help (rear subframe bushes or something else..)

[7.77]

so:

my rear bushes (powerflex for the subframe and RTAB, and bmw's for the others) have been replaced for the ring/spa trip in May.

since, i have a bad feeling of the balance of the car: my car is shaking/rolling from right to left. something like a play somewhere at the back. When i drive hard on corner, after big roll, when the car is on the suspension, it is okay. but when i change corner, there is a big movment of the car till the car is on the suspension, and after it is ok. I run PSS10 (1.5 years old), position 10 (harder). I have checked the suspension and it is ok.

i think the play comes from the rear subframe
i decided to have the subframe powerflex replaced by oem.

same problem.

please see the pictures (rear/top subframe bushe) and tell me if they are fitted in the right way:

powerflex

http://7.77.free.fr/powerflex.JPG

look at the gap at the top ??

oem (i can see the rear subframe moving when i lift the car):

http://7.77.free.fr/oem.JPG


http://7.77.free.fr/oem1.JPG

if i compare with this subframe (taking on the web), they seems to be fitted on the wrong way)

http://7.77.free.fr/subframe.jpeg

please help me :(

[AlexGTT]

Hope it's not this 7.77 but have you had the back floor subframe mount points checked for the dreaded cracks. Contact Simpson Motorsport or a specialist you trust. They will tell you exactly where to look to identify the cracking points.

Hope it's not this but they will all do it sooner or later, depending on how hard the car is used.:(

[NZ_M3]

They are fitted the right way around - the photo of the subframe on the floor is upside down.

So let me try and get what you are saying - are you saying that through corner changes and you load the suspension up (say the left side) and then as you transition into the next corner (now the right side) the rear end feels lose? Are there any unusual noise as you go through this transition?

Sounds almost to me like that suspension is running out of rebound (typical of PSS10 - they have a very short range rebound compared to the progressive damping valving).

For rear subframe mount - Check the boot and see if any of the seals have cracked, then jack up the car and check the front left mount point and the rear right (those are the first ones to crack) - best to drop the subframe to check, as initial cracks form under the bushes.

Check your swaybar mount too, something might be lose or worn there.

[7.77]

So let me try and get what you are saying - are you saying that through corner changes and you load the suspension up (say the left side) and then as you transition into the next corner (now the right side) the rear end feels lose? Are there any unusual noise as you go through this transition?

exactly, but no noise. the problem is between 2 loads of suspension, even on straight roads, the car is shaking

Sounds almost to me like that suspension is running out of rebound (typical of PSS10 - they have a very short range rebound compared to the progressive damping valving).

For rear subframe mount - Check the boot and see if any of the seals have cracked, then jack up the car and check the front left mount point and the rear right (those are the first ones to crack) - best to drop the subframe to check, as initial cracks form under the bushes.

i havn't seen any cracks

Check your swaybar mount too, something might be lose or worn there

will change the swaybar links and rubber. something strange: nothing before changing the bushes !!

[AlexGTT]

7.77, the floor cracks are very hard to see. You have to look in very specific places, which is why I recommend you speak to someone who can at least send you precise pictures of where the cracks can be seen with the subframe on. Of course, to really check you have to remove the subframe.

I'll try and link the thread which has some good info and pictures of a car having this fixed.

[7.77]

everything was ok before changing the bushes.

i had the same problem when i first drive the car with the pss10, it was on the smoothest position (1). I just turned on position10 and it was okay. Do you think the dampers could be worn ? even with no leak and good when moving them with my hand ?

look at the roll of the car :mad:

http://7.77.free.fr/12e.jpeg

http://7.77.free.fr/12g.jpg

http://7.77.free.fr/12d.jpeg


http://7.77.free.fr/12c.jpg

[AlexGTT]

I hope it's just a set-up issue but always worth a very good look. I get mine inspected each time my specialist sees the car.

Is the car rolling like that again now?

[7.77]

this was 10 days ago !!

i will:
give the dampers to the specialist
change the ARB bushes and link
change the rear shock mount with uprated ones


and see after.
i repeat, it was ok before changing the bushes. so i don't think of a chassis problem

[CT1]

This may seem silly but did you have the geo done after the bushes were changed?

CT

[DazBlackCSL]

Does seem to be on the roll a lot more / like standard or worse from pics, the first few def :smt102

By the way on another note, have you got some more guys for your visors, as Lee said three would make it worthwhile for printing and producing ??

Let me know as he is running our new ones for October trip, so can do your three with additions at the same time ;)

Daz

everything was ok before changing the bushes.

i had the same problem when i first drive the car with the pss10, it was on the smoothest position (1). I just turned on position10 and it was okay. Do you think the dampers could be worn ? even with no leak and good when moving them with my hand ?

look at the roll of the car :mad:

http://7.77.free.fr/12e.jpeg

http://7.77.free.fr/12g.jpg

http://7.77.free.fr/12d.jpeg


http://7.77.free.fr/12c.jpg

[DazBlackCSL]

http://7.77.free.fr/12d.jpeg

mine and Robs at same point, yes on Clubsports, but just to see if any difference in roll ?

Actually looking at it now, not really

[daniel]

PSS10s are a lot softer than the clubsports so should roll a bit more.

[glendog74]

mine and Robs at same point, yes on Clubsports, but just to see if any difference in roll ?

Actually looking at it now, not really

:hahaha:

Need to go back there please :smt055

[mattCSLnut]

Need to go back there please :smt055


October CSL Ring solutions :smt055 is only a few short months away Rob :beer:

[glendog74]

:banana::banana::banana:

[DazBlackCSL]

Ahhh :smokin: October and car back to normal ;)

[glendog74]

Ahhh :smokin: October and car back to normal ;)

Das Rite!

[AlexGTT]

October CSL Ring solutions :smt055 is only a few short months away Rob :beer:

Actually, only 1 month 7 days..................but who's counting.:whistle::beer: Let the good times roll. CHAMONE!

[shimmy]

Ahhh :smokin: October and car back to normal ;)

:smt017:smt017

[DazBlackCSL]

:smt017:smt017

Been unhappy with it since I've changed a few mods, could not get set up as I wanted car felt shit worse than standard, so been stepping back and re doing some things and settings / springy rates etc.

Car finally feels sorted again more importantly I have confidence in her again, bit like the Intrax thread, have been on a learning / testing curve for months, trying different set ups, springs , and toe in / camber etc , to suit what I want from it, and went to far one way to start with, so been trying to find the optimum since then...
:smt055

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

7.77- without seeing much its just
guess work.

Have you checked all the obvious things like-

Broken Spring , snapped drop links, dampers
are working correctlty, etc, and I would
also check your RTAB as the new Subframe bushes
if they were the harder version, would show
up other 'bushing' issues ?

New standard OEM subframe bushes are very good
so if fitted correctly then your issue is something else.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[7.77]

Hi,

7.77- without seeing much its just
guess work.

Have you checked all the obvious things like-

Broken Spring: no prob
snapped drop links: will be change next week
dampers are working correctlty: will be check tomorrow by specialist
, etc, and I would
also check your RTAB (also changed) as the new Subframe bushes
if they were the harder version, would show
up other 'bushing' issues ?

each bushes have been changed by oem (except RTAB by powerflex)

New standard OEM subframe bushes are very good
so if fitted correctly then your issue is something else.

Regards,

The Gorilla.


will change all the links/bushes of the arb + uprated choke mounts (rogue) next week and i will see.

thanks

[DazBlackCSL]

By the way on another note, have you got some more guys for your visors, as Lee said three would make it worthwhile for printing and producing ??

Let me know as he is running our new ones for October trip, so can do your three with additions at the same time ;)

Daz

Need to know if you do, so I can get Lee to run em :whistle:

[7.77]

i'm just back in france since 7 days, so didn't had any time to something.

i'll try and let you know, thanks :thumbs:

[DazBlackCSL]

i'm just back in france since 7 days, so didn't had any time to something.

i'll try and let you know, thanks :thumbs:

Cheers ;)

Well if you want them / us to bring out Oct 1 on the ring trip, then need to know a few weeks before so he can produce and run the printing :thumbs::thumbs:

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

7.77- just out of interest are the RTAB the standard
Powerflex ones or the ''Black'' Harder shore ones ?

I had the standrad Powerflex [purple] on an M5
front wishbones, and it chewed them up in about a day.

Car was then like driving as if it was on ice.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[7.77]

had the whole powerflex kit for 10 days. front didn't last than 3/4 laps in Spa (3/4 hard braking and...oh surprise.....one bush was ejected !!).

so back to the oem one (don't know the shore), except for the RTAB, fitted with a limiter kit.

do you just recommend to modifiy it: oem RTAB with just a limiter ?

[shimmy]

Been unhappy with it since I've changed a few mods, could not get set up as I wanted car felt shit worse than standard, so been stepping back and re doing some things and settings / springy rates etc.

Car finally feels sorted again more importantly I have confidence in her again, bit like the Intrax thread, have been on a learning / testing curve for months, trying different set ups, springs , and toe in / camber etc , to suit what I want from it, and went to far one way to start with, so been trying to find the optimum since then...
:smt055


:smt015













;):thumbs:


.

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

7.77- These Guys make a good limiter kit
or their Poly RTAB are in a different league
to the rubbish that Powerflex sell.

http://www.akgmotorsport.com/catalog/catalog.php?page=3&category=e46%20Suspension%2FBushings

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[NZ_M3]

except for the RTAB, fitted with a limiter kit.


There's your problem .... If you are running the Poly bushes these already have a sort of a 'limiter' built into the bushes - running a limiter kit on top of that = absolutely no lateral movement in that arm, so all the forces are transferred to other components within the suspension - i.e. the suspension isn't designed to work the way it should.

Take the limiter out - I am sure that'll solve your problems.

[7.77]

humm, seems to be a good point, so let's try !

will send you some news next week ! :supz: