Emission Warning Light

[fergusgo]

The emission warning light came on (amber not red) a few weeks back at 29900 miles (never been on in my 14k miles of ownership), so took it to main dealer to have it sorted. NB This was not the EML light, despite the fact that BMW insist on describing it as this on the description of goods sheet. Also car does not have the BMW insured warranty.

I was told it was just a the throttle valve switch (part B13.63.7.840.383) and charged £181 for the test and fitment of the new part.

2 weeks and 200 miles later the emission warning light comes on again (amber) so I take it straight back and ask them to sort it because I didnt think they had done the job properly in the first place. I get a call a day or two later from the service dept to tell me that it was due to a faulty Vanos. The problem was diagnosed as a "defective Vanos adjustment unit". I spoke with the technician who told me that the previous actuator issue was totally unrelated to the latest vanos issue. Naturally I was sceptical, and told him that I found that hard to believe but would have to take his word for it as they were the experts. He confirmed that was merely a unfortunate "coincidence". Should be noted that the car had NO symptoms at all of any problems only the illumination of the light, ie both times when the light was illuminated, the car felt 100% normal to me with no strange idle, engine sounded fine and the car pulled totally normally.

Over £2000 later got the car back on Wednesday of last week having fitted part B11.36.7.838.161 - Cylinder head Vanos Unit.
Car now done approx 100 miles from picking it up last week having been "fixed". Yip you've guessed it, the Emission Warning Light is back on! Again the car sounds perfect with no signs of any issues apart from the illumination of the emission warning light!

Makes me think that both of the potential problems were not actually "faults" at all. Difficulty will be in proving anything!

Car is going back in tomorrow so obviously they are going to get both barrels but looking for some ammo/assistance prior to taking it back to them:

Few questions on the back of this:

1) Coincidence or not? Any way of proving this?
2) Does the illumination of the Emission Warning Light in amber sometimes signify a Vanos issue? Thought is it was an engine part it may have been the EML light.
3) Car has sounded, driven and pulled 100% normally throughout this experience. With the vanos fault described above - is there no obvious signs of a problem apart from the illumination of the light?
4) I take it I can ask for full job specs for the work carried out including full print outs of fault codes. Should the technicians carry these out more than once to double check?
5) Can I have the "faulty" parts returned to the dealership for me to have independently verified as faulty?
6) Any ideas what the problem might be this time!?!?!

Any other assistance or advice would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

[RolyGTIR]

I had the Emissions light come on at approx 39k miles.
Took it in to my local BM Dealer - Fault diagnostics run cost £90
They cleared all the faults and sent me away - it happened again and was found
to be a Faulty Sensor (Oxygen/CO2 I believe in the exhaust system) changed under my warranty cover! (They found this on the first visit but won't change until it happens again apparently :banghead: )

Hope this helps and good luck! :thumbs:

[glendog74]

Certain after-market exhausts can also make the emissions light illuminate.

Sounds to me like they are more 'fitters' rather than 'technicians'...

[fergusgo]

Should have said that the car is totally standard with standard OEM exhaust, and no other mods at all.

[cantfind1]

Just to confirm the orange light that came on was the picture of an engine and not the letters "EML"

OK, so a faulty Vanos unit will NOT bring on the yellow engine light!! Car will just feel under powered but will still run. I had to replace my Vanos solenoid part no
11367832057. These are very common and can be tested using the diagnostic and running a vanos test. If it fails the test then it is most likely the solenoid unit which is about 400 notes from memory!

They have replaced your vanos gears as well, complete overkill this should only be done if the unit is rattling and this is extremely rare on these, even if it is rattling it is normally the bolts holding the gears to the end of the cams these bolts can be tightened and replaced! Not the whole unit. Just out of interest does the vanos unit look new???!

Sounds like to me ,you either have one of your cats on the way out or you have a dodgy lambda sensor somewhere. Could possibly be an ignition coil as well but if it is not misfiring and running fine then I doubt it.

Whoever you have taken it to are cowboys and are having it over on you for sure! Name and shame please so we can all avoid!

On a side note always ask for your old parts back when work is done, they are yours after all! These Vanos units can be refurbished at half the cost and it is worth money to you to keep it. As Mr Vanos will give you money for the non working one!

HTH

[fergusgo]

Hi cantfind1 - thanks very much just the sort of info im looking for. Yeh the EML light (ie actual EML letters) has never been on...always the emission warning light (picture of an engine).

There was never any rattling or as I say any loss of power. To me the car was (and still is) acting 100% normally except fot the fact that the emission warning light is illuminated.

The car was taken to a main BM dealer in Glasgow and was put on their diagnostigs to access the problem. 1st they told me it was a faulty actuator which was replaced and sorted the problem (when I say problem I mean that the light was off!!!) than about 150 miles later the light came back on.

Sent the car straight back to them and this time was told that the diagnostic machine had detected a faulty vanos. The whole unit was replaced and the light once again goes out, but again about 150 miles later....its back on.

Really concerned that Ive forked out almost £2500 so far for 2 problems that did not exist!!!!

The whole vanos unit has been replaced ie http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BL91&mospid=47621&btnr=11_2993&hg=11&fg=15&hl=2 . From this site it appears that the solenoid part on its own has been discontinued. Do you know if this is correct?

The main dealer is one of only 2 in Glasgow and yes will be naming and shaming if I do not get a satisfactory response tomorrow.

Finally did ask for the faulty Vanos unit but was told that it had to be sent back to BMW and that I was getting some money back because of that. No idea if the unit is new but I do know the guy who ordered it for me (a friend in the parts dept at the main dealer) so would very much suspect that it is new.

[cantfind1]

Bollocks it has to be sent back!!! Its your car part! this kills me!!

As I said in reply to your email if it's coming on after about 150 miles everytime then its defo a lambda sensor or cat problem then, as these ecu's test the cats at certain intervals by spiking the fuel and measuring the readings from the pre and post lambda sensors. The post cat Lambda s do nothing except check for correct cat operation they do not control fuel at all and only do any work when the ecu runs this test.


The solenoid unit is not discontinued I only bought one a month ago. It may not be that part number but it's definitely available separately.

Open up your bonnet and see if the alloy of the vanos unit looks newer than the alloy on the rest of the engine. If not then I would be P!ssed!
Can t see them doing something that blatant though??

[fergusgo]

Car back in this evening to have checked over for a 3rd time. They have the "faulty" Vanos unit but told me unfortunately that it would have to be put back on the car to check it. Told them not to bother it the moment cos I want to see if it can be done otherwise.
So does anyone know if this is the case or can it be checked as a standalone unit? If so who should I take it to?
They are also providing me with all diagnostic printouts including the ones that appear tomorrow when they run the latest diagnostic test. Hopefully it will be the same fault as before therefore proving that the vanos was never faulty.
Cheers

[grumps]

It might be worth suggesting that they carry out several full driving cycles ie: cold start to full hot running over several miles as sometimes emission related faults will not show (air injection and all that) unless these are carried out! they should know that a fault code is just an indication of a issue not a cure by pressing the fix button! if we replaced every part that relates to a fault code we would be out of a business! it might be worth finding a techy who actually likes diagnostics and not just chasing a bonus!

[fergusgo]

Thanks for that - Ill give them a call tomorrow morning and suggest this.

Only issue is why sould I as the lay customer be having to tell them how to do their job!! This should be what they did the 1st time the car was in, rather than charge me £2500 to fix faults that were actually never existed.

The big concern that I have is that the Vanos unit was never faulty as the car has always driven absolutely normally with no noises or loss of power. Just not sure how to prove this???

[cantfind1]

replied to your email mate.

[Thorney]

Cat or o2 sensor.

Vanos is fine. Tell them you will take the part away for testing and if it proves to be fine then you will expect a full refund and then costs of the test. Testing one involves running a car and running a full vanos test, replacing the vanos with your 'faulty' one then running the test again. We've done this a few times (primarily checking to see if second hand vanos units are ok) and it's pretty simple.

[fergusgo]

Thanks for your help guys. Spoke with Mr Vanos (Steve) today - he was really helpful.
Going to "buy" the "faulty" vanos back off the dealer then send it to him to have him check it over. He can carry out a full test without fitting on a vehicle and will only charge 20 quid or so for the test. He suspects that either nothing is wrong or it may be a solenoid problem - which is only a £400 part as opposed to the £1400 part.
Either way I win as I see it as its going to cost me £285 to get the Vanos back and say £50 including postage to get the test done. If the Vanos is not faulty then I get my £2000 back from BMW (easier said than done I suspect) if it is faulty then Steve suggests that I punt it on ebay and will get more than the total cost of buying it back plus the testing.
Appreciate all the assistance with this guys - I will let you know how I get on and yes I will name and shame the Dealer if the vanos proves to be fine. Cheers

[northernjim]

I'm really sorry to hear all this fergus, good luck with the test:beer:

I don't understand why you have to buy your old vanos back tho? it is yours isn't it?

[fergusgo]

The reason I'm having to buy it back from them is that on the original sales invoice, I have been credited £285 for the "faulty" vanos. Basically they have bought the old vanos off me for £285.

So in order for me to get my hands on it I have to buy it back from them. Its the parts department who have dealt with this and not sure if its usual practice or if they were trying to help me out by giving me something for it??

[danp]

The reason I'm having to buy it back from them is that on the original sales invoice, I have been credited £285 for the "faulty" vanos. Basically they have bought the old vanos off me for £285.

So in order for me to get my hands on it I have to buy it back from them. Its the parts department who have dealt with this and not sure if its usual practice or if they were trying to help me out by giving me something for it??

They prob get £500 back when it's sent off to be refurbed... ;-)

[shimmy]

i think all Vanos warranty replacements are reconditioned units, BMW or not

[cantfind1]

I wouldn t be surprised if the solenoid came back faulty, but I would be very surprised if the actual vanos unit is faulty!! However you still have the problem with the engine light.

Glad you are getting to the bottom of it though.

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

Out of interest how will you know its
your Vanos that is being given back
to you ?

Has it got your name or a special identification
mark on it ?

You do not seriously beleive that a Garage that
is prepared to fix expensive parts that are more than likely
OK, is then going to hand back the incriminating
part which proves they have been up to no Good ?

I will be very surprised if what you get back is
any good whatsoever, but the key point is
was it ever yours, and that I am afraid is something
I doubt you will be able to prove now.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[cantfind1]

Yep been thinking this too! But then again how likely are they to have vanos units just lying around the workshop. Dealers don t accumulate parts like that. But you never know.

[fergusgo]

Brief update....car was taken to them last Tuesday evening, as yet I have heard nothing from them. I am presuming they are struggling but either way terrible customer service! that I have not even had a call to keep me up to date.

I am friends with the guy in the parts dept who has confirmed to me that the "faulty" vanos will not be swapped or tampered with so I am comfortable with that.

As soon as I hear I will provide a further update........