WARNING !!! clocked SB CSL on eBay

[mattCSLnut]

As per title... I spotted this SB CSL FOR SALE on eBay earlier on showing 64 000 miles however almost a year ago, when I was looking myself for a CSL I looked at this one when it had 79600 on the clock. I wonder who did the clocking. The UK dealer who SOLD it to the German owner or indeed the NEW German owner :whistle: I have a printout of the PISTONHEADS ad from last year if anyone's interested. Here's the link:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2003-BMW-M3-CSL-BLACK-FSH-AP-Racing-Brakes-/200506967547?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item2eaf2585fb#ht_883wt_1139

[Bounce]

Well done Sherlock,that may save someone some tears,:thumbs:

[mattCSLnut]

Well done Sherlock,that may save someone some tears,:thumbs:
Indeed :thumbs: CSI at it's best, although someone has put in an offer already, not knowing about the mileage discrepancy :whistle:
The thing is... it was a nice car a year ago with nearly 80K miles on the clock, as it was one owner car and well looked after, with a re sprayed front end to eliminate the usual stone chips. Seems very silly to clock a nice car like that, despite it being the wrong colour ;) :hahaha:

[s.mac]

cant you report it to ebay ????

[mattCSLnut]

cant you report it to ebay ????
Good call Steve :thumbs: I've just done that :beer:

[alexk]

I think he had last year in the Swiss autoscout too !

[mattCSLnut]

I think he had last year in the Swiss autoscout too !
... and Mobile.de too :whistle: I still wonder who ? clocked it :whistle:

[shimmy]

There at loads put there who can clock a BMW

Some can even do it well enough to hide all mileage records

[sailorbaz]

Have Ebay got back to you regarding reporting it? Would be interesting to know what they would do in this situation.

Good find mate.

[mattCSLnut]

Have Ebay got back to you regarding reporting it? Would be interesting to know what they would do in this situation.

Good find mate.
They have Baz and are investigating the matter as I type this. I have also e-mail the seller who seemed oblivious to the clocking and is himself in the process of contacting the dealer in Kent who SOLD him the car last year. Here's the link to the eBay Ad: http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2003-BMW-M3-CSL-BLACK-FSH-AP-Racing-Brakes-/200506967547?cmd=ViewItem&pt=Automobiles_UK&hash=item2eaf2585fb#ht_883wt_1139
I also enclose the original PISTONHEADS Ad from a year ago below, clearly showing the true mileage of 79 600 :whistle:

[outnumbered]

What's the betting they'll just claim they made a mistake on the PH advert and it was really 67900 or something...

[mattCSLnut]

What's the betting they'll just claim they made a mistake on the PH advert and it was really 67900 or something...


If they do they'd have to say they made that mistake twice within the same Ad as it's also in the detailed description text saying: " The car has covered 79,600 miles but (the 'but' signifying the above average mileage of that CSL, then it continues) but with only one previous owner, the car has been maintained regardless of cost " . That whole sentence implies the high mileage of that car, not just by the mileage numbers :whistle:
There are other way of finding out about the mileage discrepancy too... HPi check for one, which is linked to DVLA and their MOT archives... U can have that CSL's ignition keys scanned at any official BMW centre, as the keys hold specific information about the car they belong to (including mileage) and check the service intervals by dates & mileage to see any abnormal gaps. :whistle:

[mattCSLnut]

Looks like the CLOCKED SB CSL is back in the UK and already FOR SALE :whistle: Be warned, the actual mileage of this car should be at least 25 000 miles more.

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2135679.htm

[glendog74]

They can cope well with higher miles :whistle:

[outnumbered]

The guy's still advertising it as one previous owner as well. Wonder what the real story is.

[mattCSLnut]

They can cope well with higher miles :whistle:

I should know :whistle:
It's a shame some Numpty decided to clock it :banghead: It was a clean enough car @ 79 600 when I had a look at it over a year ago.
Take a look at the state of that steering wheel though, it's screeming 100 000 miles ;) :hahaha:

[shimmy]

Take a look at the state of that steering wheel though, it's screeming 100 000 miles ;) :hahaha:

Matt

you cant go by the steering wheel as mine looked like that at 35k miles (and was replaced) and looked like it again 20k miles later

depends how its been used - but otherwise well shouted (ban the clockers):smokin:

[mattCSLnut]

The guy's still advertising it as one previous owner as well. Wonder what the real story is.

Well spotted :thumbs: It was one previous owner when I vied it down in Kent, over a year ago, before it went to Dartmount, Germany and then back to it's current UK custodial :whistle:
I'm guessing here but I think it's been passed on from one wan-a-be car dealer to another, all probably aware of it's true mileage.

[mattCSLnut]

Matt

you cant go by the steering wheel as mine looked like that at 35k miles (and was replaced) and looked like it again 20k miles later

depends how its been used - but otherwise well shouted (ban the clockers):smokin:

Used... more like abused ;) :hahaha:
BTW... I'm being humorous, hence ... ;) :hahaha:

[shimmy]

Used... more like abused ;) :hahaha:
BTW... I'm being humorous, hence ... ;) :hahaha:



ahhh, sorry the accent confused me :thumbs:

[mattCSLnut]

ahhh, sorry the accent confused me :thumbs:
:hahaha: Apology accepted ;) :hahaha:

[umran9]

My money is on ze German! The dealer has it advertised with the correct mileage...

[mattCSLnut]

My money is on ze German! The dealer has it advertised with the correct mileage...
You care to elaborate ?!?! Money on ze German! for what ??? :smt017 and which dealer do you speak off ? :smt017
The correct mileage for that car should be well over 80 000 miles by now :thumbs: not 67 000 miles.
Have a little look at the advert below of the same SB CSL, RF53 CHH from over a year ago :whistle:
Interesting first post BTW, care to introduce yourself to the rest of the gang :whistle:

[glendog74]

Interesting first post BTW, care to introduce yourself to the rest of the gang :whistle:

Indeed - were all ears...! :whistle:

[Dan]

I smell a rat here now, what a thread for your first post! :whistle:

[mattCSLnut]

Indeed - were all ears...! :whistle:
I'm on tender hooks, holding my breath over here ;) :hahaha:

[shimmy]

My money is on ze German! The dealer has it advertised with the correct mileage...


looking at the advert and my records it was "Ducati's" black CSL that was at Snett last year with the green wheels and i guess that when Matt looked at it it was still owned by him and clearly advetised in excess of 77k miles.:smokin:

[glendog74]

looking at the advert and my records

Shim 'Statzmanski'

[shimmy]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Q4tSVgUgxG4/SmaQsjY0dfI/AAAAAAAAADk/xK2id7w44Ow/s320/statto.jpg


im up to 140 cars now, but info drying up,HOW CAN I GET MTORQUE INFO

[mattCSLnut]

looking at the advert and my records it was "Ducati's" black CSL that was at Snett last year with the green wheels and i guess that when Matt looked at it it was still owned by him and clearly advetised in excess of 67k miles.:smokin:

One, quick phone call to the original owner with a couple of simple questions... "did you see the 67 000 mile mark come & go in your ownership + what was the mileage when you SOLD it on ? " Could be interesting :whistle:

[umran9]

I phoned up the dealer in the original piston head advert last year who remembers the car and told me he sold it to the guy in Germany who then advertised on ebay with lower mileage! Had to make break my virgininty on this post somewhere!:thumbs:

[mattCSLnut]

I phoned up the dealer in the original piston head advert last year who remembers the car and told me he sold it to the guy in Germany who then advertised on ebay with lower mileage! Had to make break my virgininty on this post somewhere!:thumbs:

Ahhh OK, now I understand. THANX for the clarification :thumbs: I presume you're referring to Mr. H. Fulford as the said dealer ? the same dealer who showed me the car (over a year ago). So that makes you another person who knows this CSL's genuine mileage was 79 600 over 12 months ago, before it moved back to Ze Fazerland for some mileage manipulation :whistle:
So who's going to be the bearer of bad NEWS and inform the current UK custodial, who trying to sell it with imaginary 67K miles then ? :whistle:
Welcome to the fold...

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/2135679.htm

[shimmy]

I volunteer Matt ;)

Use your best subtle approach please Matt.

(there is an add on Another forum with it as 77k prior to The owner offloading it to the dealer last year.)

[mattCSLnut]

I volunteer Matt ;)

Use your best subtle approach please Matt.

(there is an add on Another forum with it as 79k prior to The owner offloading it to the dealer last year.)

I volunteer Shimmy :whistle: the Master of subtle :smokin: and my mentor ;) :hahaha:

[Dan]

I volunteer Shimmy :whistle: the Master of subtle :smokin: and my mentor ;) :hahaha:

I'd be about as subtle as a brick so crack on Shimmy! Lol

[Nobody]

I can confirm that I know the person who bought this car. I can also confirm that it was NOT him who tampered with the mileage. After a little bit of research it was infact the German owner who clocked the CSL.

The current owner has been shafted good and proper by the previous owner who's name is Dennis and he's from Dortmund.
The current owner is obviously devastated and does not know what to do.
He bought this car in good faith and he's gutted. I've advised him to put the car onto it's correct mileage, whatever that is! and try and sell it.
He's obviously going to lose a few £££'s but there is nothing else he can do.
Can anyone on here advise if it's worth going after the previous German owner, as it's very obvious now that it's him who clocked the car and he blatantly lied to the current owner. Any advise would be appreciated and before you say it NO it's not my car.

[Dan]

IF the above is true then yes I'd be after the person who clocked it for sure!

I say that as I think things need to be taken with a pinch of salt on this thread now as it's brought a few out of the woodwork!

Sorry your mate has been turned over, a horrible situation to be in :(

[shimmy]

Tbh if he returns it to 80k miles I doubt if he'd loose much.

I'd stil try to sell it for 20k clean.

[azrael]

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_Q4tSVgUgxG4/SmaQsjY0dfI/AAAAAAAAADk/xK2id7w44Ow/s320/statto.jpg


im up to 140 cars now, but info drying up,HOW CAN I GET MTORQUE INFO

I can try speaking to Matt who founded bm3w/mtorque

[shimmy]

I can try speaking to Matt who founded bm3w/mtorque


please, but i PMed Elliott who thinks its been binned:bigcry:

[mattCSLnut]

I can confirm that I know the person who bought this car. I can also confirm that it was NOT him who tampered with the mileage. After a little bit of research it was infact the German owner who clocked the CSL.

The current owner has been shafted good and proper by the previous owner who's name is Dennis and he's from Dortmund.
The current owner is obviously devastated and does not know what to do.
He bought this car in good faith and he's gutted. I've advised him to put the car onto it's correct mileage, whatever that is! and try and sell it.
He's obviously going to lose a few £££'s but there is nothing else he can do.
Can anyone on here advise if it's worth going after the previous German owner, as it's very obvious now that it's him who clocked the car and he blatantly lied to the current owner. Any advise would be appreciated and before you say it NO it's not my car.

Hi there "Nobody"
IMHO I think it is worth going after the German seller (if you can get the German Police (local to Dennis) involved + eBay as well, as it's where this CSL was advertised. I informed Dennis, the German seller about the mileage discrepancy, he also tried to lied to me, saying he'll ask the UK seller about the mileage discrepancy, as he knew NOTHING too (Yeah Right). I also reported this item to eBay, at the same time so they knew about it too, yet did nothing to prevent the sale going through. After all, that was the whole point of this Thread.

With regards to putting the mileage back, I think it'll be the best thing for the Authenticity of the said car (since it's mileage discrepancy is so well publicized, in no small part THANX to me :smokin: ) plus trying to sell as a 67 000 mile car while being fully aware of it true, higher mileage, is highly illegal ( strangely, clocking is not, so long as it's disclaimed... go figure )
I think with it's true mileage restore it's still going to be worth minimum £20 000... maybe £22 000 on a good day (low owners and RARE colour) if & when totally detailed to a very high standard... Queue Jay :thumbs:

[azrael]

Difficult to know what the correct mileage should be... no?

[Black CSL Steve]

I had a deal with the present owner of this car........

I did a few checks and a friend in BMW said that the car had just been serviced BUT the last time any dealer see the car was back in 2007 showing 62K miles.

Had to let the owner down, feel really bad telling him the problem with the mileage but felt he had to know

Steve

[mattCSLnut]

Difficult to know what the correct mileage should be... no?

Indeed :smt087 We don't know exactly how many miles Dennis the Clocker did while the car was there for the past 12 months ... plus the car wasn't registered in Germany and stayed on it's UK palates all this time. Sounds like Dennis is a bit of a character :clown:
Just a thought but would interrogating the cars ECU show the true mileage ???

[mattCSLnut]

I had a deal with the present owner of this car........

I did a few checks and a friend in BMW said that the car had just been serviced BUT the last time any dealer see the car was back in 2007 showing 62K miles.

Had to let the owner down, feel really bad telling him the problem with the mileage but felt he had to know

Steve
At least he knows and should go back to "Dennis the Clocker" who SOLD him the car for some answers.
I remember commenting on the 2007 Service stamp when I vied it, saying the car was well & truly overdue for a service, back in September 2009... it's one of many reasons why I walked away from that car, back them.

[Nobody]

Hi there "Nobody"
IMHO I think it is worth going after the German seller (if you can get the German Police (local to Dennis) involved + eBay as well, as it's where this CSL was advertised. I informed Dennis, the German seller about the mileage discrepancy, he also tried to lied to me, saying he'll ask the UK seller about the mileage discrepancy, as he knew NOTHING too (Yeah Right). I also reported this item to eBay, at the same time so they knew about it too, yet did nothing to prevent the sale going through. After all, that was the whole point of this Thread.

With regards to putting the mileage back, I think it'll be the best thing for the Authenticity of the said car (since it's mileage discrepancy is so well publicized, in no small part THANX to me :smokin: ) plus trying to sell as a 67 000 mile car while being fully aware of it true, higher mileage, is highly illegal ( strangely, clocking is not, so long as it's disclaimed... go figure )
I think with it's true mileage restore it's still going to be worth minimum £20 000... maybe £22 000 on a good day (low owners and RARE colour) if & when totally detailed to a very high standard... Queue Jay :thumbs:


Thanks for the replies guys it's appreciated, i'm seeing the owner tonight and will let him know your thoughts.
Matt the car is currently in Birmingham and has just had a two day detail on it. I 've been told it looks stunning.
I just hope that BMW can somehow work out what the correct mileage is.
The current owner would never try to sell the car like it is knowing what he knows now.. He's not that type of guy, he's a good lad and I'm gutted for him.
It was infact Steve who broke the news to him, like he states a deal was on the table when this discovery was made.

[shimmy]

if clocked properly they do the keys (all of them) and i believe two parts of the cars ECU otherwise it could be interogated and discovered.

otherwise what tends to happen is the owner will avoid BMW dealers like the plague and just get if anything oil changes privately until they either want to sell or want to take it to the dealer at which poin they will call their man to do the business.

thoroughly dispicable act as it is just conning us all:banghead:

[mattCSLnut]

Thanks for the replies guys it's appreciated, i'm seeing the owner tonight and will let him know your thoughts.
Matt the car is currently in Birmingham and has just had a two day detail on it. I 've been told it looks stunning.
I just hope that BMW can somehow work out what the correct mileage is.
The current owner would never try to sell the car like it is knowing what he knows now.. He's not that type of guy, he's a good lad and I'm gutted for him.
It was infact Steve who broke the news to him, like he states a deal was on the table when this discovery was made.

Advise your friend to peruse Dennis the Clocker + eBay, as they have been made aware of the matter and did sweet F.A. about it, leading your friend to buy that car, through their web site. If you can get eBay on your side, they might be able to get Dennis to answer a few difficult questions... it's worth pressing, if your friend feels up to it. It all depends how your friend bought this CSL from Dennis and if he has a receipt for the SALE/ Transaction.

[_Nathan_]

Shim, think it is ecu, keys, light control module and maybe one other place, if you don't do it right you get the tamper dot showing in the dash.

[AlexGTT]

What a very sad situation.:( If anything, this episode makes our talk of a comprehensive register of the cars even more valid.

[Craig]

Isn't there also mileage data held within the SMG ECU this could well be used to find out the orig. mileage.

[shimmy]

Isn't there also mileage data held within the SMG ECU this could well be used to find out the orig. mileage.

Possibly but good clockers do the lot:(