He ordered BMW to pay for the cost of the airbag repairs.
In reaching this decision the trial judge found that the exemption clause concerning modifications in BMW's warranty agreement was "poorly drafted" and "ambiguous". In his view, the liability exemption clause was reasonably capable of having one of two interpretations. The first interpretation - the one argued by the plaintiff - was that the warranty excluded repairs on non-BMW after-market accessories that were not approved, manufactured or installed by BMW. The second interpretation - and one advocated by BMW - was that the warranty did not apply to performance accessories or components that had been installed or attached to the vehicle which resulted in damage to the original components. Applying the contra proferentem principle, the trial judge interpreted the liability exclusion clause in favour of the plaintiff, as applying only to accessories or components added to the vehicle that were not approved by BMW, such that the airbags at issue remained covered under the warranty.
The trial judge went on to find that the deployment of the airbags, in the absence of a collision, was a 'defect' within the meaning of the warranty. He noted that the warranty covered defects without any limitation as to how they were caused, even if the evidence did not permit their precise determination, unless they were otherwise excluded by a liability exclusion clause. The trial judge was therefore satisfied that the plaintiff had shown that the warranty did apply and that BMW should have repaired the airbags. The plaintiff was accordingly awarded the cost of those repairs.

In the final notes of the appeal, the Judge made this interesting point with regard to proving who was responsible for the defect.

"Rather, the burden is on the plaintiff (me & you) to prove that the defect was caused by the defendant's (BMW in this case) conduct within the terms of the warranty. " How would that be possible to do, if the only diagnostics software/hardware was available from BMW ???

Food for thought should someone want to take the mighty BMW on in the UK !

Yours
CSL Miami

AlexGTT

20-09-2010, 10:44 AM

Cock !

Cock !

:hahaha::thumbs:;)

_Nathan_

20-09-2010, 10:52 AM

Dunc - that airbag thing is interesting as a member on here had an airbag beploy on the motorway for no reason and BMW refused to help out as the suspension was modified.

Bealo

20-09-2010, 11:36 AM

Nothing but good things to say about the BMW warranty.

Infact i feel it is that good and issue free that it would steer me towards having another BMW in the future :thumbs:

bromers

20-09-2010, 01:54 PM

I must say that i disagree with you there bromers. It's now pretty well known that you have not had a good experience of BMW warranty but i do believe that your experience is an isolated one tbh.

Personally i have had good experience with BMW and their warranty - and my car is modified 'considerably'. There are plenty of others on here who have similar experience of BMW warranty - like me, their cars are also modified...

At the end of the day as i have said in other threads; it depends which dealer you take the car to as some are clearly better than others when it comes to warranty claims... :whistle:

Guybrush - Evidence of good BMW warranty service is on this forum in many other threads. I personally wouldn't entertain an independent warranty from elsewhere.

..and no - i don't work for BMW Warranty services :hahaha:

My very recent impressions were that they were really clamping down on claims. If your car is modified and the dealer doesn't declare them to Mondial or Head Office then it is fine, for what it's worth my hadn't, but you are always running the risk that they will reject a claim. The warranty T&C's quote it and they can use them against you.

And from another thread in here there's no BMW goodwill anymore on cars this age.

I would be really interested to know if a 3rd party warranty would of paid out though.

DuncanR

20-09-2010, 03:00 PM

Dunc - that airbag thing is interesting as a member on here had an airbag beploy on the motorway for no reason and BMW refused to help out as the suspension was modified.
And that was the point being made in the court case, taking things to the extreme, IF you fitted an after market snazzy interior mirror, how the fook would that be a contributable cause to early airbag deployment ??
Maybe said member should do a little more research on the subject.:whistle: ... here perhaps ? http://www.autoforumz.com/Series-E39-Accidental-Airbag-Deployment-ftopict98451.html

Dan

20-09-2010, 04:01 PM

i had an independant warranty for 2 years, never claimed but in that time BMW gave me a new gearbox and clutch/flywheel on Goodwill:thumbs:

Fuckers! I've just been told today that even though I have the Comprehensive Warranty with BMW, potentially my clutch slur isn't covered as there's some sort of exclusion on the clutch, can't fucking believe it!? :banghead: :banghead:

DazBlackCSL

20-09-2010, 04:20 PM

Nothing but good things to say about the BMW warranty.

Infact i feel it is that good and issue free that it would steer me towards having another BMW in the future :thumbs:

http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/smileys/free-sign-smileys-966.gif (http://www.easyfreesmileys.com/Free-Thinking-Smileys/)

Thorney

20-09-2010, 04:22 PM

THe Canadian case will have no bearing on UK law as different legal system, however Canadian law is in part based on the UK's judicial system so could be at least referred to (BMW would strive to have it exlcuded of course).

However the point they make (and is referred to since) is that BMW's main case was that they said the modification 'caused' the issue but as the only people who can ascertain the 'cause' is BMW then the onus of proof is on them as only they have the facitlies to measure it so BMW are in a difficult situation, either open up their diagnostic systems to third parties (which they should do under EU law but invariably make it difficult) or accept that push comes to shove they will have to pay out in such circumstances.

_Nathan_

20-09-2010, 04:23 PM

Fuckers! I've just been told today that even though I have the Comprehensive Warranty with BMW, potentially my clutch slur isn't covered as there's some sort of exclusion on the clutch, can't fucking believe it!? :banghead: :banghead:

This has always been the case, it is a wearing friction part.

If they take it out and the clutch itself isn't worn then warrenty should cover, but all depends on how the dealer involved relays information and how well they understand the normal issues the CSL suffers.

Franco

20-09-2010, 04:25 PM

Dont sound cheap Dan!

Dan

20-09-2010, 04:33 PM

This has always been the case, it is a wearing friction part.

If they take it out and the clutch itself isn't worn then warrenty should cover, but all depends on how the dealer involved relays information and how well they understand the normal issues the CSL suffers.

The dealer is very aware of the situation, it's in at our favourite place Nathan, the trouble is it's the best part of £650 labour just to take the gearbox out and then it still might not be covered dependent on what they find! Catch 22 now and it's the main thing I wanted sorted with the bloody car! :bigcry: :banghead:

Dont sound cheap Dan!

As above mate... :whistle:

Franco

20-09-2010, 05:13 PM

OUCH!

shimmy

20-09-2010, 05:24 PM

Fuckers! I've just been told today that even though I have the Comprehensive Warranty with BMW, potentially my clutch slur isn't covered as there's some sort of exclusion on the clutch, can't fucking believe it!? :banghead: :banghead:

Dan, fight it,

The exclusion if you read the booklet is for NON FRICTION COMPONENTS and that should mean that unless the clutch plate is worn then you should be convered. I have had two changed that were not worn but slipping.

Dealers have been told to tighten up but that does not change the facts or text of the cover. Your clutch slip my guess if under 60k miles will not be wear but the problem of the clutch not adjusting properly to the wear during use.

Speak to the dealer principal and speak to BMW UK and Mondial.

CSL clutches do not fail due to wear but due to design.:thumbs:

Get them to confirm that if not worn below limits then they will provide warranty. Also note that ALL reasonable diagnostic charges are also recoverable under warranty, no matter what they say IF the work is proven to be a succesful warranty claim

shimmy

20-09-2010, 05:28 PM

, the trouble is it's the best part of £650 labour just to take the gearbox out

:whistle:

As i said above diagnostics are recoverable if claim succesful, confirmed by Mondial and BMW Warranty

_Nathan_

20-09-2010, 05:29 PM

Dan - I believe that it has always been the case that you agree to cover the cost of taking it to bits in the event there is no fault found. - certainly I had to agree that in the past for my clutch claims.

Dan

20-09-2010, 05:35 PM

Bounce

20-09-2010, 05:39 PM

DuncanR

20-09-2010, 05:46 PM

DuncanR

20-09-2010, 05:48 PM

The dealer is very aware of the situation, it's in at our favourite place Nathan, the trouble is it's the best part of £650 labour just to take the gearbox out and then it still might not be covered dependent on what they find! Catch 22 now and it's the main thing I wanted sorted with the bloody car! :bigcry: :banghead:

As above mate... :whistle:
I assume you have latest SMG upgrade and all that Dan ?

AlexGTT

20-09-2010, 05:52 PM

Will see chaps, awaiting on Adrian at Murkett's coming back to me...

I've spent £91 Inc VAT on a re-teach program today and that didn't work, the car and therefore clutch has just ticked over 47k Shim!

Dan, don't worry about it and just get it done. Mine was at similar miles, had the clutch out and they saw hardly any wear on the plate. Almost new depth of friction material. New flywheel, clutch unit and compensating (something or other.......:whistle:shows how much notice I take) all fitted under warranty. Job done.

shimmy

20-09-2010, 05:53 PM

they would have reprogrammed latest update for SMG (never works so get the money back if warranty succesful)

my first clutch lasted 42k and wear was minimal but slur was huge ;)

second one lasted 25k miles and had one day of warranty lef t on it :smokin:

make sure you ask to have the clutch plate if they say it is not warrantied and you will get independant check of it. :whistle:

Dan - the clutch will not be worn out, just badly designed.

shimmy

20-09-2010, 05:55 PM

Dan, don't worry about it and just get it done. Mine was at similar miles, had the clutch out and they saw hardly any wear on the plate. Almost new depth of friction material. New flywheel, clutch unit and compensating (something or other.......:whistle:shows how much notice I take) all fitted under warranty. Job done.

the problem at the moment is that BMW are tuning the screws wo some dealers are bowing to the pressure and putting it back towrds owners. If the usual service manager was there he would know the correct senario but the new gusy dont even know the basics and are in the deep end a little i think. Nice guys but i guess new to BMW and then BMW UK standing over them with a big hatchet!

mattCSLnut

20-09-2010, 06:06 PM

If the usual service manager was there he would know the correct senario but the new gusy dont even know the basics and are in the deep end a little i think.

Right on the money Shimmy :thumbs: I think this is the main problem at the moment for Dan. Our beloved CSL Expert is off sick so people like Dan are being stressed out by inexperienced staff :whistle: Fight it Dan... remind them that this is a common CSL problem/fault :whistle:

Dan

20-09-2010, 06:29 PM

I assume you have latest SMG upgrade and all that Dan ?

They tried to re-program it mate and that's not worked!

Dan, don't worry about it and just get it done. Mine was at similar miles, had the clutch out and they saw hardly any wear on the plate. Almost new depth of friction material. New flywheel, clutch unit and compensating (something or other.......:whistle:shows how much notice I take) all fitted under warranty. Job done.

Right on the money Shimmy :thumbs: I think this is the main problem at the moment for Dan. Our beloved CSL Expert is off sick so people like Dan are being stressed out by inexperienced staff :whistle: Fight it Dan... remind them that this is a common CSL problem/fault :whistle:

As above guy's I have told him to get on with it and take the box out as he advised he has spoken with BMW warranty and is quite confident the problem will be covered... :whistle:

It is a shame about Andy not being around and I mentioned this to him that Andy would know the score and also reclaim the £91 of programming, he said they have to be belt and braces and the £91 wasn't covered so I've asked him to query this again! :banghead:

Let's just hope it's all the same and there is no wear on the plate as usual with CSL's! :bigcry:

glendog74

20-09-2010, 07:01 PM

If the usual service manager was there he would know the correct senario but the new gusy dont even know the basics and are in the deep end a little i think. Nice guys but i guess new to BMW and then BMW UK standing over them with a big hatchet!

D'oh! Not great news - especially as i am there next month to have some warranty work done! :bigcry:

Hope you get it sorted Dan.

Dan

20-09-2010, 07:10 PM

D'oh! Not great news - especially as i am there next month to have some warranty work done! :bigcry:

Hope you get it sorted Dan.

Thanks Rob, I'll keep you all posted on how it proceed's up there, I've got everything crossed that Andy might be back sometime this week and can intervene (sp) if necessary before things go too far... :whistle:

I must say Adrian who I'm talking to is a really nice guy and has done his best to talk me though things today so it isn't too bad a situation just yet :thumbs: :)