Seeking CSL knowledge.

[///Max]

Hi. I've been a member for a short while but this is my first time posting. First let me start off by saying that I envy you guys a lot for being able to own a CSL. I live in the U.S. and as all of you all know we have no CSL's here. I've always wanting to own my own CSL and have even thought about moving to the UK to get into one.

Anyways, the reason why I am in need of your help is because I want to start a project to build my own "CSL" as close as I possibly can to the real one. What I would do is sell my 2003 Silver Gray M3 and buy a 2005-06 Silver Gray M3 CS. Im doing this because the CS has many similarities as the CSL so it would be a good platform to start from. Then after that, I basically want to buy these parts and install them. (Prices are approximate to how much we can get them here in the states.)

Exterior:
Front bumper: $3000
Boot lid: Already acquired from Craig!
Rear diffuser: $1000
Carbon fiber roof: $1611
Rear window: $1000
Grille emblems: $90
Wheels: $2500

Interior:
Front seats: $3500
Rear seats: $2000
Front door panels: $1300
Rear door panels: $850
Center console: $450
Door sills: $350

Performance:
Air box: $4500
Camshafts (both): $1500
Headers (both): $2200
Catalytic converter (both): $1850
X pipe: $850
Muffler: $1000

Everything is really straight bolt on and will have no issue with that, but there is one major problem. The hardest modification by far will be to get the CSL air box to work properly and have the engine run smooth. Many here in the states buy the air box and remove the flap because only BMW was the proper software to make it work properly. And after all that, many times the car has a rough idle even after a tune. One of my questions is, if I were to buy a CSL's ECU, with cams and air box already installed, would the car and air box run properly? If not, then how about getting a hold of a CSL's engine with ECU and air box ... would it work then? If anyone has a idea or solution, do tell.

This is one many questions I have in planning this project. I told a few of my friends, but they could care less about it. And it's not their fault, they just don't know or have never heard of this amazing car. I guess I just need to vent and let out what Im planning to people who know and appreciate the CSL.

If anyone has any information, or can pointe out something I may have missed, or have any knowledge of how to make this project a bit easier, please let me know. Im am always open to any information about the CSL. It's always exciting when you find out something new about your dream car.

Thanks for your time.

Andy Max

[Thorney]

Andy, first off the front bumper will not fit straight on, the M3 has a different bumper bar configuration where the bar is part of the bumper and the on the CSL the bar is part of the car (subtle difference but means you cant just swap over), get an aftermarket CSL style bumper.

As for the ECU, yes, a CSL ECU and loom will work but will need re-coding to the car and likely re-mapping as well. People like Turner MS in the states should be fine with that.

[Dan]

Would the car be RHD or LHD as well, isn't there a difference in the headers dependent on this?

[Bounce]

Hi Andy,i wouldn't rush to buy CSL wheels,as the CS ones are the same,only slightly narrower at the front i think.;)

[glendog74]

Welcome Andy,

Forum members 'phat///M3' and 'Rutkowski' have both modified their E46 M3s using CSL parts. I know Rutkowski has a CSL airbox installed and he will no doubt be able to offer you advice on that one.

Enjoy the site and all things CSL!

Rob :thumbs:

[danp]

Welcome to the site, not sure it's quite worth moving to the UK to have a CSL, but appreciate the sentiment!

Guess must be exorbitantly expensive to import one from Europe then?

[///Max]

Andy, first off the front bumper will not fit straight on, the M3 has a different bumper bar configuration where the bar is part of the bumper and the on the CSL the bar is part of the car (subtle difference but means you cant just swap over), get an aftermarket CSL style bumper.

As for the ECU, yes, a CSL ECU and loom will work but will need re-coding to the car and likely re-mapping as well. People like Turner MS in the states should be fine with that.

Thanks for the heads up. :thumbs: Im aware of this and Tischer BMW sells the required parts to mount the bumper since my car has the kevlar bracket and wont be a straight bolt on.

I didn't know Turner MS offered this. Thanks for the tip, Ill look into it. :beer:

Would the car be RHD or LHD as well, isn't there a difference in the headers dependent on this?

It will be a LHD. I don't believe so. I've never heard of this but I may be wrong. I would more than likely get all exhaust parts from CA Auto, they have already sent me quotes for everything. ;)

Hi Andy,i wouldn't rush to buy CSL wheels,as the CS ones are the same,only slightly narrower at the front i think.;)

Your are correct my friend. The CSL's are half an inch wider than the CS, 8.5 inches as apposed to 8 inches. To have these is more for bragging rights. :thumbs:

Welcome Andy,

Forum members 'phat///M3' and 'Rutkowski' have both modified their E46 M3s using CSL parts. I know Rutkowski has a CSL airbox installed and he will no doubt be able to offer you advice on that one.

Enjoy the site and all things CSL!

Rob :thumbs:

Sweet. I'll have to send these guys a PM.

Thank you sir, you know I will. :beer:

Welcome to the site, not sure it's quite worth moving to the UK to have a CSL, but appreciate the sentiment!

Guess must be exorbitantly expensive to import one from Europe then?

Thanks. :thumbs:

I've heard it is very expensive. I don't exactly know how much but I think I read somewhere that it gets close to the $100,000 range, not sure though. But money aside, its also very, very complicated and takes a very long time with no guarantee that it will work in the end. Bummer. :bigcry:

[glendog74]

Guess must be exorbitantly expensive to import one from Europe then?


I've heard it is very expensive. I don't exactly know how much but I think I read somewhere that it gets close to the $100,000 range, not sure though. But money aside, its also very, very complicated and takes a very long time with no guarantee that it will work in the end. Bummer. :bigcry:

I also seem to remember that the CSL was not able to be driven on the public highway in the US due to not passing their import/emissions/DVLA equivalent checks.

[sailorbaz]

Welcome mate and best of luck with the build.

[///Max]

I also seem to remember that the CSL was not able to be driven on the public highway in the US due to not passing their import/emissions/DVLA equivalent checks.

That's also correct. If you remap your ECU with the Alpha N software, it will not pass the checks done by their computer on the car at the inspection place. :banghead: I don't know why this is though. That's another reason why people here don't really go for the CSL intake setup.

I've also heard that it wouldn't pass crash tests here do to BMW removing some air bags and the weight saving program BMW did on the car. But don't quote me on this. :whistle:

Andy Max

[///Max]

Welcome mate and best of luck with the build.

Thank you sir, Im gonna need it. :beer:

[cantfind1]

Here you go mate have a read of this!

http://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/showthread.php?t=19914&highlight=evolve

[///Max]

Here you go mate have a read of this!

http://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/showthread.php?t=19914&highlight=evolve

Thank you sir. I'm definitely going to try to get some information from this Sal person. :thumbs:

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

Have you investigated Importing a CSL
into Canada as a ''Grey Import'' and then
once it has Title in Canada then import it
as a 'Grey' Import to USA.

I know a Guy who did this with a Mercedes EVO 1
and that Car is actually now back in Canada after
spending about 4 years in Florida.

Building a clone will be expensive and no
matter how good, not original.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[///Max]

Hi,

Have you investigated Importing a CSL
into Canada as a ''Grey Import'' and then
once it has Title in Canada then import it
as a 'Grey' Import to USA.

I know a Guy who did this with a Mercedes EVO 1
and that Car is actually now back in Canada after
spending about 4 years in Florida.

Building a clone will be expensive and no
matter how good, not original.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

I've never heard of a grey import but I will definitaley look into this. Buying a CSL would be so much easier and cheaper than building one and I personally would much rather have a real CSL. :smt023

Thanks for the tip. :beer:

Andy Max

[bromers]

I'd import one and say it's a normal M3 'they' won't know the difference .

[Bealo]

Hello and welcome to the forum, goodluck in whichever direction you choose to take:thumbs:

[///Max]

I'd import one and say it's a normal M3 'they' won't know the difference .

I would do this but if I were to somehow get the car is imported, customs will check the vin number. Once customs sees that the vin number is different the car will either be sent back or destroyed and there will be many fines to pay. :axe:

Hello and welcome to the forum, goodluck in whichever direction you choose to take:thumbs:

Thank you sir! :beer:

[DuncanR]

Andy , welcome to the forum ... I have a great idea .... why dont you come and live over here for a few months with MY CSL ... and I will come live out there with ..well..... your housemaid ????:thumbs:... please send recent pic of said maid !!:hahaha:...

I was going to say your wife reaLLY BUT ITS EARLY DAYS YET ISNT IT !! FOOK CAPS !

[///Max]

Andy , welcome to the forum ... I have a great idea .... why dont you come and live over here for a few months with MY CSL ... and I will come live out there with ..well..... your housemaid ????:thumbs:... please send recent pic of said maid !!:hahaha:...

I was going to say your wife reaLLY BUT ITS EARLY DAYS YET ISNT IT !! FOOK CAPS !

Thanks but no thanks. :thumbs:

[double_r]

Here you go mate have a read of this!

http://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/showthread.php?t=19914&highlight=evolve

Thanks, that's my car. Max, if you have any questions in regards to tuning or airboxes, you can send me a pm.

[///Max]

Thanks, that's my car. Max, if you have any questions in regards to tuning or airboxes, you can send me a pm.

Will do. Thank you sir. :beer:

[Rutkowski]

Max, welcome to the forum!

As Glendog mentioned earlier on, i have been turning my standard M3 2003, into a CSL. I won't go all out and remove sound insulation, sat nav etc but have, what i call - the must - have CSL parts. Steering rack plus DSC reflash, Wheels, engine specification (CSL cams and exhaust valves) MSS54HP ECU (all M3s beyond 2004 have it) CSL SMG software, Recaro seats, upgraded brakes, headers and Supersprint 'street' exhaust, CSL anti roll bars, alcantara steering wheel, M track mode retrofit and a few more bits.

The OEM CSL carbon airbox - installed and tuned by Evolve. Works exactly like on the CSL... perfect and smooth idle and start up. Highly recommended modification. :thumbs:

Good luck with your project and as for the CSL carbon fibre roof - i'm still in two minds about it.... cutting out mine and installing CSL one so the car is rigid.. is it possible? How is it done on the CSL? What has BMW used to bond that roof?

[///Max]

Max, welcome to the forum!

As Glendog mentioned earlier on, i have been turning my standard M3 2003, into a CSL. I won't go all out and remove sound insulation, sat nav etc but have, what i call - the must - have CSL parts. Steering rack plus DSC reflash, Wheels, engine specification (CSL cams and exhaust valves) MSS54HP ECU (all M3s beyond 2004 have it) CSL SMG software, Recaro seats, upgraded brakes, headers and Supersprint 'street' exhaust, CSL anti roll bars, alcantara steering wheel, M track mode retrofit and a few more bits.

The OEM CSL carbon airbox - installed and tuned by Evolve. Works exactly like on the CSL... perfect and smooth idle and start up. Highly recommended modification. :thumbs:

Good luck with your project and as for the CSL carbon fibre roof - i'm still in two minds about it.... cutting out mine and installing CSL one so the car is rigid.. is it possible? How is it done on the CSL? What has BMW used to bond that roof?

Thanks you sir. :thumbs: Sounds like me and you have the same goal in mind. I want to start off with a M3 CS so the steering rack and other things will already be installed.

So you were able to get the OEM CSL air box to work properly?! Im going to have to PM you for the details because no one here in the states has ever made it work properly. They just install it and have the flap always open because they cant get it to open at the right RMP's and the idle is rough.

Yes the OEM CSL roof has been installed on a non CSL car. I plan on doing this too. Here is a link where daytonaviolet did it on his car. He knows a lot about anything CSL.

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=140950

Good luck with your car. Will keep in touch. :beer:

And Max

[shimmy]

Max, welcome to the forum!

As Glendog mentioned earlier on, i have been turning my standard M3 2003, into a CSL. I won't go all out and remove sound insulation, sat nav etc but have, what i call - the must - have CSL parts. Steering rack plus DSC reflash, Wheels, engine specification (CSL cams and exhaust valves) MSS54HP ECU (all M3s beyond 2004 have it) CSL SMG software, Recaro seats, upgraded brakes, headers and Supersprint 'street' exhaust, CSL anti roll bars, alcantara steering wheel, M track mode retrofit and a few more bits.

The OEM CSL carbon airbox - installed and tuned by Evolve. Works exactly like on the CSL... perfect and smooth idle and start up. Highly recommended modification. :thumbs:

Good luck with your project and as for the CSL carbon fibre roof - i'm still in two minds about it.... cutting out mine and installing CSL one so the car is rigid.. is it possible? How is it done on the CSL? What has BMW used to bond that roof?


Kris, do you ever drive your car?:whistle:

[glendog74]

So you were able to get the OEM CSL air box to work properly?! Im going to have to PM you for the details because no one here in the states has ever made it work properly. They just install it and have the flap always open because they cant get it to open at the right RMP's and the idle is rough.


Many of us CSL owners actually remove the flap :hahaha:

[///Max]

Many of us CSL owners actually remove the flap :hahaha:

Really? Why is that?

[Rutkowski]

Thanks you sir. :thumbs: Sounds like me and you have the same goal in mind. I want to start off with a M3 CS so the steering rack and other things will already be installed.

So you were able to get the OEM CSL air box to work properly?! Im going to have to PM you for the details because no one here in the states has ever made it work properly. They just install it and have the flap always open because they cant get it to open at the right RMP's and the idle is rough.

Yes the OEM CSL roof has been installed on a non CSL car. I plan on doing this too. Here is a link where daytonaviolet did it on his car. He knows a lot about anything CSL.

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=140950

Good luck with your car. Will keep in touch. :beer:

And Max

Max, thanks for the link!! :thumbs: It's one of my next mods, it's been decided since i convinced my wife the sunroof spoils handling. (she wanted me to retrofit this!!!!):thumbs:

I never bothered with the motorised flap as they do go faulty and don't open, resulting in loss of power. By the time you know what's happeneing - you'll lose a lot of races...... that's my explanation anyway. :hahaha:

For the flap to work, you need to retrofit wiring loom and install the CSL software on MSS54HP ECU. The diagrams are available but i can dig it out for you.

Good luck! ;)

[Rutkowski]

Kris, do you ever drive your car?:whistle:

Andrew.... yes i do and i have done a respectable 3 weeks of driving, in the last two years.... i kid you not!! Less is more is my motto!! :hahaha:

TBH i've so much upgrades that need installing.. spent £££s and it's all sitting in my flat. I think i have some sort of wierd fetish!! :whistle:

[_Nathan_]

Really? Why is that?

Because they always break and serve no purpose other than to lower noise :thumbs:

[alexk]

Because they always break and serve no purpose other than to lower noise :thumbs:

I think it's also for when driving in heavy rain (you take sport off which means it remains closed up to 5500rpm), where the ram air hole would send all the water in the intake.

[Thorney]

The flap is also there for emissions cycle testing but its not needed for an MOT in this regard so can be ditched. Roof is a relatively easy change, four bolts and drilling out some spot welds on the OEM metal one and bolts and bonding for the CSL one. Windscreen type sealant works just as well as others although make sure you do a water test after. A few breakers get CSL roofs in but check to see how they have been removed before buying as if you twist the roof as part of the removal it will break down the lacer and go opaque in the sunshine. New roof from BMW is £1300 I think? We did one for an insurance claim a little while ago due to something being dropped on it by a builder.

You could fit a race roof but I wouldn't advise it, they are much thiner and not as resistant to sunshine or water.

[AlexGTT]

I think it's also for when driving in heavy rain (you take sport off which means it remains closed up to 5500rpm), where the ram air hole would send all the water in the intake.

Alex, this wouldn't make any difference. The lower air feed is always open.

[alexk]

Alex, this wouldn't make any difference. The lower air feed is always open.

This takes air under the bumper

[_Nathan_]

Perhaps BMW should've linked the flap to the windscreen wipers ;)

What happens if you go over 5.5k rpm in the wet and the flap opens? Does the engine break due to hydraulic lock? Nope, it is fine...

[AlexGTT]

This takes air under the bumper

Ah, the lower lower one. I see.;)

[Rutkowski]

The flap is also there for emissions cycle testing but its not needed for an MOT in this regard so can be ditched. Roof is a relatively easy change, four bolts and drilling out some spot welds on the OEM metal one and bolts and bonding for the CSL one. Windscreen type sealant works just as well as others although make sure you do a water test after. A few breakers get CSL roofs in but check to see how they have been removed before buying as if you twist the roof as part of the removal it will break down the lacer and go opaque in the sunshine. New roof from BMW is £1300 I think? We did one for an insurance claim a little while ago due to something being dropped on it by a builder.

You could fit a race roof but I wouldn't advise it, they are much thiner and not as resistant to sunshine or water.

:thumbs:

[///Max]

As Glendog mentioned earlier on, i have been turning my standard M3 2003, into a CSL. I won't go all out and remove sound insulation, sat nav etc but have, what i call - the must - have CSL parts. Steering rack plus DSC reflash, Wheels, engine specification (CSL cams and exhaust valves) MSS54HP ECU (all M3s beyond 2004 have it) CSL SMG software, Recaro seats, upgraded brakes, headers and Supersprint 'street' exhaust, CSL anti roll bars, alcantara steering wheel, M track mode retrofit and a few more bits.

Im looking into getting a 2005 or 2006 so it should already have the MSS54HP ECU. Questions:
Would I need a DSC reflash and the CSL SMG software even if the car is a M3 CS?
Is the M3 CS suspension the same as the M3 CSL?


The OEM CSL carbon airbox - installed and tuned by Evolve. Works exactly like on the CSL... perfect and smooth idle and start up. Highly recommended modification. :thumbs:


Im going to have to get in touch with Evolve, I keep hearing good things about them.
Thanks


For the flap to work, you need to retrofit wiring loom and install the CSL software on MSS54HP ECU. The diagrams are available but i can dig it out for you.


Does the wiring loom come with the CSL intake? Im lost on this.
When you say CSL software are you referring to the Alpha N or something else?
If its not to much of a bother to dig them up, I would really like to check them out, very interesting.
Thank you. :beer:

Because they always break and serve no purpose other than to lower noise :thumbs:

Oh, I see. Well that sucks.
Thanks for the insight. :beer:

[Rutkowski]

Max - why bother with an expensve M3 CS 2005 / 2006 for? Just change the steering rack and reflash the ECU with CSL ECU / SMG ECU software.

The DSC / M track mode software / retrofit is very easy but use M3 CS algorithm. CSL one is tuned for lighter, stiffer car - the software is different. The ABS software is different and no good to a standard M3.... unless of course -unless you'e going to totally replicate every single thing... but it makes no sense tbh.

If you're interested - i have researched this subject very, very well and don't mind sharing the knowledge.

First off - what will you use the car for? Track days? Mixture of track days / road? or you just fancy having a CSL?

I have decided to install all the best CSL bits but leave the toys and comforts. I'm even wondering if i should put back my standard M3 seats but re - trim them so the top looks like the seats from an M6. I drive so little and when i do - it's a road.... but i do like this sprty car feeling the Recar seats give you..... i'm still undecided.

I have Recaros but was thinking of Recaro Sportster CS (the BMW Performance ones)

I'll dig some diagrams for you. I've got all the original E46 M3 options bought and ready to install too. Also little things like 5000K xenons, illuminated door sills, Alpine iPod connections, JL sound upgrade, blutooth and so on and on. Loads of other things in short.

[_Nathan_]

Got to be miles easier to get in to a CS that to buy a new ECU, get it coded, new steering rack new DSC module (extra pin I believe?), new steering wheel panel, all the labour, CSL brakes already on it.

Got to be a much, much easier and cheaper starting point, also retain value better, if for example you spend money upgrading the ECU to a later one you may as well burn that money as far as getting anything back come resale.

[Rutkowski]

Got to be miles easier to get in to a CS that to buy a new ECU, get it coded, new steering rack new DSC module (extra pin I believe?), new steering wheel panel, all the labour, CSL brakes already on it.

Got to be a much, much easier and cheaper starting point, also retain value better, if for example you spend money upgrading the ECU to a later one you may as well burn that money as far as getting anything back come resale.

all 2004 onwards M3s have CSL ECU.

DSC is the same from 2003 onwards on all M3s too.

Steering rack is a 3 hour labour plus £900 for parts.

Coding - 1 hour jobbie.

Brakes - who wants stock brakes anyway?

2003 facelift is still £10000 cheaper than a CS one....

[_Nathan_]

By your own admission 2003 wouldn't have the right ECU.

How much is the difference between a 2004 and a early CS? Remember that you'll see back a percentage of the difference come sale time where as you'll see back around zero percent on new steering racks and ECUs. DSC still requires a wire running to pin 28 switching to earth and the steering wheel requires effort on that part too, along with replacement with a suede one, all these little parts and a few hours here and there add up and don't add any value to the car.

16995 before haggling gets you in to a leggy CS from a dealer, find me a 2003 facelift M3 with the same miles on it (88k) for 6995 from a dealer and I'll buy it, from what I can see the difference is far less, and you'd have a car worth more than buying the old one and modifying it?

[///Max]

Max - why bother with an expensve M3 CS 2005 / 2006 for? Just change the steering rack and reflash the ECU with CSL ECU / SMG ECU software.

The DSC / M track mode software / retrofit is very easy but use M3 CS algorithm. CSL one is tuned for lighter, stiffer car - the software is different. The ABS software is different and no good to a standard M3.... unless of course -unless you'e going to totally replicate every single thing... but it makes no sense tbh.

If you're interested - i have researched this subject very, very well and don't mind sharing the knowledge.

First off - what will you use the car for? Track days? Mixture of track days / road? or you just fancy having a CSL?

I have decided to install all the best CSL bits but leave the toys and comforts. I'm even wondering if i should put back my standard M3 seats but re - trim them so the top looks like the seats from an M6. I drive so little and when i do - it's a road.... but i do like this sprty car feeling the Recar seats give you..... i'm still undecided.

I have Recaros but was thinking of Recaro Sportster CS (the BMW Performance ones)

I'll dig some diagrams for you. I've got all the original E46 M3 options bought and ready to install too. Also little things like 5000K xenons, illuminated door sills, Alpine iPod connections, JL sound upgrade, blutooth and so on and on. Loads of other things in short.

My M3 has close to 115,000 miles so I was planning on selling it in the future anyways, so I might as well get an M3 CS. Plus my car is not SMG.

Ok, so as far as software, if Im understanding correctly, I will need:
SMG software
DSC software
M Track mode software
Alpha N software
CSL software on the ECU
Correct me if Im wrong or am missing something.

Im always interested in learning anything about the CSL. :beer:

More than likely it will just be on the road, but you never know, I may take it to the track.

I say keep the Recaros, unless it gets really cold then put in the standard ones to use the heated seats. :thumbs:

I just looked up those Recaro Sportster CS seats on the web, very nice. :drool:

Thanks, I really appreciate it. :thumbs:

Got to be miles easier to get in to a CS that to buy a new ECU, get it coded, new steering rack new DSC module (extra pin I believe?), new steering wheel panel, all the labour, CSL brakes already on it.

Got to be a much, much easier and cheaper starting point, also retain value better, if for example you spend money upgrading the ECU to a later one you may as well burn that money as far as getting anything back come resale.

You and I think alike my friend. :beer: Plus my car is not a SMG and that is a must on this project. Im also thinking like Rutkowski where I would like it to have some comfort options like nav/ heated seats/ HK/ rear sunshade/ headlamp washers/ and PDC (which comes with the SMG option here in the states). That way if I want to change the car back to normal, I would not be stuck with a plain M3. Also, it is much easier to remove some of these options like the nav and rear sunshade rather than installing them later. ;)

[cantfind1]

What's this about a DSC reflash on a standard M3?

What does it do? Is the DSC different on the CSL/CS/M3?

Not that I drive with it on anyway!

Cheers:thumbs:

[_Nathan_]

M Track mode.

CSL ABS is different too - guess the thresholds are higher to allow for cup tyres?

[cntrvrsy]

What's the usual emissions test procedure for the CSL owners? As it's looking now, the Alpha-N conversion required to run a CSL box will not pass OBDII emissions testing in the states. Some states and even some counties within a state have different mandates but if you're car is required to be tested through the OBD port, it won't pass. I hope a way around that is found because that's the only real thing holding me back from converting to the CSL airbox :(.

[_Nathan_]

Emissions in UK is just probe into exhaust (or the exhaust of another car altogether if your MOT station is so inclined).

[Rutkowski]

All in all Nathan - I've calculated that CSL steering rack incl. labour to fit, M track mode (which you could well do yourself) steering wheel in alcantara, M3 CS - DSC and ABS reflash (due to quicker steering ratio) + MSS54HP ECU, all comes down to £2200 max.

2003 E46 M3 can be found for around £11'000.00 and if costs is an issue then surely the extra monies could be spent to buy second hand APs, CSL bootlid, rear difuser and maybe a slightly damaged front bumper. ;)

Turning standard M3 into a CSL is quite expensive and costs add up bloody quick!!

Most of the things i bought for my M3 are second hand (in a vey good condition... but the CSL bumper!! :hahaha: ) and my modifications now costs more than whole of the car is worth..... which reminds me, i still haven't done the cracking rear subframe nor the recall on SMG relay module.... :banghead:

[_Nathan_]

Agree to disagree then buddy, I don't think you could do all the work for that including labour and even if you could that is a couple of grand you'll never see back and more hassle.

My car is probably worth less than I've spent in mods too :D

[Bounce]

Emissions in UK is just probe into exhaust (or the exhaust of another car altogether if your MOT station is so inclined).:hahaha::hahaha:

[Rutkowski]

Agree to disagree then buddy, I don't think you could do all the work for that including labour and even if you could that is a couple of grand you'll never see back and more hassle.

My car is probably worth less than I've spent in mods too :D

I said that because i have a quote for that much Nathan. I'm doing this to my M3. ;) :thumbs:

As for your car - i'd love to see the finish product... any pics buddy?

[_Nathan_]

So a new ECU, Steering wheel and steering rack fitted and reprogrammed for 2.2k inc vat? Hmm, useful info.

Mine'll never be finished, nature of the beast.

http://ingsy.zenfolio.com/img/s8/v10/p982217364-3.jpg

[Rutkowski]

So a new ECU, Steering wheel and steering rack fitted and reprogrammed for 2.2k inc vat? Hmm, useful info.

Mine'll never be finished, nature of the beast.

http://ingsy.zenfolio.com/img/s8/v10/p982217364-3.jpg

cash job and the steering wheel done in alcantara. :thumbs:

looking good there! :thumbs:

[glendog74]

So a new ECU, Steering wheel and steering rack fitted and reprogrammed for 2.2k inc vat? Hmm, useful info.

Mine'll never be finished, nature of the beast.

http://ingsy.zenfolio.com/img/s8/v10/p982217364-3.jpg

Would look better with red wheels :whistle:

;)

[///Max]

Ok, so as far as software upgrade from an M3 CS to and M3 CSL I will need:

SMG software
DSC software
ABS software
M Track Mode software
Alpha N software
"CSL Software" for the ECU (Is all the above included in the "CSL Software" or is there more missing other than the above listed? Im confused on this one.)

I though all the above were the same between the CS and the CSL other than Alpha N. Correct me if Im wrong or if I am missing something.

Thanks for your help.

Andy Max

[Rutkowski]

Ok, so as far as software upgrade from an M3 CS to and M3 CSL I will need:

SMG software
DSC software
ABS software
M Track Mode software
Alpha N software
"CSL Software" for the ECU (Is all the above included in the "CSL Software" or is there more missing other than the above listed? Im confused on this one.)

I though all the above were the same between the CS and the CSL other than Alpha N. Correct me if Im wrong or if I am missing something.

Thanks for your help.

Andy Max

I you bought M3 CS then you'd only need engine ECU software assuming, you changed the camshafts for CSL ones or Schricks 288 / 280 and SMG ECU software, that's all. :thumbs:
ABS algorithms are totally different for CSL and CS - don't do it.

[///Max]

I you bought M3 CS then you'd only need engine ECU software assuming, you changed the camshafts for CSL ones or Schricks 288 / 280 and SMG ECU software, that's all. :thumbs:
ABS algorithms are totally different for CSL and CS - don't do it.

Sweet! And yes I will be changing cams to CSL cams and CSL intake. So SMG and engine ECU software, got it.

When you say engine ECU software, are you referring to the Alpha N software? Just wanna make sure we're on the same page.

Thanks.

[Rutkowski]

Sweet! And yes I will be changing cams to CSL cams and CSL intake. So SMG and engine ECU software, got it.

When you say engine ECU software, are you referring to the Alpha N software? Just wanna make sure we're on the same page.

Thanks.

install intake + camshafts

then install Alpha - N and CSL engine software which has a totally different mapping for the engine compared to standard M3, due to the fact the CSL camshafts are longer duration.

Will you change exhaust valves too?

[///Max]

install intake + camshafts

then install Alpha - N and CSL engine software which has a totally different mapping for the engine compared to standard M3, due to the fact the CSL camshafts are longer duration.

Will you change exhaust valves too?

Ok so intake, cams, Alpha N, SMG software and engine CSL software, I got it!

I was told that the intake valves are different and would need them to have the cams run properly. So I was planning on changing those. I didn't know if the exhaust valves are different too. Are they? If they are, I might as well get them too.

Thanks.

[Rutkowski]

Ok so intake, cams, Alpha N, SMG software and engine CSL software, I got it!

I was told that the intake valves are different and would need them to have the cams run properly. So I was planning on changing those. I didn't know if the exhaust valves are different too. Are they? If they are, I might as well get them too.

Thanks.

As far as i know it's only the exhaust valves that are different. It's best to check realoem.com then. :thumbs:

[///Max]

As far as i know it's only the exhaust valves that are different. It's best to check realoem.com then. :thumbs:

Will do. Thank you sir.

[///Max]

As far as i know it's only the exhaust valves that are different. It's best to check realoem.com then. :thumbs:

You are correct. The exhaust valves are different but the intake valves are the same according to realoem.com. Refer to parts 6 and 7.

CSL's valve train:
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BL95&mospid=50641&btnr=11_3006&hg=11&fg=25

M3's valve train:
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BL93&mospid=47714&btnr=11_3006&hg=11&fg=25

Thanks for the help. :thumbs:

[double_r]

You are correct. The exhaust valves are different but the intake valves are the same according to realoem.com. Refer to parts 6 and 7.

CSL's valve train:
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BL95&mospid=50641&btnr=11_3006&hg=11&fg=25

M3's valve train:
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BL93&mospid=47714&btnr=11_3006&hg=11&fg=25

Thanks for the help. :thumbs:


Sorry Max, I got the info mixed up between which valves were different

[///Max]

Sorry Max, I got the info mixed up between which valves were different

No need to apologize, brother. I know you were trying to help me out. It's all good. :)

[Rutkowski]

You are correct. The exhaust valves are different but the intake valves are the same according to realoem.com. Refer to parts 6 and 7.

CSL's valve train:
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BL95&mospid=50641&btnr=11_3006&hg=11&fg=25

M3's valve train:
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BL93&mospid=47714&btnr=11_3006&hg=11&fg=25

Thanks for the help. :thumbs:

Happy modding then Max!! :thumbs: :supz:

[///Max]

happy modding then max!! :thumbs: :supz:

Yes sir! Don't mind if I do. And with this post I'm officially Mode S1 - Starting Out. :)

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

I would not bother with the CSL Exhaust valves.

So long as your existing S54 Exhaust Valves are in
good condition, I would have them triple cut and the
results would be the same if not better.

The CSL Exhaust valves were 'optimised' ie cut/shaped
to allow better exhaust flow for the slightly longer
duration CSL Cams.

Rather than the CSL Cams why not go for Schrick Cams
at 288/280 with the 1mm longer duration which would
allow the retention of the Vanos, set of solid lifters, nice
set of uprated valves springs to stop valve float, with
well matched Titanium Retainers to lighten up the valve
train and see a true real world 360 BHP + rather than
all these mythical Dyno ones.

Downside is you have to add about another
7/8000 USD to your project build.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[///Max]

Hi,

I would not bother with the CSL Exhaust valves.

So long as your existing S54 Exhaust Valves are in
good condition, I would have them triple cut and the
results would be the same if not better.

The CSL Exhaust valves were 'optimised' ie cut/shaped
to allow better exhaust flow for the slightly longer
duration CSL Cams.

Rather than the CSL Cams why not go for Schrick Cams
at 288/280 with the 1mm longer duration which would
allow the retention of the Vanos, set of solid lifters, nice
set of uprated valves springs to stop valve float, with
well matched Titanium Retainers to lighten up the valve
train and see a true real world 360 BHP + rather than
all these mythical Dyno ones.

Downside is you have to add about another
7/8000 USD to your project build.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

Hmmm, very interesting. I will definitaley put this into consideration and have a look into it. Thanks for the advice. :beer:

[EVANGELOS]

my 2 cents after literally 100ths of straight line "races" is that as far as power is concerned there is NO WAY to gain a significant amount of power from the s54 ...

of course many so called tuners may claim hp gains on the dyno ... but on the road you would probably go even slower than stock !!!

we have checked nearly ALL available n/a methods from nearly ALL "tuners" ...

lately we have even checked a heavily modified s54 with higher compression , pistons , numerous Schrick camshafts (from 288 up to 304) , Schrick retainers , strengthened valve spinrgs , csl airbox etc ...

the results is that even that will go head to head with mine which is just an "alpha-n" with an MK airbox and 1460 kg ;) ...

as for csl's in my current "specs" I must say that I am quite faster ... on a straight line that is !!!

the only modification that I would suggest for a "regular" M3 after all that testing for the last 3 years is

shedding weight , a shorter final diff and a lightweight flywheel ... the "alpha-n" conversion and a higher rev limiter is of course not a bad idea as well

[_Nathan_]

Kms get good power out of them, 420bhp NA, problem is the warranty / rebuild interval is measured in hours.

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

Quote-

from the s54 ...

of course many so called tuners may claim hp gains on the dyno ... but on the road you would probably go even slower than stock !!!

we have checked nearly ALL available n/a methods from nearly ALL "tuners" ...

lately we have even checked a heavily modified s54 with higher compression , pistons , numerous Schrick camshafts (from 288 up to 304) , Schrick retainers , strengthened valve spinrgs , csl airbox etc ...

the results is that even that will go head to head with mine which is just an "alpha-n" with an MK airbox and 1460 kg ...

as for csl's in my current "specs" I must say that I am quite faster ... on a straight line that is !!!

the only modification that I would suggest for a "regular" M3 after all that testing for the last 3 years is

shedding weight , a shorter final diff and a lightweight flywheel ... the "alpha-n" conversion and a higher rev limiter is of course not a bad idea as well


Not sure I follow what your saying here.

You posted your concerns that your ECU was not making
fuel adaptions / trimming which would be required in
order to make real gains with the S54 Vanos optimised,
as in the CSL, and now your saying that even highly
tuned cars are not as fast as yours ?

While I believe that tunning the S54 to some of the alleged
numbers is cloud cuckoo land, its on par with saying that a
N type Map with a Carbon Airbox and nothing else produces
a S54 that is better than a CSL ?

Correct me if I am wrong, but that is what you are saying.

Where did BMW go so wrong, I mean all they had to do
to go racing themselves was take a stock S54, fit an
MK Carbon Airbox, a bastardised N Type Map, leave the stock
cams in there, not even optimise the Vanos, and hey presto they
have a winner !!

This is just pure Monkey business to a primate.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[Rutkowski]

Losing some weight is always a winner and this includes the driver. :thumbs:

I am begining to think that Carbon Airbox and 100cell cats are the only things worth doing to S54... anymore and it is a big £££ for a few BHP...

To make a better use of what you already have is to upgrade suspension and brakes... and Drexler LSD? :)

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

I have always maintained on many posts
that to get much above 360 BHP on a S54
is really big money for maybe 20/30 BHP
if your really lucky.

People seem to forget that some of
these Race engine numbers are not
only 50k plus in parts, but they are around
1500/2000 Km in life.

Many stock S54's do not even make
320 BHP from the factory, and CSL's
are more like 330-340 than its claimed 360.

To get an alleged 360 BHP on standard Cam profile
with a better volume intake and N type map
is not living in the real world.

A N type map and a carbon box is not 40bhp on
a stock S54, well only if your selling them.

Dyno figures have so many variables that
there almost irrelevent.

4.1 Diff suits the engine rev band/ Gearbox ratios
a little better, but does not really make the car a lot quicker.

There's a Drexler diff in my CSL, while its very good for Track
its not really suited to everyday driving.


Regards,

The Gorilla.

[shimmy]

Power pulleys :smokin:


Nuff said!

[Rutkowski]

Hi,

I have always maintained on many posts
that to get much above 360 BHP on a S54
is really big money for maybe 20/30 BHP
if your really lucky.

People seem to forget that some of
these Race engine numbers are not
only 50k plus in parts, but they are around
1500/2000 Km in life.

Many stock S54's do not even make
320 BHP from the factory, and CSL's
are more like 330-340 than its claimed 360.

To get an alleged 360 BHP on standard Cam profile
with a better volume intake and N type map
is not living in the real world.

A N type map and a carbon box is not 40bhp on
a stock S54, well only if your selling them.

Dyno figures have so many variables that
there almost irrelevent.

4.1 Diff suits the engine rev band/ Gearbox ratios
a little better, but does not really make the car a lot quicker.

There's a Drexler diff in my CSL, while its very good for Track
its not really suited to everyday driving.


Regards,

The Gorilla.

My M3 made close to 340bhp proven with well over 100 dyno tests and over a course of 3 years. I added carbon airbox and a remap from Evolve. I believe the 360bhp power figure. :thumbs:

Another good power improver would be the 'Okada' stuff and power pulleys perhaps?

[shimmy]

100




You are a mentalist

[Rutkowski]

100




You are a mentalist

yes. :whistle:

[glendog74]

I believe anything i am told... :whistle:

[EVANGELOS]

Hi,

Not sure I follow what your saying here.

You posted your concerns that your ECU was not making
fuel adaptions / trimming which would be required in
order to make real gains with the S54 Vanos optimised,
as in the CSL, and now your saying that even highly
tuned cars are not as fast as yours ? ...

As far as the hp gains on the "regular" S54

the no fuel trimming after the mafless (alpha-n) reprog and the airbox is just something that some aftermarket programmers seem to be doing so as I have explained in that post

http://www.cslregister.com/forum/showpost.php?p=87500&postcount=11

the main problem with "regular" M3's and maff-less proframming is that the dme takes into account on the fuel trimming adaption routine both the 02 sensors AND the maf ... so when u take out the maf it is probable that there is going to be a problem if u allow the dme to adapt ...

so they just bypass the fuel trimming ...

not the best of ideas but still u get a steady performance as long as the injectors , fuel pump etc are in perfect working condition now on the other subject

I do not say that my car is faster than highly tuned cars

I am saying that THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A HIGHLY TUNED S54

The M3 can go faster but the S54 can produce at the most 370 hp on the csl and a few LESS on the M3

Now here is a video of my car vs a csl (alexk knows the owner) ... at that time my car WAS NOT lightened and had NO airbox or alpha-n reprog but I had installed a 3.91 diff , a lightweight flywheel and a full SS exhaust.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BZ9mINH4zhY&feature

after the installement of the airbox and the alpha-n I gained a couple of a car lengths maybe more ... but mainly the engine is more consistence where as before there were various "ups and downs"




...While I believe that tunning the S54 to some of the alleged
numbers is cloud cuckoo land, its on par with saying that a
N type Map with a Carbon Airbox and nothing else produces
a S54 that is better than a CSL ?

Correct me if I am wrong, but that is what you are saying.

Where did BMW go so wrong, I mean all they had to do
to go racing themselves was take a stock S54, fit an
MK Carbon Airbox, a bastardised N Type Map, leave the stock
cams in there, not even optimise the Vanos, and hey presto they
have a winner !!

This is just pure Monkey business to a primate.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

Let me say it again ...

1) I do not claim any hp more than 360

2) What I "claim" as you say is backed by "racing" against other cars ON THE ROAD ... not by comparing hp dyno sheets on the internet

3)The main reasons that my car performs are

It Weighs aprox 1460 kg (no passanger) where as normal M3's are aprox 1570 (regardless that bmw claims that M3's weigh 1570 with 75kg passenger)

It actually produces 350-360 hp (close to a csl) where as normal M3's produce less than 330 at the best ... furthermore the dme is programmed to run up to 8400 rpm

It has a shorter rear diff 3.91 and with the csl wheels and tyre size the final drive is close to 4.00 in comparison to the 3.62 of the normal M3

It has a lightweight flywheel which as you know makes a big difference especially on the low gears due to the smaller EQUIVALENT weight

and some other smaller details

Νow the result is that the car can accelerate !!!

Some TRUE examples ...

my car vs a AA sta1.5 M3 E46 ... the s/c is of course EXTREMELY powerful ... It belongs to a close friend (alexk knows him as well) ... DUE TO EXTENSIVE wheel spinning as a result of the extreme power ... I am faster from a stand still (or from 30kph) up to 200 kph ... of course if we race from a higher gear (where the s/c does not spin) I am humiliated

my car vs 335 stage1 (380hp) ... (again alexk knows him) ... my M3 is faster all the way

etc etc ...

On the other hand we have many examples of "so called tuned" M3's that INSTEAD of weigh shedding and revving concentrate on POWER and the end result is sadly DISAPPOINTING ...

I really cannot understand how people believe that you can produce 390-400 etc hp from a 3.246cc n/a engine WITHOUT race components (like on the P54)

So NO the BMW has not failed ... all I claim is that a light normal M3 with a couple of correct modifications ca go fast on a straight line ...

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

Evangelos- but you did say-

''as for csl's in my current "specs" I must say that I am quite faster ... on a straight line that is !!!

So your view of tuning the S54 although very similar to what I
have always maintained, you are saying that your lightened
car even though still heavier than a std CSL, and with less power than
a ''good' CSL engine, some have made a tad above 360, is quicker.

As for the video of your car, if you watch very carefully you can
just see Stevie Wonder getting out of the other car's drivers seat.

Still a load of old Moneky business.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[EVANGELOS]

Hi,

Evangelos- but you did say-

''as for csl's in my current "specs" I must say that I am quite faster ... on a straight line that is !!!

So your view of tuning the S54 although very similar to what I
have always maintained, you are saying that your lightened
car even though still heavier than a std CSL, and with less power than
a ''good' CSL engine, some have made a tad above 360, is quicker...

I am saying what happens on the road ... now the result of course is not MAGICAL !!! ...

Yourself , like a lot of people consider that the only way to go faster is to gain power !!!

On the other hand the experience has proven that especially for the s54 this is futile ... the ACTUAL gains from what I have described on my previous post are much more tangible ON THE ROAD compared with IMAGINARY hp gains

In my current setup I weigh 40-60 kg more than a csl (compared to 140-160 more of a fully stocked M3) BUT the gains from the diff , the rev limiter and the other mods are as it shows in real life bigger !!!

Now I really have no argument with you ... what I say is proven in real life situations with actual cars ... it's your choice to believe that I get my kicks by posting various imaginary situations ... the reason that I have posted the specific examples is that my friend Alexk actually knows ALL of them in person (since he too used to live in Athens)


...As for the video of your car, if you watch very carefully you can
just see Stevie Wonder getting out of the other car's drivers seat.

Still a load of old Moneky business.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

Now this is just pathetic !!!

The csl was owned by a close friend both of me and alexk's also named Alex ...

just because you have never bothered to actually try and test your car against other cars ... and choose to believe that things work one way just because the reasoning in your head say's so ... doesn't make everybody else a liar !!! ... on the other hand it is your prerogative to stay in the dark believing that csl's are magical cars that are impossible to out-accelerate ...

I have a tremendous respect for csl's and truly believe that their overall performance (especially on a track) is excellent ... but that has nothing to do with the topic in question

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

Evangelos- your now even speaking for me !!!!!

Quote-

''Yourself , like a lot of people consider that the only way to go faster is to gain power !!!''

It sure it does help though.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[EVANGELOS]

csl is the epitome of the argument that you can go faster with less power ... I thought you would have grasped that point by now since you own one ...

anyway lets not make it into an argument and you start mentioning monkeys and blind singers again :D

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

Evangelos- your video shows 2 cars going under a
bridge with their lights on.
I do this many times some evenings.

So lets end this nosense and you stop making
claims about a 8400 rpm limit on a stock
S54 Valve train.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[EVANGELOS]

Hi,

Evangelos- your video shows 2 cars going under a
bridge with their lights on.
I do this many times some evenings.

So lets end this nosense and you stop making
claims about a 8400 rpm limit on a stock
S54 Valve train.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH this is funny !!!!

ok ok ... The only thing I can do is to tell you to ask my friends

nick///m3 http://www.cslregister.com/forum/member.php?u=512

and

alexk http://www.cslregister.com/forum/member.php?u=380

who both know exactly my car to ensure you that I do not lie !!!


hahahahahahha that's a first !!!! ...

it is very funny u know to have someone telling you that what has happened or is happening everyday with your car is actually NOT happening

because it changes his whole perspective on cars and (who knows) maybe life as a whole

hahahahhahahaha

grow up man ...

[glendog74]

There's clearly a misunderstanding here... Language barrier perhaps.

Lets all be friends! :smt055

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

Evangelos- 8400 rpm on stock S54 valve
train, super, please tell how this is possible ?

And more to the point what use it is on
a stock s54 ?

Stock S54 Torque curve is already falling away
quickly at 7000 rpm so what use is a 8400 rpm limit ?

BMW MS conceed that valve float will and
does occur at 8250 rpm on stock S54
Valve train, and if you don't belive me
Evangelos, then you can phone, or in
your case, ask a friend.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[EVANGELOS]

I have nothing personal with Gorilla or anyone else ... anyway let me elaborate on ALL that is being asked/doubted

1)rev limiter ... there is no reason why I should lie about that ... the engine on my car is (apart from the airbox) stock ... valves , valve springs , retainers etc are all stock ... and still I rev it up to 8400 rpm

Now as far as WHY this is better ... most people think that the usable rev-width ends when power starts decreasing (like my friend Gorilla)

This is FAR FROM THE TRUTH ... the way to understand the best point of gear change and thus the usable rev width is the following:

You transform a simple "hp vs revs" dyno chart to a "hp vs speed" (for every gear)

as in the jpeg that follows

http://img855.imageshack.us/f/hpvsspeed.jpg/http://img855.imageshack.us/f/hpvsspeed.jpg/http://img855.imageshack.us/f/hpvsspeed.jpg/

Then u see where the power curve from a gear intersects with the power curve from the next gear ... and this is the optimum point of gear change ... and this defines the maximum revs that are "usable" at any gear ...

In the S54 although the power curve does not necessarily peak at the rev limiter the decrease is not enough so as not to change as high as possible ...

Of course this does NOT mean that if u could rev up to lets say 9000 or more it would still be usable ... but up to 8400 it sure is ...

Secondly ... is it safe to rev up to 8400 rpm on a stock valve train ???

Surely it less safe than the stock 8000 rpm ...

but 3 years and more of revving up to 8400 on occasion (of course I do not rev up to 8400 all the time) has proven pretty safe both on mine and MANY other cars that have presented no problems what so ever ... I would very much like to see though any official documentation verifying that above 8150 valve floating does occur

2)Claims of being faster than other cars ... My aim was not to gloat about my car ... it was simply to point out that there is NO reason to install very expensive aftermarket products on the s54 (like cams or valve springs or higher compression pistons etc) ... the end result has time and again proven to be NOT satisfactory since it is IMPOSSIBLE to raise significantly the specific hp output ratio of the s54 without using racing components (as in the p54 for instance)

All I tried to explain (using very true examples and videos of very true street racing with very true cars) was that the M3 CAN GO FASTER but the way IS NOT TO INCREASE POWER since this is limited to 360-370 hp at the most ...

Now since you don't know me and since what I say, I agree, is contrary to the common belief on various forums where the main discussion is "WANT TO GO FASTER = MORE POWER" , I expected that people would find it strange and out of place ...

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

Evangelos- I have no issues with you, but when
you start making assumptions about what I
do or have supposed to said or believe, then I do.

Its a know fact that to exceed the specificed
safe Rev limit of any engine will increase
dynamic load upon the componets.

A rule of thumb is that for every 250 rpm
over the specified rev limit you increase
component stress via load by a further 50%.

Thus at 8500 rpm your doubling the stress
factors into the components.

Therefore to rev a stock S54 given the Torque
drop off does not much more than radically increase
component wear.

There is nothing to gain in revving a stock S54 engine
from say 8 upto 8400 rpm, no matter what airbox or
software you have.

Regards,

The Gorilla.


cut

[shimmy]

I believe anything i am told... :whistle:

So does Matt!:whistle:

[mattCSLnut]

So does Matt!:whistle:
... Matt who ? :blalalala:

[shimmy]

Anyway, my car is faster than his. Honestly. It really is. I've go a video of me overtaking him. Really I have. I'll show you if you want. Ask Nick. Want his mobile?

I think we have drifted onto another forum - I go to Spa and come back and we all are street racing..........


Anyway, what's this about blowing engines up with higher rev limits :whistle:

[mattCSLnut]

Anyway, my car is faster than his. Honestly. It really is. I've go a video of me overtaking him. Really I have. I'll show you if you want. Ask Nick. Want his mobile?

I think we have drifted onto another forum - I go to Spa and come back and we all are street racing..........


Anyway, what's this about blowing engines up with higher rev limits :whistle:

:hahaha: :hahaha: :thumbs:

[EVANGELOS]

hehehe ... rulz of thumb on metal stress and joking around !!! ... nice ... as if I have anything to gain from all that ... sorry guys 4 messing with your sacred views on the M3's and S54 ... hahahahaha

[shimmy]

hehehe ... rulz of thumb on metal stress and joking around !!! ... nice ... as if I have anything to gain from all that ... sorry guys 4 messing with your sacred views on the M3's and S54 ... hahahahaha

It's not sacred............












Just faster than any plain old M3. :smokin:

[azrael]

Time to bust this out :-D

[phoenixcsl]

WTF is this thread all about?! its gone bonkers, it started off alright and now it's turned into a my car is faster than your car cos my mate said so thread.

It's digressed massively from the original post.

Shim's right, maybe we all logged into m3cookies this morning by mistake...

[glendog74]

"Mummy, make the bad man stop..." :bigcry:

[Rutkowski]

It's not sacred............












Just faster than any plain old M3. :smokin:

stop picking on foreigners!! :hahaha: ;)

[Rutkowski]

and for the record, M6 kills any CSLs and M3 on the straight... just thought you all should know. :hahaha: :gayfight:

[mattCSLnut]

"Mummy, make the bad man stop..." :bigcry:
:hahaha: :hahaha: :hahaha:

[glendog74]

and for the record, M6 kills any CSLs and M3 on the straight... just thought you all should know. :hahaha: :gayfight:

I should think so too with that V10 POWAHH!!! :clown: ;)

[Rutkowski]

I should think so too with that V10 POWAHH!!! :clown: ;)

stop encouraging me to post M6 vids please!! next time just ignore me... :hahaha: :hahaha: :hahaha:

997 Turbo vs M6 :gayfight:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_GK03w2xTM

[SpineOnABap]

and for the record, M6 kills any CSLs and M3 on the straight... just thought you all should know. :hahaha: :gayfight:

Yeah... kills them with it's ugliness :birdman:

:thumbs:

[glendog74]

stop encouraging me to post M6 vids please!! next time just ignore me... :hahaha: :hahaha: :hahaha:


:bigcry: :hahaha: :hahaha:

Yeah... kills them with it's ugliness :birdman:

:thumbs:

:thumbs: :hahaha: :hahaha:

[Rutkowski]

Yeah... kills them with it's ugliness :birdman:

:thumbs:

LMFAO! ... i won't reply neither here nor there but i have to comment on the M6 post!! Elliot man, since you have gone all soft on us and drive M3 E92 DCT now, i thought you'd 'get' the M6 by now! :hahaha:

here's one for ya;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vySMeqSH_Ds&playnext=1&list=PLBD63CF5E6A7E5C86

[SpineOnABap]

Haha :thumbs:

:clown:

[Rutkowski]

Haha :thumbs:

:clown:

:hahaha:

:clown: