Getting ready for track.

[danaldo]

Hi all, just looking for some advice on tyres and wheels.

Firstly at the moment i have two set of wheels, one oem and a set of volks, both in 19". I gather that more people are starting to run 18's, is there a marked improvement in doing so? Only interested for on track performance, not doing that many road miles at the moment.

Is another benefit of more types of track tyre available? Such as dunlops? Just really wandering what people are running and thinking of changing a set of 19's to 18's.

Secondly and more importantly I also need to get a new set of cups, especially rears, and was wandering where the best places to look for them are? Again also need to source some new rs29's and was wandering the best place to look for them is?

Many thanks.

[Dan]

I don't know about 18'' Vs 19'' wheels, IMO the car was designed for 19's so just as well keep using them, but then I'm not exactly chasing tenth's on track! :)

As for the RS29's have a chat with Simpsons Motorsport, superb company who are very professional and will do a competitive price for you! :thumbs:

As for tyres the Cups I don't think are being made in 18'' any more, however for track tyres you have lots of choices, Michelin PS Cup, Toyo R888, Dunlop DZ03, Kuhmo V70....

[karbonkid]

If tracking on Cups, 19s are easier to get hold of than 18s but if considering other tyres, 18s are the way to go as they will be marginally cheaper, lighter etc and also gives you the option to run slicks later. I run 18"/ Cups for track, and tbh not sure what can top them for performance. Yet to try Dunlop DZ03s but being more expensive than Cups... Not worth changing.

Ref: RS29s are you standard or BBK? Most places will source them. Thorney is cheap for Fronts - AP fitment.

http://www.thorneymotorsport.co.uk/products/product_info.php?products_id=4812&osCsid=3c97c141df3ecd65a5cb5f36cd3f0394

I may be getting rid of a set of New 19" Cups v.soon.

[shimmy]

KK

18inch Cups are heavier than 19 inch !! (more rubber)

[karbonkid]

KK

18inch Cups are heavier than 19 inch !! (more rubber)

So I remember you saying, but ment the wheels as standard ;)

[shimmy]

So I remember you saying, but ment the wheels as standard ;)

I've never weighed the 18 inch BMW rims but I'd put money on them with 18" cups heavier than CSL rims with 19" cups

but anyway, 18s as KK says give you more tyre choice if you are in a budget

[karbonkid]

:119: Confused.com

Your right, was talking to Dan/ Matt ref: OEM 18s weight compared to 19" CSLs. OEM 18s - 18x8 24.7 lbs/ 18x9 26.9 lbs, real heavy when rubbers fitted.
Matt has 4 of the rear jobbies like I did before the TDs and when picking them up you can certainly notice some difference to OEM CSLs, but as 'standard' 18s go (not meaning OEM) they should be lighter if the correct set are chosen. In my case TD saved me 4.8lbs/ wheel over my previous OEM 18 rears. Shim, your Volks must have saved you big lbs here!?

[shimmy]

Def more rim choice in 18s as you say with variety of price points. My Volks/Cups save 2.2kg per corner over 9.5j CSL rims all round. And that's real weight measured in my garage, not some dodgy wheel salesman selling you a set.

As for Mat. He's driving around with a set of lead feet!

[karbonkid]

Def more rim choice in 18s as you say with variety of price points. My Volks/Cups save 2.2kg per corner over 9.5j CSL rims all round. And that's real weight measured in my garage, not some dodgy wheel salesman selling you a set.

As for Mat. He's driving around with a set of lead feet!

Impressive Ultra light savings with Cups fitted there.

@OP - danaldo, there is a couple of nice sets of cheap 18s in the FS section I have just stumbled across! :whistle:

[mattCSLnut]

Indeed I am :thumbs: and indeed they are (quite heavy) :banghead: but surely this is unsprung weight so it'll only be effecting the acceleration a bit ? :smt017 not that I've noticed it :whistle: Can someone please explain how this unsprung weight effects the car :smt017



:119: Confused.com

Your right, was talking to Dan/ Matt ref: OEM 18s weight compared to 19" CSLs. OEM 18s - 18x8 24.7 lbs/ 18x9 26.9 lbs, real heavy when rubbers fitted.
Matt has 4 of the rear jobbies like I did before the TDs and when picking them up you can certainly notice some difference to OEM CSLs, but as 'standard' 18s go (not meaning OEM) they should be lighter if the correct set are chosen. In my case TD saved me 4.8lbs/ wheel over my previous OEM 18 rears. Shim, your Volks must have saved you big lbs here!?

[_Nathan_]

Worse braking, worse acceleration, worse wheel control - harder for the damper to keep the wheel under control = worse handling.

[shimmy]

Indeed I am :thumbs: and indeed they are (quite heavy) :banghead: but surely this is unsprung weight so it'll only be effecting the acceleration a bit ? :smt017 not that I've noticed it :whistle: Can someone please explain how this unsprung weight effects the car :smt017


let me think....................maybe one of David's mates can do it better













http://farm1.static.flickr.com/41/110149363_e7d8fa0057_o.jpg

[mattCSLnut]

Worse then what ???
Should I ditch the 9J 18's all round with semi slicks ? and just fit Michelin CUP tyres to my 19" CSL rims ?

Worse braking, worse acceleration, worse wheel control - harder for the damper to keep the wheel under control = worse handling.

[mattCSLnut]

Nice boots there Shimmy :whistle: definitely goes with the outfit :blalalala:

let me think....................maybe one of David's mates can do it better

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/41/110149363_e7d8fa0057_o.jpg

[shimmy]

Worse then what ???
Should I ditch the 9J 18's all round with semi slicks ? and just fit Michelin CUP tyres to my 19" CSL rims ?

for a start youll have more grip on the drive wheels with 9.5J :thumbs:

slightly less grip on the front (maybe) :bigcry:

CSL lighter rims all round by i guess around 2kg per corner ( remember 18 inch tyres are 0.5kg heavier than 19 inch) so beter turn in will be the most noticable difference i would guess:thumbs:

19 inch Cups more pricey :bigcry:

19 inch look better :thumbs:



imho the biggest change ive made to my car this winter was the rims. i think overall htey made a bigger change to the car than all the other changes put together.

i think the lighter rims, stiffer rims and wider front rubber certainly has helped improve turn in and higher corner speed, reduced understeer.

i could tell you more but id have to kill you!

[Andrew]

these wont be the lightest option, but pretty good value:

http://www.montyswheelsandtyres.com/product.asp?numRecordPosition=2&P_ID=1059&strPageHistory=cat&strKeywords=&SearchFor=&PT_ID=134

I ran A048s on 18" M3 wheels for a while in 2007, they work pretty well, fit over the AP calliper.
Only thing with A048s, is I found them quite sensitive to heat cycles, so took longer and longer to get up to temperature as they wore down.


look ugly compared to CSL rims though

http://badger.ing.me.uk/stuff/frozenspeed/small/T7D_2644.jpg

[danaldo]

Everybody, thanks for the advice. Think I will stay with the 19's for the time being, the volks are very light so will just stay with them.

With reference to brake pads I am running BBK, and looking to fit the pads myself, where would be the best place to buy them?

Karbonkid, I would be very interested if you are selling a pair of cups, do you know when you will be selling?

Hopefully get to meet some of you on a track day soon, going to Oulton on the 4th Aug then anglessey on the 6th, will also be there in a supercharged 968, cant wait to compare the two cars!!

[shimmy]

With reference to brake pads I am running BBK, and looking to fit the pads myself, where would be the best place to buy them?
!!

Best price is usually Questmead but ASPerformace, Simpons and Thorney can all do good deals depending on stock

[mattCSLnut]

Tell me more :whistle: I'll take my chances :axe:
When I started using the 9J 18 standard M3 wheels all round but especially up front, any hint of understeer has gone and the front end turn in, as well as grip are both phenomenal. This being my first year with the CSL on Track I'm quite content with what I have and make good use of it. I guess that's down to how good the DUNLOP DZ02g really are ?
Would U honestly say I'd be faster/better of (putting the cost of 19" CUPs aside) just running CUP tyres on my OEM 19" CSL rims with 12 mm spacers up front ? or do what U did and find light weight 18" wheels solutions ? :whistle:


for a start youll have more grip on the drive wheels with 9.5J :thumbs:

slightly less grip on the front (maybe) :bigcry:

CSL lighter rims all round by i guess around 2kg per corner ( remember 18 inch tyres are 0.5kg heavier than 19 inch) so beter turn in will be the most noticable difference i would guess:thumbs:

19 inch Cups more pricey :bigcry:

19 inch look better :thumbs:



imho the biggest change ive made to my car this winter was the rims. i think overall htey made a bigger change to the car than all the other changes put together.

i think the lighter rims, stiffer rims and wider front rubber certainly has helped improve turn in and higher corner speed, reduced understeer.

i could tell you more but id have to kill you!

[danaldo]

Shimmy, what Volks are you running? Are they the same as Woppums old ones (now mine!)

[shimmy]

Shimmy, what Volks are you running? Are they the same as Woppums old ones (now mine!)

No I've got 18 inch VRG2, new stiffer rims by Volks

your 19s are good wheels, same as Dazblackcsl.

[shane@mbtech]

Matt the cups are better tyres in terms of grip than your dunlops, but your dunlops will probably last longer.

I'm running 265 all round on td pro race 1.2's.

I'm no slouch and I reckon I would be as fast on them as I would be on Shimmys bling bling paper wheels;)

Chasing 10ths is silly tbh, esp when the money would be far better spent on tuition. :thumbs:

Driving lessons is my next mod and I reckon will be the most cost effective by far:smokin:

[shimmy]

Matt the cups are better tyres in terms of grip than your dunlops, but your dunlops will probably last longer.

I'm running 265 all round on td pro race 1.2's.

I'm no slouch and I reckon I would be as fast on them as I would be on Shimmys bling bling paper wheels;)

Chasing 10ths is silly tbh, esp when the money would be far better spent on tuition. :thumbs:

Driving lessons is my next mod and I reckon will be the most cost effective by far:smokin:

Agree with that, apart from the bit where you said you gonna be "fast"

[mattCSLnut]

Matt the cups are better tyres in terms of grip than your dunlops, but your dunlops will probably last longer.

I'm running 265 all round on td pro race 1.2's.

I'm no slouch and I reckon I would be as fast on them as I would be on Shimmys bling bling paper wheels;)

Chasing 10ths is silly tbh, esp when the money would be far better spent on tuition. :thumbs:

Driving lessons is my next mod and I reckon will be the most cost effective by far:smokin:

Totally agree with you... chasing 10ths on Track Days is total nonsense to me... I'm not in any racing series, just having a bit of Track Day fun + I'm mainly interested in lapping the RING, anyway. I'm extreamly happy with Dunlop DZs gripp levels and since I'm not Racing, tyre longevity is very important to me so on these basis I think I should stick with what I have... DULOPS DZ tyre solutions :beer:

I've considered the Team Dynamics Pro Race 1.2 18" but are they available in 9J ? as the ones I've seen so far are only 8J. What's the dry weight of one of these TD rims ? and would the benefits of having these over the 9J M3 rear 18"s I running happily at present be worth the effort, not to mention extra cost ???

Also agree on spending money on tuition... so far I've paid @ Brands Hatch, Silverstone, Bedford and very wet Snetterton. It's the best money I have spent this year :thumbs: it's like night & day :beer:

[Bealo]

Matt the cups are better tyres in terms of grip than your dunlops, but your dunlops will probably last longer.

I'm running 265 all round on td pro race 1.2's.

I'm no slouch and I reckon I would be as fast on them as I would be on Shimmys bling bling paper wheels;)

Chasing 10ths is silly tbh, esp when the money would be far better spent on tuition. :thumbs:

Driving lessons is my next mod and I reckon will be the most cost effective by far:smokin:

Bloody hell Lawsy that is the more sensible thing i have heard you say lol

Seriously though i agree with you 100%

I know need some tution :thumbs:

[karbonkid]

Totally agree with you... chasing 10ths on Track Days is total nonsense to me... I'm not in any racing series, just having a bit of Track Day fun + I'm mainly interested in lapping the RING, anyway. I'm extreamly happy with Dunlop DZs gripp levels and since I'm not Racing, tyre longevity is very important to me so on these basis I think I should stick with what I have... DULOPS DZ tyre solutions :beer:

I've considered the Team Dynamics Pro Race 1.2 18" but are they available in 9J ? as the ones I've seen so far are only 8J. What's the dry weight of one of these TD rims ? and would the benefits of having these over the 9J M3 rear 18"s I running happily at present be worth the effort, not to mention extra cost ???

Also agree on spending money on tuition... so far I've paid @ Brands Hatch, Silverstone, Bedford and very wet Snetterton. It's the best money I have spent this year :thumbs: it's like night & day :beer:

Agree... However Matt, DZ02s are discontinued and the DZ03s are more £ than Cups atm as I would have gone that route. My apeal to a better tyre like DZs/ Cups is not neccessary to chase 0.secs but for durability lap after lap and relying on them to allow you to push further.

Regards TeamDs the 1.2s go upto 9J (like mine) at a naked weight of 9.8-10kg which is a saving of around 2.2-2.4kg/ rim to OEM 18s 9Js IIRC. TeamDs 1.3s offer 10J aswell. £ for £ I think TDs (@ under £600) are a cheap alternative if needing rims anyway, after that rims get more expensive for
money I would prefer to spend elsewhere. :thumbs:

[mattCSLnut]

Agree... However Matt, DZ02s are discontinued and the DZ03s are more £ than Cups atm as I would have gone that route. My apeal to a better tyre like DZs/ Cups is not neccessary to chase 0.secs but for durability lap after lap and relying on them to allow you to push further.

Regards TeamDs the 1.2s go upto 9J (like mine) at a naked weight of 9.8-10kg which is a saving of around 2.2-2.4kg/ rim to OEM 18s 9Js IIRC. TeamDs 1.3s offer 10J aswell. £ for £ I think TDs (@ under £600) are a cheap alternative if needing rims anyway, after that rims get more expensive for
money I would prefer to spend elsewhere. :thumbs:

Indeed ... however the NEW DUNLOP DZo3g (to give them their full name ;) ) a direct replacement for DZ02g, are readily available and last longer, unlike the 265/35/18" Michelin CUPs which seem to have been discontinued :bigcry: The cost difference between Michelin & Dunlop is actually marginal (about £250 difference for a full set of 4 265/35/18 ) yet the Dunlops will outlast the Michelins by about 30-40 % + once up to temperature they are super reliable (as in confident grip) without any noticible roll off + super durable, lap after lap. I did 13 laps back to back @ Brands recently and usually manage 2-3 on the trot @ the Ring. It's only the car that needs a cool down brake, not the tyres. Swings & Roundabouts mate ;) It's really down to whatever you're happy with TBH :hahaha: What rubber U running on your Team D. 9J ?

Re: the Team Dynamics 9J rims... so 8.8 kg - 9.6 kg in total is the difference between these and my O.E. M3 rear 9J ... hmmm :smt017 is it really that noticible ?

[shimmy]

usually manage 2-3 on the trot @
?


:banghead: that bad?


my 265 Cups are gonna last me i think around 8-9 trackdays as a set. already done 5 and will swap them round front to back to make the most of the edges.

[mattCSLnut]

my 265 Cups are gonna last me i think around 8-9 trackdays as a set. already done 5 and will swap them round front to back to make the most of the edges.

That's not bad but I wonder how many Ring laps you could get out of them as well :whistle: I bought my DUNLOP DZ02 used, with 4 mm tread left on them (I think NEW they are 6 mm ). I have since done 4 TDs on them (including afternoon @ Spa) and 65 dry weather Ring laps and still 1.5 - 2 mm tread remain, enough for another 3 day weekend @ the Ring :whistle:
I'm still keen to try the 18" 265/35 Michelin CUPs but since it seems you've bought the last two UK sets :bigcry: that may not happen now :bigcry: I might have to bite the bullet and get NEW DUNLOP DZ03g instead :smokin:

[shimmy]

I'm still keen to try the 18" 265/35 Michelin CUPs but since it seems you've bought the last two UK sets :bigcry: that may not happen now :bigcry: I might have to bite the bullet and get NEW DUNLOP DZ03g instead :smokin:

ive emailed Michlin UK contact and will try supplier again next week :thumbs:

[karbonkid]

That's not bad but I wonder how many Ring laps you could get out of them as well :whistle: I bought my DUNLOP DZ02 used, with 4 mm tread left on them (I think NEW they are 6 mm ). I have since done 4 TDs on them (including afternoon @ Spa) and 65 dry weather Ring laps and still 1.5 - 2 mm tread remain, enough for another 3 day weekend @ the Ring :whistle:
I'm still keen to try the 18" 265/35 Michelin CUPs but since it seems you've bought the last two UK sets :bigcry: that may not happen now :bigcry: I might have to bite the bullet and get NEW DUNLOP DZ03g instead :smokin:

The TDs weight savings alone won't make you feel the difference. Its when adding up the 100+ kg I've shifted overall that has!

Dz03g: That's originally why I was curious for trying due to wear and good feedback, but at a thieving £1292 for a set of 265/18s when last looked, Cups got my vote at under £900, £390 aditional it wasn't worth thinking about the extra possible premature wear. I can still get Cups, but price has slightly risen.

[danaldo]

Dunlops were why I was considering 18's in the first place, run them on another car and they are great, last ages and good levels of grip, not interested in chasing 10th's on trackdays, more interested in how long a decent set of tyres will last and dunlops seem to have the edge over cups in this respect. Unfortunately they don't make 19"s:bigcry: