Remaps- are they worthwile?

[shane@mbtech]

Whats your thoughts guys on remaps?

Im on the fence due to various things/feelings I have seen/had lately.

Are they worth it do you notice a difference?

Who is the best out there?


AL tuning get good reviews, aat technik come highly recommended too.

People rave how good simpsons are, are their maps good too?

I personally know dms and they get good power?




Shimmy dont answer. You thought your 4.10 diff was amazing and made the car pull harder and accelerate faster then realised it wasnt fitted:whistle:, so your findings realise my thoughts of placebo effect and that they may do fuck all, but we believe they do. (plus sal pays you off, or is that blows you off- delete as appropriate);)


Be interested in your views guys.

First person to recommend thorney gets a slap;):birdman:

[mole]

Whats your thoughts guys on remaps?

Im on the fence due to various things/feelings I have seen/had lately.

Are they worth it do you notice a difference?

Who is the best out there?


AL tuning get good reviews, aat technik come highly recommended too.

People rave how good simpsons are, are their maps good too?

I personally know dms and they get good power?




Shimmy dont answer. You thought your 4.10 diff was amazing and made the car pull harder and accelerate faster then realised it wasnt fitted:whistle:, so your findings realise my thoughts of placebo effect and that they may do fuck all, but we believe they do. (plus sal pays you off, or is that blows you off- delete as appropriate);)


Be interested in your views guys.

First person to recommend thorney gets a slap;):birdman:

Mine (not saying who did it) was checked by someone and found to be just 10% more fuel and 2.5 degrees ignition plus a higher (impossible to reach) speed limit. Nothing else touched. No wonder I didn't notice a difference :whistle:

[shane@mbtech]

Mine (not saying who did it) was checked by someone and found to be just 10% more fuel and 2.5 degrees ignition plus a higher (impossible to reach) speed limit. Nothing else touched. No wonder I didn't notice a difference :whistle:

So a shit map then, seeing a few of these lately.

[jibm]

So a shit map then, seeing a few of these lately.

should really name and shame, so others don't fall foul

[alexk]

My personal opinion is that it's not worth it, especially when the car is stock.

What will the tuner get out of the engine that BMW Motorsport didn't ?
Spare me the 'yes, the factory map is so as it can work with pump fuel in Nepal...'
CSL was never meant to be driven in some village in the end of the world that the fuel is not good.

Next time we will meet with Matt, we will test our CSLs.
His CSL made high HP number in the Dyno, but I reckon (and I might be wrong) he won't have much (if any) difference on the road.

Just my opinion of course and what I am doing with my car.
I think a backbox is what a CSL needs. The rest... is a waste of money.

[shane@mbtech]

My personal opinion is that it's not worth it, especially when the car is stock.

What will the tuner get out of the engine that BMW Motorsport didn't ?
Spare me the 'yes, the factory map is so as it can work with pump fuel in Nepal...'
CSL was never meant to be driven in some village in the end of the world that the fuel is not good.

Next time we will meet with Matt, we will test our CSLs.
His CSL made high HP number in the Dyno, but I reckon (and I might be wrong) he won't have much (if any) difference on the road.

Just my opinion of course and what I am doing with my car.
I think a backbox is what a CSL needs. The rest... is a waste of money.


I want to get out on track with Shimmy,. To see how his remapped and motorsport diff does against my stock map, stock diff. I reckon it may just have the edge but will be interesting to see.

[alexk]

I want to get out on track with Shimmy,. To see how his remapped and motorsport diff does against my stock map, stock diff. I reckon it may just have the edge but will be interesting to see.

Guy that I know in Greece measure his CSL with stock and changed diff.
Stock differential is MUCH faster in acceleration (0-100, 0-200, 100-200).
I can find the graphs.

I think a set of really light wheels can make difference in performance (straight line, braking and cornering).
A map and differential... no way !

[shane@mbtech]

Guy that I know in Greece measure his CSL with stock and changed diff.
Stock differential is MUCH faster in acceleration (0-100, 0-200, 100-200).
I can find the graphs.

I think a set of really light wheels can make difference in performance (straight line, braking and cornering).
A map and differential... no way !


Be interesting to see the graphs as US graphs show the opposite way. No huge difference but they rate 4.10 diff as v slighly faster acceleration.

[alexk]

new thread...

[_Nathan_]

Don't think there are any big gains to be had.

Simpsons use ESS maps, no idea how they compare to anything else, I've got some ESS code on mine but only to mess with the throttle map to limit it to 320bhp for power to weight, don't think it does anything else.

As for diff - I can't see how it would be slower? More torque at the wheels = better acceleration. As long as it isn't so short that the extra gear changes absorb all the time gained...

[daniel]

Just to narrow it down for you a bit more. Al = AAT.

[Dan]

Next time we will meet with Matt, we will test our CSLs.
His CSL made high HP number in the Dyno, but I reckon (and I might be wrong) he won't have much (if any) difference on the road.



If Matt's keeps pulling like it did when he took me out in it then you'll see the difference, it's solid in the mid-range and pulls very hard all the way to the redline in every gear, I'm not going to say who did the Map as he's asked me not to and I respect that but I'll be getting one for sure, worth every penny IMO! :thumbs:

[scrubberamit]

I got mine done by Technosport last summer... http://www.technosport.co.uk/contactus.html

(for anyone who was at the top gear dunsfold event, George had his race car parked next to our CSLs)

George had the car for nearly 3 weeks and to be honest i wasnt sure what to expect

When i got the car back - i was so impressed... The power curve was linear and what really impressed me is taht how the car keeps pulling through the revs - no need for changing gear at all at 6000 revs ....she now pulls to 145 mph in 4th gear!!!

I'm not going to name ANY names here, as it's not my business to sl&g off companies on the web... All i will say is that any tuning company that claims you will get x % increase in bhp etc etc is talking utter sh1t..

The thing that really impressed me with George is taht there was no guarantee of 20 bhp increase or your 0-100 times will be down by 2 secs or rubbish claims like that... What i was promised was more grunt and sharper acceleration - and that's exactly what i got...

Oh the guy that actually did the tuning of my car was a senior engineer for BMW M SPORT and actually worked on teh pistion design of a certain Mclaren F1...

Are remaps worth it - I would say hell yes... But do your research... There are several people on diff forums who can give you advice on where to go / not to go...

As mentioned above, my only advice would be AVOID anyone who comes out with nonsense claims - you will be disappointed... You cannot improve your car with bolt ons - You will be 100% disappointed... and these bolt ons can actually cause damage to your car....

The only way you can improve your car is with a custom remap of the ECU

[_Nathan_]

no need for changing gear at all at 6000 revs ....she now pulls to 145 mph in 4th gear!!!


Why would you change at 6k in a non remapped car? I don't get it! :whistle:

[shane@mbtech]

If Matt's keeps pulling like it did when he took me out in it then you'll see the difference, it's solid in the mid-range and pulls very hard all the way to the redline in every gear, I'm not going to say who did the Map as he's asked me not to and I respect that but I'll be getting one for sure, worth every penny IMO! :thumbs:


He has already told everyone, DMS;)

[mattCSLnut]

Why would you change at 6k in a non remapped car? I don't get it! :whistle:

Same here... it doesn't make sense in a car (the CSL) that produces peek power @ 7900 rpm :smt017

[shane@mbtech]

No, I didn't Lawsy ... but it seems U just have :whistle:


How did I know then, I only know from reading on here;)

http://www.cslregister.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4263

Scroll down you bellend:birdman:

[scrubberamit]

Same here... it doesn't make sense in a car (the CSL) that produces peek power @ 7900 rpm :smt017

On Fast road driving (especially on European roads like Route Napoleon, Mount ventoux, Stelvio ) I never liked how it drove In low gears espec above 6-6500 revs... also i probably was a bit of homer!

But I still maintain what I said earlier - Worth getting a full ECU remap - but just do your research - Avoid the "specialists" with bolt on packages

[shane@mbtech]

On Fast road driving (especially on European roads like Route Napoleon, Mount ventoux, Stelvio ) I never liked how it drove In low gears espec above 6-6500 revs... also i probably was a bit of homer!

But I still maintain what I said earlier - Worth getting a full ECU remap - but just do your research - Avoid the "specialists" with bolt on packages


Like who?, speak your mind, I do;)

[glendog74]

No, I didn't Lawsy ... but it seems U just have :whistle:

How did I know then, I only know from reading on here;)

http://www.cslregister.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4263

Scroll down you bellend:birdman:

ROFL! :smt044 :smt044

I was just about to do the same Lawsy - it would appear that Matt forgets just how much info he blurts out on here (along with the obligatory accompanying photo to each post...) :bigcry: :hahaha:

[JezP]

Hmmm interesting thread might get george to check my map out when im next in.

[shane@mbtech]

ROFL! :smt044 :smt044

I was just about to do the same Lawsy - it would appear that Matt forgets just how much info he blurts out on here (along with the obligatory accompanying photo to each post...) :bigcry: :hahaha:

I forget nothing Rob:thumbs:

Thats why certain people are dead men walking;):smokin:

[scrubberamit]

Like who?, speak your mind, I do;)

:whistle:

[mole]

Hmmm interesting thread might get george to check my map out when im next in.

George at Technosport? What map are you running?

[Dan]

He has already told everyone, DMS;)

I didn't notice the other thread, regardless of what he's said I was just keeping my word to him :)

Never the less I was very impressed with his car :thumbs:

[mattCSLnut]

I forget nothing Rob:thumbs:


... nothing except your own Fook ups ;) :hahaha: :hahaha: :hahaha:

[mattCSLnut]

How did I know then, I only know from reading on here;)

http://www.cslregister.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4263



Uhhhh :gayfight: I see the "Thread Police" are out in force :whistle:
Well.... excuse me ladeeez :birdman: I stand corrected :blalalala:

[shane@mbtech]

Uhhhh :gayfight: I see the "Thread Police" are out in force :whistle:
Well.... excuse me ladeeez :birdman: I stand corrected :blalalala:


NO thread police mate, just people who remember things you fookwit:birdman:

[mattCSLnut]

NO thread police mate, just people who remember things you fookwit:birdman:
What's with the name calling ... having a wee Rooney moment :whistle:
Lighten up Lawsy ;) or U'll give yourself a heart burn

[shane@mbtech]

What's with the name calling ... having a wee Rooney moment :whistle:
Lighten up Lawsy ;) or U'll give yourself a heart burn


No heartburn for me, I am stressfree mate, but dont call me a manc ever again;):clown:

[mattCSLnut]

No heartburn for me, I am stressfree mate

U say that but... :moan: :moan: :moan:

[cantfind1]

So Matt you had it done at evolve? They do a very good map, but you can get better!

Well anyone that wants some real info can PM me I am not writing it on here! Having had various maps over the years from different companies and now a full airbox conversion I can honestly say there are only two companies 2 go to. They have been mentioned already in this thread and have a very good reputation for a reason.

Lawsy you know who they are.

[DuncanR]

I'm not going to say who did the Map as he's asked me not to

We all know !! lol :hahaha: .... dont you DARE tell him Pike !!


Ah bollocks .... should have read to the end of the thread first before jumping in !:banghead::hahaha:

[s.mac]

but dont call me a manc ever again;):clown:

:smt046:smt044

[DuncanR]

How did I know then, I only know from reading on here;)

http://www.cslregister.com/forum/showthread.php?t=4263

Scroll down you bellend:birdman:


Busted Matt :hahaha:;)

[DuncanR]

I forget nothing Rob:thumbs:

Thats why certain people are dead men walking;):smokin:

I say Shane... is it time to break open the gun cabinet old boy ??!!

bugger ...thats not funny at the moment is it !!! ... wasnt last time either as I recall :banghead:....

[shane@mbtech]

U say that but... :moan: :moan: :moan:


Dont believe all you read as text can read whichever way you want. ;)

Im not angry, just liberated:thumbs:

Im like the stiffmeister of the register you ballbag shitbrick:birdman::beer:

[shane@mbtech]

So Matt you had it done at evolve? They do a very good map, but you can get better!

Well anyone that wants some real info can PM me I am not writing it on here! Having had various maps over the years from different companies and now a full airbox conversion I can honestly say there are only two companies 2 go to. They have been mentioned already in this thread and have a very good reputation for a reason.

Lawsy you know who they are.

Matts was done at DMS mate:thumbs:

Pm me the shit:smokin:

[shane@mbtech]

I say Shane... is it time to break open the gun cabinet old boy ??!!

bugger ...thats not funny at the moment is it !!! ... wasnt last time either as I recall :banghead:....


Comedy Dunc-timing is everything old chap. You are a legend.

For the people on my list, a gun would be too quick;).

[DuncanR]

Matts was done at DMS mate:thumbs:

Pm me the shit:smokin:

eVOLVE = dms = evolve .... fook couldnt even get that right ! :banghead:


BTW it is my intention to leave my brand new engine the fook alone with regards to remapping, getmapping or even fookin googlemapping ...so... if anyone wishes to use MY trusty steed as a benchmark in ANY kind of test whatsoever, .....tough ! lol.... let me know, however, bring tissues just in case your £600+ remap gets its ass wiped through "Crucial driver inputs":supz: ... great line Nath !

[DuncanR]

For the people on my list, a gun would be too quick;).

Im not exactly Billy the Fookin Kid myself Lawsy !! especially with 32" barrels :hahaha:




Back on the subject, a thread which may be of interest http://forums.m3cutters.com/showthread.php?p=187573



From the AAT site mmmmm


- Live Mapping
We really love this one, many companies are claiming to be different because they offer live mapping for their customers, making them some what special! this is where they will connect a laptop up to your car's diagnostic connector and drive the car while another person "live map's the car", or should i say pretends to map the car. LIVE MAPPING CAN NOT BE DONE THROUGH THE DIAGNOSTIC CONNECTOR OF ANY CAR! The data cannot be extracted at a fast enough rate to be able to carry out a live map. The only correct way is to open the vehicle's ecu and connect an emulator, so you can transfer the data from the ecu in REAL TIME. along side this certain diagnostic tools and analysers are needed like air fuel ratio meter and det detect equipment if need be.
Ok so lets say after all that a company is able to live map, who says they are any good at it? You have to remember that a HIGHLY DEVELOPED custon map is going to be miles better than a POOR live map. It takes years of experience to be able to live map successfully! Lastly somebody cannot live map modern cars 100% unless of course they have original manufacturer tooling to do so. These tools are specific to the manufacturer only, and is not possible to purchase. So dont fall for it!

[alexk]

After all that :banghead: are U taking the P**S ? :hahaha: ;)
No, it was Rob @ DMS who did my re-map :thumbs: give him a call if U want a proper RR re-map. U wont be disappointed. :beer:

http://www.dmsautomotive.com


Matt we need to street-race our CSLs next time (god knows when;)) we will meet.
I challenge you ! :smt065

:smt003

[cantfind1]

After all that :banghead: are U taking the P**S ? :hahaha: ;)
No, it was Rob @ DMS who did my re-map :thumbs: give him a call if U want a proper RR re-map. U wont be disappointed. :beer:

http://www.dmsautomotive.com


Sorry just looked at the picture! looks very similar to evolve garage!

[mattCSLnut]

Matt we need to street-race our CSLs next time (god knows when;)) we will meet.
I challenge you ! :smt065

:smt003

I know a decent one way road in Ze Fazerland ;) where we can conduct our challenges :whistle: τέλος Ιουλίου :smokin:
On guard :smt065

[karbonkid]

Matt we need to street-race our CSLs next time (god knows when;)) we will meet.
I challenge you ! :smt065

:smt003

:smt017.... :whistle:

[XKaLiBaR]

AL tuning aka AAtecknik have different map to Evolve. The main difference is, evolve RR your car, and make sure everything is running spot on, and then fine tune the map to suit your car.

I did a before and after runs with a mates car. Before the remap, it was neck and neck, after the remap, i left him EVERY single time. It definately works.

[glendog74]

So the consensus seems to be that Evolve and DMS maps seem to be the ones to go for? :whistle:

[scrubberamit]

what are they like at corner weighting... :whistle:

[cantfind1]

So the consensus seems to be that Evolve and DMS maps seem to be the ones to go for? :whistle:


Yeah if you want! But there is better!

[cantfind1]

AL tuning aka AAtecknik have different map to Evolve. The main difference is, evolve RR your car, and make sure everything is running spot on, and then fine tune the map to suit your car.

I did a before and after runs with a mates car. Before the remap, it was neck and neck, after the remap, i left him EVERY single time. It definately works.


Putting your car on a rolling road does not make sure everything is running spot on!

Also rolling road dyno figures are not accurate. If you want to see the increase in power and torque properly from engine modifications take it out and put it on an engine dyno.

By the way AL and AAT will dyno your car if you want but it is not necessary on road cars with bolt on mods as they know what they are doing, are experienced and have been doing it a lot longer IMHO.

[cantfind1]

what are they like at corner weighting... :whistle:

:thumbs:

Don's start this again! haha

[glendog74]

Yeah if you want! But there is better!

Explain...! :whistle:

[cantfind1]

PM'ed Mate.

PS always wanted to say I quite like the red wheels! but not in a gay way!

[glendog74]

PM'ed Mate.

PS always wanted to say I quite like the red wheels! but not in a gay way!

LoL - cheers mate - PM sent back ;)

[Dan]

Putting your car on a rolling road does not make sure everything is running spot on!

Also rolling road dyno figures are not accurate. If you want to see the increase in power and torque properly from engine modifications take it out and put it on an engine dyno.

By the way AL and AAT will dyno your car if you want but it is not necessary on road cars with bolt on mods as they know what they are doing, are experienced and have been doing it a lot longer IMHO.

AL are someone who I've heard and read have a poor reputation as well, my mate's M3 Cab went there and it wasn't very good at all... :whistle:

[shimmy]

as Lawsy told me to but out of this thread i have loyally not read it until today


i have all weekend been looking forward to reading many threads of expert opinions :hahaha::hahaha::hahaha::hahaha::hahaha::hahaha::h ahaha::hahaha::hahaha::hahaha:


only thing ive learnt is how to wind Lawsy up :thumbs:(thanks Matt)

[Bealo]

I agree Shim, funny reading :thumbs:

[DuncanR]

only thing ive learnt is how to wind Lawsy up :thumbs:(thanks Matt)
Please tell me you didnt call him a fookin Manc ???:hahaha:

[mattCSLnut]

as Lawsy told me to but out of this thread i have loyally not read it until today

only thing ive learnt is how to wind Lawsy up :thumbs:(thanks Matt)

Any time Shimmy ;)

[Gee@aat]

Hi Guys,

I stumbled upon this thread and felt I had to sign up and post.

First of all I would like to clear up that AATechnik is not the same as AL Tuning. However we do know each other very well. They tune totally independent to my self.

Before I start I would like to say this is not an attempt for me to sell a product or my service. I generally do not get much time get on forums and try to sell my products/service to people and nor would I want to. And the times I do I sometimes read false infomation and unfortunateley the ones that do not know any better believe it. It can get quite annoying at times. ;)

Now moving onto M3’s and software tuning…

There are many companies now that are offering remaps/software tuning for these cars.

When I first started tuning M3’s I was the first one I believe in the UK to get any general power increase from these vehicles.

As I went further into tuning these cars I realised how inconsistent performance figures were on these vehicles after tuning. I know that other tuning companies are also experiencing similar issues that I was back then.

After scratching my head and trying to figure out exactly what was going on I soon realised what works and what does not.

These in consistencies have been blamed on all sorts of things, Cam Timing being out on stock cars, air mass sensors being faulty the list goes on.

First of all I have probably lost count of the amount of S54 Engines that I have stripped down and in stock form I have never come across an engine with the cam timing slightly out but hey I could be wrong….

Secondly I believe no real investigation ever gets carried out when these claims are made. No real diagnostic work is ever carried out. Just assumptions!
If ever I have a car that we need to tune on a dyno which has custom parts fitted and it does not make the required power we look into why.

Thankfully we have good diagnostic tools and actually have automotive background.

We are able to look at
Vanos position in real degrees for each bank while the car is running from this I can see if I am getting the correct angle compared to what is programmed by bmw in the ecu.
We can check ignition in degrees for each cylinder
Knock sensor voltage, from this I then calculate how much degrees of ignition the ecu is actually pulling. Then I look into why..

And a whole load of other stuff that generally is not available on your average diagnostic tools out there.


After over 30 alterations we released our software for road going cars, and this is after 5 months of testing with customers…..

To get anymore than 20hp from these engines consistently one would need to push the engine very hard indeed. Many other tuners/companies may disagree but I know that I can make a car show 20hp gain on a dyno with some tuning, I also know that 2 weeks down the line if I was to re dyno the car, most of the time that gain would either not be there or be much less as the DME has adapted and did not like the changes made.

So sometimes having a car on a dyno showing some good gains doesn’t necessarily mean they are there for good. Altering certain perimeters with in the DME will make power for some short time until adaptations take place.

I am not saying that dyno’s are useless, they are a very good tool, my argument is with oem engine management there are many variables that go through adaption and the gains seen sometimes are not necessarily there for good. It is these adaptions that keep engines from going horribly wrong when tuned incorrectly.

On another note, here is something to think about, when purchasing a supercharger kit for these cars either from ESS or Active Autowerke, are you required to dyno tune the car? Come on guys we are talking of increase of 100hp minimum. No you send your dme away it gets flashed and you fit into the car and drive. Now how many stories have you heard about where a supercharged car has blown up because of the software not being right? Think about this…. J

When we first released our software for the E46 M3 we quoted +17hp we soon realised that it was not consistant and then every customer who enquired about the remap we explained that gains would be anywhere between 10hp to 17hp. Generally we see around 15hp. We were also asked why we do not put the car on the dyno and “tweak the map” and the reason is that we have set the road software at a point where we think is safe for a road car. If we were to get 20hp from an s54 we would get it CONSISTANTLY, some months down the line if nothing has changed mechanically on the engine the gain would still be there and there would concern for the engines in the long run.
I have seen stock S54 engines go wrong, I certainly was not going to release something that was going to contribute to that happening.

With over 200 M3’s tuned worldwide over 100 from one UK forum alone, not one has gone wrong I think this rather proves the point….

I hope this clears things up…

Lastly I would like to point out that this my opinion based on my experience many may disagree J

Gee

[Franco]

Jesus the post count per page needs to be upped :bigcry:

I keep thinking......"wow, big threads", then notice the post count! :bigcry:

(I'm a mod on A N Other Vb Forum )