Seats...specifically the mounts...

[titan]

Righto, whats the "done thing" in terms of seat mounts if you want to retain sliders ?

I'll be fitting a pair of buckets for harnesses and as there'll be some others driving my car I need to retain adjustability so no bolting the sidemounts down direct.

Ideally the seat should sit as low as possible.

Enlighten me :)

[shimmy]

VAC transition mounts with recaro sliders.

Jay has milled some replica VAC mounts at half the price if you want to give them a go.

[_Nathan_]

Yep, VAC mounts or Jay's replicas, recaro sliders and side mounts.

[titan]

Ah this'll be the same Jay on Northloop who was posting up pics of his replicas and very fine they look too.

"Recaro Sliders" - can you bee a bit more specific ? As Recaro make some sliders for specific models, or you can get generic stuff.

We talking about these:
http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/Motorsport/Seats_&_Accessories/Seat_Mounting_Frames/Recaro_Double_Locking_Runners/1763/0/15764

Side mounts - ah man I've been badly own3d on seats and side mounts in the past, in the evo I went through three sets of runners before finding something that worked and fitted. Some sidemounts are made specific for the seat width, you'd think people would work to standards.....

[_Nathan_]

Recaro are quite specific about which mounts to buy from memory.

They are the runners I have in my car.

[titan]

Recaro are quite specific about which mounts to buy from memory.

They are the runners I have in my car.

yes indeed, I did end up with some sidemounts for a recaro XL seat which don't fit the standard sized seats. Neither fitted the sparco seats.

The runners good? Smooth action and lock firmly in place ?

[_Nathan_]

Runners are fine, dunno about smooth, not really analyzed to that degree but they seem ok, lock just fine and pass scrutineering OK.

[KingM3]

I have Recaro seats, mounts and runners in my M3.

Purchased a few years ago from
http://www.thorneymotorsport.co.uk/products/index.php?cPath=1329_1637_1341_1372_1674

Never had any problem's with the runners, always lock firmly.

[shimmy]

Side mounts are specific to seats but runner from recaro I believe is generic. Check their wdbsite for PDF brochure and full details.

Alternatvely have a word with Jay about side mounts as he could make them it buy VAC ones if any cheaper.

[karbonkid]

Yep Recaro side mounts are specific for the their shell type. For example Pole Position shells come in ABE or FIA form. Even both PP have different side mounts, so wont fit one another. ABE seats were designed for German road use and FIA for racing. ABE come with a choice of aluminum or steel, where as FIA only offer the steel side mounts to fit correctly. The SPG XL also offers a choice of aluminum or steel. Recaro sliders will be generic for the shells.

[titan]

TMS rang me back with some info today, whilst on phone I had a quick chat to JT. His approach is recaro seat, recaro sidemount, BMW mount/sliders, same as what KingM3 is proposing.

I can well see the point of the VAC mounts if you wanted to mount a seat/sidemount straight onto the "floor", but if you want sliders, companies make up seat mounts with sliders that use OEM bolt holes.

For example, Sparco do these for an E46:
http://www.sparcousa.com/pseats_acc.asp?id=537

you then chuck on a track set (or not) and your sidemounts/seats.

Only downside I know of is that sometimes the seat ends up a bit higher than you'd like.

[daniel]

I don't think you can use the bmw mounts?

[shimmy]

I'm surprised John is using that type of seat base mount after his episode at Silverstone. It doesn't look up to much!! I wouldn't fancy being in a crash with one if those thin things :(

And I think if you read KingM3 post again he says quite clearly TMS fitted recaro runners on his and he doesn't mention the base mount.

[titan]

pffffff who knows eh.

What I do know is to take the advice of someone who's done it himself and doesn't have a vested interest in selling products ;-)

So, back onto the idea of Jays "VAC" mounts, sliders and side mounts....do the seats sit nice and low or a bit high ?

I don't really care whether I pay out for Jays mounts or some expensive recaro/sparco base because in the big scheme of things these costs are minimal. But I *do* want something that will work without hassle and not end up creaking under braking cornering like one of the setups I trialled and binned.

[shimmy]

I don't really care whether I pay out for Jays mounts or some expensive recaro/sparco base because in the big scheme of things these costs are minimal. But I *do* want something that will work without hassle and not end up creaking under braking cornering like one of the setups I trialled and binned.

my drivers seat is Recaro XPG with Recaor side mounts and Recaro runner and VAC extended base mounts. No creaking!

i ran without the runners for about 8 months and it was really low, even i at 6'3" felt and looked like Hazy in the car:thumbs:. eventually fitted the runner as i couldnt leave it at the garage as they had nobody tal enough to reach the pedals

If i was doing it again id do the same but maybe save some money and get Jay to do the base mounts

[_Nathan_]

I ditched the VACs as at 2m tall (6'7") I really needed the seat as low as possible to move my head away from the cage, ended up cutting out the BMW floor mounts all together and welding new points in lower down that accept the runners directly. from what I've seen the VAC mounts get the seat lower than the subframes though.

Best bet is to try and meet up with someone who has the VAC setup and give it a go, how tall are you?

[titan]

I'm not that tall, but a friend with an M3 is going to do the same as whatever I decide - and he is !

Its more that I like sitting down low in a car. Not to mention the numerous seconds saved on a lap due to lower COG ;-)

Jason has been in touch so I'll go with this. A tried and tested formula. And when it doesn't work because I'll be using a sparco seat, I'll scream.

cheers all.

[_Nathan_]

Have a look on the vac website, pretty sure sparco are ok with them.

[cantfind1]

Sparco also do mounts and sliders, I have them in my car they work very well!! Fit is excellent and the height is spot on. I am running them with Sparco Pro 2000 seats.

[titan]

Aarrrghhhhhh seats, bl00dy seats, mounting aftermarket seats is always the same, no two cars are the same, nothing ever fits right !!

Right, I bought Sparco Pro2000. To play it safe I also bought sparco rails and base mounts. (I had a spare pair of sparco sidemounts in my garage)

Although you need a few kilos of nuts and bolts, it all bolts up nicely and fits into the car without issue. As it should !!!

However
1. The seats sit every so slightly higher than stock, rubbish.
2. With steel sidemounts, runners, frames the seat assembly weighs more than the CSL OEM one !! Rubbish.

So - next up I try Jays ally billet mounts. First issue, the runners have to be inverted as the bottom mounting holes do not match up to the billet mount hole pattern. The top ones do. I assume the billet pattern is standard sidemount pattern. Anyway, I can probably drill some holes in the runners but for now I mount them inverted (was the same on the evo)

Next issue - the sparco runners are quite narrow and this means using the rightmost holes on the left mount and the leftmost holes on the right mount - which works! The seat sits nice and low now however is off-centre from the steering wheel. Due to the holes used there is no sideways adjustment.

At which point I pulled out some other seat crap from the garage and lo and behold found a pull bar that my evo tuners made up which is wider!! Thus allowing the runners to fit on middle holes on the billets. Seems just like the reversing rails issue my tuners also had the width issue. Doing this means the sidemounts need to be inverted to meet up with the seat. All works, but looks a bit of a dogs dinner to be honest.

Looking at the pictures of sparco steel sidemounts and their runners, it looks like they use a narrow base section for the runner/frame, then the sidemounts open out to give you the width for the seat.

It also looks like the recaro runners have a wider base and their sidemounts don't need to open out to allow the seat to fit.

To anyone who has a set of recaro sliders, could you do me a favour and measure the distance between the runners?

cheers :)

[uncle benz]

Why did you not ask me to do this while the car was here?

Done loads of these now!

[titan]

A number of reasons. The main one being that in my garage I've two sets of rails, 3 sets of sidemounts and I've done this before. Plus I've been chatting to Jay about the passenger side woes and wanted to see for myself what the deal was.

Also, whipping out a 13mm spanner once in a while justifies the teng toolkit I have in the garage :D

[KingM3]

To anyone who has a set of recaro sliders, could you do me a favour and measure the distance between the runners?


Distance between runners 368mm with Recaro runners, side mounts and pole positions.
Hope this helps.

[titan]

Cheers mate :)

I can update the thread now with more tale of woe.

Bought some recaro sliders and also the very nice looking, very light alloy sidemounts that the tweeks website says are fitment for an SPG (ie normal width base seat).

yeah yeah you can see whats coming. The website is wrong, these alloy mounts are for the XL seat. Recaro don't make an alloy mount version of their basic steel mount, so its steel mounts all round.

So laughably its taken me a number of attempts to prove what a few guys on here said all along - VAC mounts (or Jays), recaro sliders and sidemounts, job done.

You do need to drill additional mounting holes in the sliders though because the boltholes don't line up exactly. I cannot see how it would be possible to do otherwise, even mounting the rails upside down they don't fit... I also will drill additional mounting holes in the sidemounts as the recaro steel mounts have only one hole at the front and two at the rear, a bit limiting and I like sitting low...

FWIW, the recaro sliders are far better quality than the sparco ones.

[shimmy]

So laughably its taken me a number of attempts to prove what a few guys on here said all along - VAC mounts (or Jays), recaro sliders and sidemounts, job done.

.



:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghead:


AGAIN

[_Nathan_]

You do need to drill additional mounting holes in the sliders though because the boltholes don't line up exactly.

Pretty sure mine did?

Glad you are sorted anyway.

[titan]

Pretty sure mine did?

Jays mounts (which I assume means the VAC mounts also) use a sidemount style bolt pattern.

The recaro runners (and also the sparco ones too) have holes to fit sidemounts on the top, but the bottom rail of the runners have holes with different offsets. In short - they don't fit. You can of course turn them upside down if you are using a sidemount with lots of holes or adjustability to fit the "non sidemount" side, but then you have to push the adjuster down to move the seat and it no longer moves *with* the seat.

Anyhow - I hate bodge jobs and wanted to do this right. By drilling one extra hole and elongating two slightly each runner now has 4 bolts into the ally mounts so they are going NOWHERE. The sidemounts go straight on, although I'm somewhat of a perfectionist and seat position is a very personal thing - I found that the best position was to swap the sidemounts and drill one extra hole at the "now rear" of the mount. They also look better this way.

So - all finished in that the seats are at the right height, the right slope for me, have lots of high tensile bolts holding the lot together, weighs slightly less than stock and also importantly, the seat rail isn't massively extended from its outer rail when you're in the right seating position [1]

Only thing I haven't cracked is what to do with the seatbelt bit. Or indeed whether to bother at all and just wait until the rear cage and harnesses are fitted....


[1] This is important because if you drive with the inside rail sticking a way out from the outer one, the back and forth loads eventually make the rails a very loose fit and the seat feels like it is unbolted and slopping around.

Time was tight today and as always the wife was chewing my ear, might get some pics some other time...