Thorny stage 2 conversion

[lees csl]

Hi getting a stage 2 conversion done soon maybe at Thorny motor sport which consists of ecu remap £600 super sprint manifold £1500 plus fitting super sprint centre section and sport cats £500 already have super sprint back box looking at 40 more bhp im told has anyone had Theres done whats it like and do you recommend anyone else to do the work as some people say stuff about thorny i live in chorley in lancs any help would be brill.thanks

[phat///M3]

I doubt you will get 40 bhp more mate, I would love for someone to tell me Im wrong though.

[M5 Powered]

Hi Lee,

Afraid I agree, you will get more noise and a different throttle response, but you won't get 40bhp, not without opening-up the engine and changing to a racing cam shaft, manifold etc...

Best

Jonathan

[daniel]

Save your money.

[Thorney]

Happy to show anyone the power gains from the modifications, ask Sal on the CSL's he has mapped on our Dyno with same kit. Indeed we even did one on his Dyno and his response was the same - highest power he'd ever seen.

[karbonkid]

Hi getting a stage 2 conversion done soon maybe at Thorny motor sport which consists of ecu remap £600 super sprint manifold £1500 plus fitting super sprint centre section and sport cats £500 already have super sprint back box looking at 40 more bhp im told has anyone had Theres done whats it like and do you recommend anyone else to do the work as some people say stuff about thorny i live in chorley in lancs any help would be brill.thanks

Thats got to be the longest sentence I've read.......and breath...

[phat///M3]

Happy to show anyone the power gains from the modifications, ask Sal on the CSL's he has mapped on our Dyno with same kit. Indeed we even did one on his Dyno and his response was the same - highest power he'd ever seen.

40 BHP though? Im not saying I dont believe you, but that seems high for exhaust and remap.

[_Nathan_]

So 390bhp from a manifold, remap and 100 cell cats? Fook me, I want a new manifold if that is the case!

[Thorney]

Where does it say 40bhp? We quote +30bhp for manifold, full system and map? Website has been changed a lot of late so wondering where 40bhp comes from? 40bhp+ needs cams. Most CSL's tend to be between 350-355bhp, although some are higher. There are still people out there clImbing 30bhp from a remap ;) manifold is the crucial bit on the stage 3 anyway.

[Thorney]

Anyway, I'm not going to get dragged into an argument,we Dyno the car before we do the work, Dyno it after, you get to drive it before you pay, you don't like we take it all off with no charge. Not really much more we can offer.

[_Nathan_]

No idea John, first post, manifold is attractive to do as nothing needs breaking open, if I ever want more power then that will be first stop.

[Thorney]

No idea John, first post, manifold is attractive to do as nothing needs breaking open, if I ever want more power then that will be first stop.

Agree, kicking myself I didn't develop one a lot earlier than we did.

[phat///M3]

Where does it say 40bhp? We quote +30bhp for manifold, full system and map? Website has been changed a lot of late so wondering where 40bhp comes from? 40bhp+ needs cams. Most CSL's tend to be between 350-355bhp, although some are higher. There are still people out there clImbing 30bhp from a remap ;) manifold is the crucial bit on the stage 3 anyway.

The 40 BHP is what Lee posted in the OP, hence my reply being that I dont think you will get 40 BHP from those mods.

Anyway, I'm not going to get dragged into an argument,we Dyno the car before we do the work, Dyno it after, you get to drive it before you pay, you don't like we take it all off with no charge. Not really much more we can offer.

Not sure if that was meant to me but Im not arguing just thought 40 BHP sounds like a lot for those mods. As you've already pointed out just now.

[Dan]

Hi getting a stage 2 conversion done soon maybe at Thorny motor sport which consists of ecu remap £600 super sprint manifold £1500 plus fitting super sprint centre section and sport cats £500 already have super sprint back box looking at 40 more bhp im told has anyone had Theres done whats it like and do you recommend anyone else to do the work as some people say stuff about thorny i live in chorley in lancs any help would be brill.thanks

All I can say Lee is personally if I wasn't absolutely 110% perfectly happy with the company I was taking my car too, it wouldn't be going there!

I can personally recommend Simpsons for work, they are fantastic and a very knowledgable bunch! :smokin: Although I will say I've never had first hand of Thorney, have only read stuff online and listened to people's recommendations :)

[Thorney]

The 40 BHP is what Lee posted in the OP, hence my reply being that I dont think you will get 40 BHP from those mods.



Not sure if that was meant to me but Im not arguing just thought 40 BHP sounds like a lot for those mods. As you've already pointed out just now.

Sorry, not directed at anyone, no slight intended. And I agree 40bhp for those
Listed does sound a lot.

[alexk]

Why does the P54 racing engine produces ONLY 400HP and costs a fortune ?

There is something wrong with the numbers I guess.

[scrubberamit]

it's good to see you have time to post on the csl website - but still wont send me any paperwork / invoices on the work you have carried out or parts sent to george yet... if you have then it looks like the postman has decided to keep any mail with thorney motorsport logos for himself :thumbs:

Lee - not sure if you have seen this thread

http://www.cslregister.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4789&page=6

[shane@mbtech]

Why does the P54 racing engine produces ONLY 400HP and costs a fortune ?

There is something wrong with the numbers I guess.


BMW may not have the magic fairy dust next to their dyno;)

[Thorney]

it's good to see you have time to post on the csl website - but still wont send me any paperwork / invoices on the work you have carried out or parts sent to george yet... if you have then it looks like the postman has decided to keep any mail with thorney motorsport logos for himself :thumbs:

Lee - not sure if you have seen this thread

http://www.cslregister.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4789&page=6

I had no idea you were awaiting anything, I will of course look into it, I am sorry.

[shimmy]

Hi getting a stage 2 conversion done soon maybe at Thorny motor sport which consists of ecu remap £600 super sprint manifold £1500 plus fitting super sprint centre section and sport cats £500 already have super sprint back box looking at 40 more bhp im told has anyone had Theres done whats it like and do you recommend anyone else to do the work as some people say stuff about thorny i live in chorley in lancs any help would be brill.thanks

Lee

best thing if your up for these mods is to get your car dynoed at Evolve, pop up to Thorneys and get the mods done, then pop back to Sal at Evokve and redo the dyno.

If it goes up 30+bhp then you can tell us all and if not as Thorney seems to trust Sal at Evolve I am sure he will remove the parts and give you a full parts and labour refund.

If you get your car to 385 or 395 bhp you'll be nearly as happy as Mattcslnut who has near bhp to that.

[glendog74]

If you get your car to 385 or 395 bhp you'll be nearly as happy as Mattcslnut who has near bhp to that.

It also does close to 200MPH - or so i've heard... :smt044

[Hazy]

Anyway, I'm not going to get dragged into an argument,we Dyno the car before we do the work, Dyno it after, you get to drive it before you pay, you don't like we take it all off with no charge. Not really much more we can offer.

furry muff. TBH fellas the Thorney knocking is getting a little tedious, John is a nice bloke with a passion for these cars and for racing them, his cars are constantly setting fastest laps and winning races so give the fella a break. There are bad stories about EVERY dealer if you dig hard enough.

No idea John, first post, manifold is attractive to do as nothing needs breaking open, if I ever want more power then that will be first stop.

What power/engine mods do you have Nathan?

[shane@mbtech]

Lee

best thing if your up for these mods is to get your car dynoed at Evolve, pop up to Thorneys and get the mods done, then pop back to Sal at Evokve and redo the dyno.

If it goes up 30+bhp then you can tell us all and if not as Thorney seems to trust Sal at Evolve I am sure he will remove the parts and give you a full parts and labour refund.

If you get your car to 385 or 395 bhp you'll be nearly as happy as Mattcslnut who has near bhp to that.


Best thing would be to dyno car in an unbiased location. Get mods done, be it thorney or anywhere else, re dyno at same unbiased location who did not know you were getting mods done or have had mods done.


Figures can be manipulated to suit


Easy way, when your car arrives dyno with it strapped down as tight as possible which gives lower figure-do the mods, remap,-redyno but with car not so tightly strapped on rollers- higher perceieved figure so you think you have gained more than you technically have.


Dyno figures should be taken with a pinch of salt though, drive the thing.

[shane@mbtech]

furry muff. TBH fellas the Thorney knocking is getting a little tedious, John is a nice bloke with a passion for these cars and for racing them, his cars are constantly setting fastest laps and winning races so give the fella a break. There are bad stories about EVERY dealer if you dig hard enough.



What power/engine mods do you have Nathan?


Hazy what differences are there between your car and Marks-engine wise etc?

As they seem llb for llb same speed. Yours even looks like it pulls tad harder from the start.

[_Nathan_]

What power/engine mods do you have Nathan?

Standard engine with a throttle map that reduces throttle opening at a given RPM so even with your foot right down you don't get WOT. 320bhp or just under to get the car in to a specific power to weight class. With the normal map it made 349bhp.

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

What is the suggested increase in 'Torque' with these
modifications please ?

Even if 20/30/40 BHP was possible, that would only
give you in essence more top speed, you need real gains
in Torque on the S54 engine, not BHP.

The S54 3.4/5 Stroker Kit which lowers the RPM back
down to 7800/7900 rpm gives over 25 Lb/Ft Torque
increase from something like 2500 rpm upwards.

This would equate to around a 15-20 BHP gain at
full revs, in this case 7900 rpm.

Just to add, this is on the standard S54 exhaust manifold,
the increase with a Stepped or BMW P54 Race Header
is not much more.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[shane@mbtech]

Hi,

What is the suggested increase in 'Torque' with these
modifications please ?

Even if 20/30/40 BHP was possible, that would only
give you in essence more top speed, you need real gains
in Torque on the S54 engine, not BHP.

The S54 3.4/5 Stroker Kit which lowers the RPM back
down to 7800/7900 rpm gives over 25 Lb/Ft Torque
increase from something like 2500 rpm upwards.

This would equate to around a 15-20 BHP gain at
full revs, in this case 7900 rpm.

Just to add, this is on the standard S54 exhaust manifold,
the increase with a Stepped or BMW P54 Race Header
is not much more.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

Having driven a standard engined car with the stepped supersprint manifold I did not feel it tbh. It was mapped to suit, but did not feel any quicker to me.

My opinion is that the stepped manifold on a road car is a complete waste of money.

[lees csl]

Thanks for everyone's info on this matter i don't want to cause arguments between people over this. Al let you know what the outcome is when i have the work done thanks again.:thumbs:

[cantfind1]

I think I ll just say good luck with this one! And if Sal and Thorney have got together then it just gets worse IMHO and long experience.

And since this is an open forum I will state my thoughts!

[Hazy]

Hazy what differences are there between your car and Marks-engine wise etc?

As they seem llb for llb same speed. Yours even looks like it pulls tad harder from the start.

I would say my engine is a tad stronger, given that they are identical speed wise but I weighed 1380 against Marks 1322 at Pembrey.

Watch this space tho.....;)

[flow]

My CSL with ss race backbox made 355 bhp on the dyno (66k miles) .
I added the SS headers and SS mid pipe .
With a remap the car made 374bhp on the same dyno .

[glendog74]

My CSL with ss race backbox made 355 bhp on the dyno (66k miles) .
I added the SS headers and SS mid pipe .
With a remap the car made 374bhp on the same dyno .

What CATs are you running?

[shane@mbtech]

I would say my engine is a tad stronger, given that they are identical speed wise but I weighed 1380 against Marks 1322 at Pembrey.

Watch this space tho.....;)

So your standard manifold engine pulls stronger than marks lighter car with ss manifolds?

If so, My point I think proved that they are a waste of money!

PM me what you are doing Ad? and your package is in Micks:thumbs:

[shane@mbtech]

My CSL with ss race backbox made 355 bhp on the dyno (66k miles) .
I added the SS headers and SS mid pipe .
With a remap the car made 374bhp on the same dyno .

So 19bhp from manifolds mid pipe and remap.

But companies quote that much or more from just a remap alone. Either the remap figures quoted by nearly everyone who remaps M3's and csl's in the country, are not 100% true or the SS manifolds do diddly squat.

[alexk]

So 19bhp from manifolds mid pipe and remap.

But companies quote that much or more from just a remap alone. Either the remap figures quoted by nearly everyone who remaps M3's and csl's in the country, are not 100% true or the SS manifolds do diddly squat.

Just look how you can get 22HP and 58NM in a CSL.
http://www.digitaltuning.ch/prodotti_dett.php?id=427

PS : for years it's a joke with a best friend of mine... the gains this company is advertising

[flow]

What CATs are you running?

Still OEM cats .

I did not gain much Peak HP but the car gained alot more HP and torque at mid rev range over the oem setup .

A first my car was slower than my friends CSL , i could not follow him in a straight line (both stock) .
Then i added the SS stuf (no remap) and he now has a 3.9 diff .
And the cars were dead even in a straight line , so i think the ss headers will add a few HP's .

Company's claim +20BHP from ecu tuning , headers should be 10-15 bhp , so if you should believe this , with a remap and SS header you would get a +390bhp CSL ?? I don't believe that , sounds a litlle bit too easy .

[Hazy]

So your standard manifold engine pulls stronger than marks lighter car with ss manifolds?

If so, My point I think proved that they are a waste of money!

PM me what you are doing Ad? and your package is in Micks:thumbs:

I have been told by a couple of engine builders that they are a waste of time, my car has standard airbox and standard manifolds against Marks CSL type airbox and SS headers....will be interesting when they go on the dyno:thumbs:

[shimmy]

my gut feel is the following - no science to it but just my impression

1. all the bolt on mods+map aint gonna get you more than 275bhp from stock 255 bhp on a good day

2. with race cams and stronger engine with higher rpm + map youll get to 390 bhp

3. full on race engine with free flow exhaust and remap will get you 42bhp plus

4. lawsy doent like being called a Manc:bigcry:

[XKaLiBaR]

I think I ll just say good luck with this one! And if Sal and Evolve have got together then it just gets worse IMHO and long experience.

And since this is an open forum I will state my thoughts!

Sal and Evolve should be getting along, as he owns the company :thumbs:

You mean Sal and Thorney :thumbs:

The thing im confused about with the SS headers, is that the power gains quoted on the SS website, was for the LHD M3s, which is completely different to the ones made for the RHD.

The problem with these power gains from bolt on mods and remap, is that people add each mod and believe thats what they will gain.
If cats give 10bhp, headers give 5bhp and a remap gives 20bhp (just random figures), then you will not gain 35bhp. The cats on their own would give 10bhp. But combined with other mods, its not as effective.

I think the 30bhp gain is possible with the full exhaust system, and remap, but not on a CSL IMO. The CSL has better cams, exhaust and airbox from the normal M3, to increase the extra power.

I could be wrong though. Here is a mates car, who has shrick cams, full system exhaust and remap.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2753/4444009622_e9c9af0071_o.jpg

So if a standard M3 has about 330bhp, then his power increased by +33bhp. 3 bhp increase just on shrick cams, if remap and full system exhaust gives +30bhp :whistle:

Even though he has all those mods, i still kick his ass :hahaha: 1460kgs vs 1650kgs though :whistle:

I hope you do gain 30bhp and have 380-385bhp, that would be awesome for an M3.

[shane@mbtech]

4. lawsy doent like being called a Manc:bigcry:


I love you though shimmy:smt055

[cantfind1]

Sal and Evolve should be getting along, as he owns the company :thumbs:

You mean Sal and Thorney :thumbs:

The thing im confused about with the SS headers, is that the power gains quoted on the SS website, was for the LHD M3s, which is completely different to the ones made for the RHD.

The problem with these power gains from bolt on mods and remap, is that people add each mod and believe thats what they will gain.
If cats give 10bhp, headers give 5bhp and a remap gives 20bhp (just random figures), then you will not gain 35bhp. The cats on their own would give 10bhp. But combined with other mods, its not as effective.

I think the 30bhp gain is possible with the full exhaust system, and remap, but not on a CSL IMO. The CSL has better cams, exhaust and airbox from the normal M3, to increase the extra power.

I could be wrong though. Here is a mates car, who has shrick cams, full system exhaust and remap.

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2753/4444009622_e9c9af0071_o.jpg

So if a standard M3 has about 330bhp, then his power increased by +33bhp. 3 bhp increase just on shrick cams, if remap and full system exhaust gives +30bhp :whistle:

Even though he has all those mods, i still kick his ass :hahaha: 1460kgs vs 1650kgs though :whistle:

I hope you do gain 30bhp and have 380-385bhp, that would be awesome for an M3.



Sorry yes meant Sal and Thorney, now edited. ;)

Well with the dyno graph you have there I can honestly say he is not getting the most out of them!

I have schrick 280/288 cams, SS stepped manifold, SS Full exhaust, remap with CSL airbox and if you want to go by rolling road dyno figures then mine is putting out somewhere in the region of 375/380hp depending on the day, this was done on 2 different and independent dynos. However further dyno time is needed, now that I have realised that my HG is gone and my fuel pump was not producing adequate pressure.


I agree with Xcalibar though you cannot just bolt bits on add up the figures and expect to see those power figures it does not work like that. Although some companies will tell you it does!

[DuncanR]

Hi getting a stage 2 conversion done soon maybe at Thorny motor sport which consists of ecu remap £600 super sprint manifold £1500 plus fitting super sprint centre section and sport cats £500 already have super sprint back box looking at 40 more bhp im told has anyone had Theres done whats it like and do you recommend anyone else to do the work as some people say stuff about thorny i live in chorley in lancs any help would be brill.thanks

Being a newbie to all this CSL stuff and googlemapping..., and given how much you are looking at investing in said remap etc. .... my first question to you would be ..... what suspension are you currently running ?:smt102
If the answer to my question is still stock ... then that is where I would put my money first ...but thats just me .. and I talk bollox ... most of the time !;)