Diff 3.64 vs. 4.10

[alexk]

This info is from Manos. He lives in Crete in Greece and has an M3 that is fully changed to CSL specs (all carbon bits etc).
I think he is member also here but doesn't post. He tracks the CSL so he is a capable driver.
I would like to thank him for the info.

The tests are in the same place, same temperature and weather.
With red is diff 3.64 and blue 4.10.
With the 4.10, the car also has SS race cats, and SS lightweight race backbox.

0-100 km/h 1.3 sec difference (3.64 faster)
http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/2453/0100u.jpg

The car is spinning a lot with the 4.10

0-160 km/h 0.7 sec difference (3.64 faster)
With the 3.64 you have 2 gear shifts and with the 4.10 3 gear shifts.

http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/7656/0160ai.jpg


0-200 km/h 2 secs difference (3.64 faster)
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/4606/0200best.jpg


100-200km/h 1.4 secs difference (3.64 faster)

http://img140.imageshack.us/img140/8125/100200c.jpg


80-110 km/h only here 4.10 is faster

http://img341.imageshack.us/img341/5812/80110.jpg


0-400 m 0.5 secs difference (3.64 faster)

http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/9292/400ms.jpg

[_Nathan_]

Redo the graphs to eliminate wheelspin...

From a standstill the 4.1 version hardly moves for a while, then look at the 1-2 gearchange and how long there is no acceleration, wheelspin again.

[shane@mbtech]

Maybe the ss cats caused a slight loss in power????

[alexk]

Maybe the ss cats caused a slight loss in power????

I wouldn't be surprised.

[XKaLiBaR]

Too much wheel spin, for a realistic test. He needs to learn how to drive, or get better tyres. :whistle:

[alexk]

Too much wheel spin, for a realistic test. He needs to learn how to drive, or get better tyres. :whistle:

Comments like these are not necessary :smt021

He is running cups and he definitely knows how to drive.
If the road does not have 'dragster strip glue', that's another story.

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

These Graphs do not show the engine 'Rev' Drop
on each gear change.

They are just acceleration Graphs.

Once you factor in the Rev drop for each
gear change, and the fact that a 4.1 diff will
be using more engine revs for the same car speed
as a 3.64 in the same gear, then unless you can hit
8250 rpm in every gear, and only incur a rev drop
on each gear change of say 1750 rpm, which
would keep the S54 at around 6500rpm so right up on the std Cams,
then a 4.1 diff will give slightly better acceleration upto a
given point.

Higher lift Cams would push the window a little higher with
the Rev drop in each gear becoming even more critical.

I would guess that on just straight line acceleration,
at around 115 / 120 mph then
things would start to even out and from there on up
the 3.64 may start to have a slight edge.

Go onto most Tracks though and the 4.1 car will be quicker than
the 3.64.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[DuncanR]

So .. Shimmy.. you leaving yours in .. or taking it out?... or was it really in at all ?? :hahaha:

[XKaLiBaR]

Comments like these are not necessary :smt021

He is running cups and he definitely knows how to drive.
If the road does not have 'dragster strip glue', that's another story.

So you think wheelspinning off the line for half a second is a fair test, whilst the comparison graph he has zero wheelspin. :whistle:

[Dan]

So you think wheelspinning off the line for half a second is a fair test, whilst the comparison graph he has zero wheelspin. :whistle:

Take it with a pinch of salt mate, Alex is just trying to post some information up for god sake, we can't all be as technically sound as you are in your tests, ala the 'remap' thread, lining up next to your mate before and after mapping, no variables there is there! :whistle: :bigcry:

Snipping at people might be acceptable on Cutters but for genuine CSL owners we like to get on thanks! ;) :thumbs:

[alexk]

So you think wheelspinning off the line for half a second is a fair test, whilst the comparison graph he has zero wheelspin. :whistle:

Not sure what are you trying to prove here.
Lawsy wanted to have some figures about differentials.
Believe me I didn't post this info for you. :birdman:
If you don't like the results, you don't like the driver (that you don't know), you don't like the forum, you don't have to post these things.

Have a look at the quality of Gorilla's posts... and get examples.

PS : I don't know you but you could be YAWBCO (YetAnotherWannaBeCSLOwner), no offense meant...

[glendog74]

Blimey - it's getting more like M-Torque on here! :banghead:

Can we all be nice to each other now please... :smt008

[XKaLiBaR]

Redo the graphs to eliminate wheelspin...

From a standstill the 4.1 version hardly moves for a while, then look at the 1-2 gearchange and how long there is no acceleration, wheelspin again.

Thats pretty much what i said. Completely agree with you. There is better graphs that show better comparison between the 2 diffs. I will post them up, as soon as the site has come back up this afternoon/evening.

It is also a lot more accurate tests. The guy also shows distance covered, which is very important.


Believe me I didn't post this info for you. :birdman:

You posted on a public forum.

If you don't like the results, you don't like the driver (that you don't know), you don't like the forum, you don't have to post these things.

I didnt say i didnt like it, I was just pointing out the mistakes in the graph, caused by the drivers driving. The 4.10 diff has its benefits, but not by the graph you posted up.

I just dont want members to get the wrong idea, that the 4.10 diff is useless.

PS : I don't know you but you could be YAWBCO (YetAnotherWannaBeCSLOwner), no offense meant...

WTF are you 12 or something?

Take it with a pinch of salt mate, Alex is just trying to post some information up for god sake, we can't all be as technically sound as you are in your tests, ala the 'remap' thread, lining up next to your mate before and after mapping, no variables there is there! :whistle: :bigcry:

Snipping at people might be acceptable on Cutters but for genuine CSL owners we like to get on thanks! ;) :thumbs:

You should read back, I didnt snip at anyone. His the one that started bashing my head with a hammer :hahaha:

Rolling road and Dyno butts have variables, like whether you've taken a dump that day to barometric pressure. Lining up next to each other and having runs is the only way to test whether a power modification has worked.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APSyl62ewrQ

[shimmy]

Too much wheel spin, for a realistic test. He needs to learn how to drive, or get better tyres. :whistle:

agree, in part :whistle:
(notice Baris and i have put a :whistle: in which normally means 'tongue in cheek')


Comments like these are not necessary :smt021
.

no comments are 'necessary' alex, just some can spark some discussion - alternative poins of view do exist and not all facts are truely facts





Go onto most Tracks though and the 4.1 car will be quicker than
the 3.64.

.

im not sold on the 4.10 diff yet, too little use and too different circumstances so far



So .. Shimmy.. you leaving yours in .. or taking it out?... or was it really in at all ?? :hahaha:


:thumbs:KUNT

just to be clear it is in and staying at least until it breaks :smokin:



So you think wheelspinning off the line for half a second is a fair test, whilst the comparison graph he has zero wheelspin. :whistle:

agree the graph is a bit loaded with the wheelspin, i like this comparison post tbh

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=119367





Snipping at people might be acceptable on Cutters but for genuine CSL owners we like to get on thanks! ;) :thumbs:

i hate DuncanR :birdman:



Blimey - it's getting more like M-Torque on here! :banghead:

Can we all be nice to each other now please... :smt008

ohhhhhh bring back MTorque please :smokin: - i love you Rob :smt055

[XKaLiBaR]

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=119367





Thats the one I was trying to post up, but the sites going slow for me today.
Didnt you post up faster lap times at snett with the 4.10 diff? Or was that with the 3.64 still?

It all kinda depends on what track you're on. 4.10 might be better on some tracks, whilst 3.91 and 3.64 might be better on others.

[glendog74]

This car looks familiar - i love you too Shim :smt055

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM50-T72L8s

[shimmy]

This car looks familiar - i love you too Shim :smt055






not me, he looks too short and has far too much skill!

[shimmy]

Thats the one I was trying to post up, but the sites going slow for me today.
Didnt you post up faster lap times at snett with the 4.10 diff? Or was that with the 3.64 still?

It all kinda depends on what track you're on. 4.10 might be better on some tracks, whilst 3.91 and 3.64 might be better on others.

yep took ages to load up the page Baris

i did big gain in time at Snett with stock diff first :whistle: and then just bettered it with 4.10 diff last week but temps were 8-15 degrees hotter on track so not really good comparison

ill take a step back after August day at Snett and post up some comparisons (diff only)

[Hazy]

This car looks familiar - i love you too Shim :smt055

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM50-T72L8s

what a faggot!! THIS is how you do at at Weald :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:



http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=-4862612257152999634

[Curly]

:hahaha:

[DuncanR]

It all kinda depends on what track you're on. 4.10 might be better on some tracks, whilst 3.91 and 3.64 might be better on others.

Exactly the conclusion that I was coming too whilst getting over Shim hating me, looks to me like the gains,where there are some, tend to be so slight, that when you factor in what Baris has said above, both diffs may end up even...sometimes. Would think that Snett would be good for the 4.1 given the straights it has, but on a more twisty track, the advantage might be lost, and then of course ...dont forget those "crucial driver inputs" Nathan !!, Im very much a seat of the pants driver, in other words crap, I dont always hit the gear change exactly when I should as Im probably on the phone, or looking out the window at the German countryside flying by, but from all the above, it would appear that to acheive even the slight gains that there are to be had, one needs to be on the ball, and concentrating on optimum gear change points etc. hard work !!:banghead: ... but then again wtf do I know !:hahaha:.... and I really dont give a flying fook what anyone thinks of this post, or me as Im too dumb to feel insulted , and too old to be a keyboard warrior !.. glad we all getting along !:thumbs:

[DuncanR]

Now I know where that set of Cups I bought off you were last used Shim !!:banghead:

[shimmy]

Now I know where that set of Cups I bought off you were last used Shim !!:banghead:


B&Q car park mate - thats where Hazy learnt his skills :thumbs:

[shimmy]

my gut feel with the 4.10 diff is that there are samll gains to be made on some tracks

small gains as in 10ths or maybe half a sec

now doesnt seem like much but tbh witht eh CSL small gains with any mod are all you are gonna get (tuition, slicks and wings excepted)