Clutch Issues

[DIB17]

Hi Guys. When driving hard and under highload, say changing gear anywhere above 5K rpm, with no lift of the throttle and fastest gear shift; as the clutch starts to engage, there is an increase in engine revs then as the clutch fully engages the revs settle and the car continues to accelerate. Is this clutch slur or a worn clutch? If I do the usual clutch test of accelerating from 30mph in 6th gear it does not slip. The car has done 58K miles and is on the original clutch. Driving hard does re-teach the clutch and the problem reduces but only lasts a day or so. Any advice would be appreciated as I would like to get you guys views before I discuss it with BMW.
Thanks, Dave

[shimmy]

i would guess clutch wear is the cause but i doubt the clutch is worn past the limits set by BMW

Both mine when changed were well within tollerances and changed under goodwill or warranty (as failed if not below limits)

Popular opinion is that the SMG software/kit cannot adjust very well for the slow wearing of the clutch and that eventually at some point causes clutch slip. Can be improved with certain driving styles and reprogramming of the software but will come back.

[DuncanR]

Welcome DIB17

[glendog74]

Welcome DIB17

1 post in 18 months of membership :thumbs:

[shimmy]

1 post in 18 months of membership :thumbs:


only just got TINTERNET in Birmingham ;)

[DIB17]

What is the wear limit set by BMW? The car is booked in for Friday so I want to be armed with as much info as possible so I can get it covered on the extended warranty.

[sailorbaz]

Here you go mate, a whole post on what to do and say to BMW, ;-)

CSLReg Linky (http://www.cslregister.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3162)

[grumps]

Bmw told me that mine was worn below the min spec and upon removal it was like new as was the dmf!I wish i could borrow their tool i'd make a killing on that basis:thumbs:

[Bounce]

What is the wear limit set by BMW? The car is booked in for Friday so I want to be armed with as much info as possible so I can get it covered on the extended warranty.I think its 1.1mm,i had a new clutch and fly wheel fitted under warranty due to clutch slur at 62k miles,the clutch plate was good for another 60k:thumbs:car is pulling like a train again now.;)

[DIB17]

Here you go mate, a whole post on what to do and say to BMW, ;-)

CSLReg Linky (http://www.cslregister.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3162)

I can't open this link for some reason...apparently I don't have permission! I have searched for the topic as well but cannot find it...any ideas guys?

[sailorbaz]

Here you go mate, a whole post on what to do and say to BMW, ;-)

CSLReg Linky (http://www.cslregister.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3162)

I can't open this link for some reason...apparently I don't have permission! I have searched for the topic as well but cannot find it...any ideas guys?

Ooops, sorry mate. That area is for Members only. To become a Member, I think you have to contribute towards upkeep of the site. :thumbs:

[Bounce]

I can't open this link for some reason...apparently I don't have permission! I have searched for the topic as well but cannot find it...any ideas guys?Got to pay up to see that link.:blalalala:and its a lot less than a new clutch to see it.;)

[Great Pretender]

Here you go mate, a whole post on what to do and say to BMW, ;-)

CSLReg Linky (http://www.cslregister.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3162)

Why can't I access that?

[sailorbaz]

Got to pay up to see that link.:blalalala:and its a lot less than a new clutch to see it.;)

:blalalala:

[Great Pretender]

Got to pay up to see that link.:blalalala:and its a lot less than a new clutch to see it.;)

How does one pay up/become a member?

[shimmy]

How does one pay up/become a member?


send me £500 via paypal, ill sort it ;)

[Great Pretender]

send me £500 via paypal, ill sort it ;)

But on a serious note...

I don't mind paying to support a community/access useful info.

How do I sign up?

[shimmy]

But on a serious note...

I don't mind paying to support a community/access useful info.

How do I sign up?


look for the DONATE button above. Most of it goes to the 'repaint the gaylord pink wheels foundation'

[Great Pretender]

look for the DONATE button above. Most of it goes to the 'repaint the gaylord pink wheels foundation'

Ah OK, I considered that. I assume it's discretionary, but I'd feel a bit of a pleb donating a fiver. What's an 'acceptable' amount?

[shimmy]

Ah OK, I considered that. I assume it's discretionary, but I'd feel a bit of a pleb donating a fiver. What's an 'acceptable' amount?

as you're Scottish whatever it ends up being, it will HURT :thumbs:

[sailorbaz]

Now now Shim, don't get us started on the Football...

A fiver's plenty Great Pretender!!! At least a pint and half in Rip-off Britain!!!

[Great Pretender]

as you're Scottish whatever it ends up being, it will HURT :thumbs:

4-1

Ouch ;)

[glendog74]

look for the DONATE button above. Most of it goes to the 'repaint the gaylord pink wheels foundation'

I wish that it did! :hahaha:

I may have to get a new colour now that someone else on here has the pink wheel bug :whistle:

[DIB17]

Car is in the garage today and clutch is off. Apparently it is not worn below the minimum but is warped! Apparently the car has done 7 launches using the launch control (I have had the car 2 yrs and never used it) and this invalidates the warranty on the clutch even though it is not worn!! Have you guys heard of this before? I have never read that anywhere and it certainly isn't in the small print anywhere on the extended warranty! Sytner are confirming where this is stated.
Any advice on how to progress as I believe it should be warranty? Any of you guys had this problem?

[shimmy]

Car is in the garage today and clutch is off. Apparently it is not worn below the minimum but is warped! Apparently the car has done 7 launches using the launch control (I have had the car 2 yrs and never used it) and this invalidates the warranty on the clutch even though it is not worn!! Have you guys heard of this before? I have never read that anywhere and it certainly isn't in the small print anywhere on the extended warranty! Sytner are confirming where this is stated.
Any advice on how to progress as I believe it should be warranty? Any of you guys had this problem?

never seen it written down about launches

push for good will and pay a contribution to the clutch (half labour) if all else fails and at least then you get 2 years warranty on it

[shane@mbtech]

Car is in the garage today and clutch is off. Apparently it is not worn below the minimum but is warped! Apparently the car has done 7 launches using the launch control (I have had the car 2 yrs and never used it) and this invalidates the warranty on the clutch even though it is not worn!! Have you guys heard of this before? I have never read that anywhere and it certainly isn't in the small print anywhere on the extended warranty! Sytner are confirming where this is stated.
Any advice on how to progress as I believe it should be warranty? Any of you guys had this problem?


Why put a feature on that invalidates warranty:banghead::banghead::banghead:

[_Nathan_]

There is no such number written anywhere in the user manual, be interesting to see how they try and use a documented feature of the car against you, next they'll make up a number for the max times you can use the indicators before the stalk isn't covered ;)

Was it an AUC when you bought it?

[DIB17]

I bought it approved used from Dick Lovett in Bristol, then extended the warranty to fully comp after the AUC warranty expired.

[_Nathan_]

I'd just say to them that you've never done a launch control and that if it is an issue with the warranty then the AUC checks should make sure the launches are counted and the clutch replaced before sale if it exceeds the made up maximum number they are quoting you.

[DuncanR]

Are the instructions for doing a launch control in the manual ? .. i really must get around to reading that one day !:banghead:
I dont ask this question so that I can go ahead and do one, as I was given full and comprehensive instructions on how to do one
by Lawsy and Shimmy whilst travelling on the Shuttle !! ... CSL engine was running as well !! ... the words " Dont for fooks sake let go of that gear knob" still spring to mind !

Andy @ Murks reckons that you would probs get away with 3, do any more, and they will get difficult ... BMW not the launches !

[shimmy]

Manual says something like 'excessive use causes premature component wear' but god knows what 'eccessive means' or 'component'.

Butvif clutchvis not worn what can they say?

[DuncanR]

I'd just say to them that you've never done a launch control and that if it is an issue with the warranty then the AUC checks should make sure the launches are counted and the clutch replaced before sale if it exceeds the made up maximum number they are quoting you.

Furthermore, assuming that when a launch is carried out, it documents either date/odometer or both, you can prove that you didnt do any launches from this info alone,as the date/odometer at time of the AUC will be recorded, as will your date/odometer reading at time of purchase !! simples !! CSL MIami strikes again !:thumbs:

[DIB17]

They cannot find it documented anywhere about the 7 times launched but they are adament it has been driven hard and so this has caused the warp which is still classified as wear and tear and therefore is not covered by warranty. Apparently the reginal technical manager was in this morning by coincidence and the technician asked him to have a look and he has said there is no way it will be covered by warranty! I have asked about goodwill but they are not having that either! Looks like I'm going to have to pay it and try and claim back. The software doesn't record the mileage at which the launch is done - just the number!

[DuncanR]

it has been driven hard and so this has caused the warp which is still classified as wear and tear and therefore is not covered by warranty. !
In that case, why arent nearly all our clutches warped then !!

Apparently the reginal technical manager was in this morning by coincidence and the technician asked him to have a look and he has said there is no way it will be covered by warranty! I have asked about goodwill but they are not having that either! Looks like I'm going to have to pay it and try and claim back. The software doesn't record the mileage at which the launch is done - just the number!

Tell him his attitude is why Murketts are looking after over 50 CSL's right now.

[Bounce]

In that case, why arent nearly all our clutches warped then !!



Tell him his attitude is why Murketts are looking after over 50 CSL's right now.64 CSLs at Andys last count.;)

[_Nathan_]

They are taking the piss. Driven hard? Ask them what the M in M3 stands for? Oh. Marketing ;)

[DIB17]

I shall be discussing this with Murketts tomorrow to get their views. Anyone know the best person to speak to there?

[_Nathan_]

Andy Pressland.

[DuncanR]

Andy Pressland.

What he said !:thumbs:

[Bounce]

What he said !:thumbs:+1;)

[shimmy]

I shall be discussing this with Murketts tomorrow to get their views. Anyone know the best person to speak to there?


just to be clear Andy doesnt do any more than ask the right people the right questions at BMWUK


He knows thru trial and error what bmw will and wont give as warranty and good will on the CSL and takes genuine cases forward to whatever conclusion

unlike alot of other dealers who just cant be bothered or are too big headed to ask

[shane@mbtech]

just to be clear Andy doesnt do any more than ask the right people the right questions at BMWUK


He knows thru trial and error what bmw will and wont give as warranty and good will on the CSL and takes genuine cases forward to whatever conclusion

unlike alot of other dealers who just cant be bothered or are too big headed to ask


Very well put Shimmy.

He is rare these days in that he is good at his job.

[_Nathan_]

And that he gives a fook.

[DIB17]

Not looking good!

I have spoken to Andy Pressland at Murketts (He is a really nice guy and very helpful) and he agrees with the verdict from Sytner. The only way the clutch plate would get warped would be due to overheating and that would only happen from the launches. No other form of driving including lots of trackdays would put that much load and heat into the clutch! So it's as a result of the way the car has been driven and not a component failure. His advice was to persue it through BMW customer services and BMW GB.

I have spoked to customer services and explained the situation. The process is for Sytner to raise the complaint with BMW GB, and they would send in the regional technical manager to inspect and validate the clutch, he has the final say! But as he was in Sytner yesterday, and has already seen the clutch and said definatley not covered by warranty due to wear and tear from the way the car has been driven - it's not looking particularly good!!

I am continuing to pursue it, more along the lines of goodwill now but it's not looking hopefull! Any more ideas from you guys?
Dave

[BADCSL]

had the same problem with clutch riding, taken it to bmw. they reset computer and when i went to pick it up they told me it was fine. took it down the road with the workshop supervisor and was still riding. Eventually bmw has agreed to replace the clutch kit and new flywheel. will get car next week. will keep u posted. thank god for motorplan.

[NZ_M3]

I recently got myself a clone GT1 and have been looking through the diagnostic functions within the SMGII control unit - interestingly there's lot more functions than I initially thought and I now have an alternative theory to the slur.

On the service functions there are usually 4 procedures involved whenever a clutch kit is replaced or the gearbox is pulled:

1. Re-teach clutch curve
2. Reset clutch slip point
3. Full gearbox adaptation
4. Re-teach longitudinal acceleration sensor.

Each of these are done in a particular order - if you do one before the other the gear operation doesn't work properly (yes I tried it and it was horrible haha ... ended up throwing a couple of codes which I had to clear :hahaha:)

These are the normal functions performed by BMW whenever they are told a clutch is slipping (usually they will simply reset the clutch curve and re teach the slip point as an initial measure).

In addition to this there's also an additional reset function for the clutch curve - this I am presuming must be a rest of adaptation values within the software.

Now if the hydraulics are opened up there are separate function that "vent" various valves within the hydraulic system - these are usually NEVER performed.

I've yet to try it on my car as personally I reset my clutch curve and reset the clutch slip point on a very regular basis and I don't have any slip or slur issues.

I am still going through all the functions on the valve vents - but a couple of these relate to the clutch hydraulics (I am not talking about bleeding the clutch reservoir fluid here - it's something else as far as I can tell).

My point here is - much like a normal manual transmission - if the hydraulics aren't bled properly (or the valves operating them) you are going to get slip even if you do the full readaptation functions - I personally think this has a big variance on why we are seeing slips in the clutch system. Put it this way, when was the last time any of the owners actually got the dealership to bleed their clutch system or the SMG pump?

I've also been tempted to fully reprogram the SMG control unit via the SSS progman, but have been a bit too scared about bricking my control unit - maybe later when I've learnt how to use the GT1 and SSS properly.

[grumps]

When i had clutch troubles i asked bmw to check if it had the latest software and they said they were not aware of any updates after telling them their was! A week ago i took delivery of a autologic diagnostic unit and guess what their was an update!I carried it out which has made for a smoother change! so as they say if you want it doing do it yourself.:banghead:

[DIB17]

Just a year after having a new clutch fitted it's slurring again and also, sometimes there is a small judder when pulling away, especially low speeds in second. Back in the garage today and they need to remove the gearbox to look at the clutch plate.

Lets hope they don't come back with bullshit about the clutch plate being worn and not covered by warranty!! Am I right in saying a new clutch comes with 2 years warranty? I have extended warranty and there is no way it can be worn in a year and 8,000 miles!!

We all know BMW are tightening their belts with warranty payouts so I hope they aren't going to turn into coonts with this one!!!

Dave

[MKoop]

Just a year after having a new clutch fitted it's slurring again and also, sometimes there is a small judder when pulling away, especially low speeds in second. Back in the garage today and they need to remove the gearbox to look at the clutch plate.

Lets hope they don't come back with bullshit about the clutch plate being worn and not covered by warranty!! Am I right in saying a new clutch comes with 2 years warranty? I have extended warranty and there is no way it can be worn in a year and 8,000 miles!!

We all know BMW are tightening their belts with warranty payouts so I hope they aren't going to turn into coonts with this one!!!

Dave

I feel your pain:banghead:
Had to fork out after the clutch started sluring even with warranty.
As far as I know you have a two year warranty on a new clutch & should replace free of charge.

[DuncanR]

It costs a lot of money obviously to keep a clutch working in tip top condition ! You have to thrash the bollocks out of it on the road, at loads of UK trackdays, and around the Ring like I have, costs a fortune in fuel, hotels, tyres, ferries,JK's, and TD's, but it works !! :hahaha::banghead:...after all the miles mine has done, the gearbox/ clutch is the only left to change on the broom.... thats fooked it now i bet !

[DIB17]

Turns out the clutch and flywheel is contaminated from a minor oil leak from the rear seal. New clutch and flywheel under warranty! :thumbs:

[Mark CSL]

My clutch slurry has show its ugly head again so its off to bmw at some point this week to get it sorted i will update this when i get some feedback from my dealer :whistle:

[s.mac]

we already know the answer Mark :whistle:

[Mark CSL]

we already know the answer Mark :whistle:

Does it begin with W and end in Y :whistle:

[Mark CSL]

Update they are going to reset the clutch adaptations to see if this sorts it
And I have to pay for this I don’t think this is right as the car should not need this done unless there is a new clutch fitted.
Its only £50.18 still its not me that made the car need this and it might not sort it.

Your Thoughts ????????????????

[need4speed]

You need to pay for something sometime Mark ;)

[Bounce]

Update they are going to reset the clutch adaptations to see if this sorts it
And I have to pay for this I don’t think this is right as the car should not need this done unless there is a new clutch fitted.
Its only £50.18 still its not me that made the car need this and it might not sort it.

Your Thoughts ????????????????If I remember correctly this happened to me,the warranty won't pay out unless BMW try this first.When the reset doesn't work and you get another new clutch and fly wheel,claim your 50quid back from them.:-D

[CraigMillwardCroft]

You need to pay for something sometime Mark ;)
He just is not use to paying for anything on the car :whistle:

[Mark CSL]

You need to pay for something sometime Mark ;)
If it fixes it it will be money well spent grant
But I think it will do it again

If I remember correctly this happened to me,the warranty won't pay out unless BMW try this first.When the reset doesn't work and you get another new clutch and fly wheel,claim your 50quid back from them.:-D
I will if it does not sort it

He just is not use to paying for anything on the car :whistle:
I pay the warranty and servicing what more do they want :hahaha:

[Mark CSL]

Ok the beast is back in its stable all sorted thanks to BMW

There was an oil leak on the rear crankshaft oil seal and the shaft in the picture part 1 was worn on 1 side stopping the release bearing working ok,
also there was an oil leak from a speed sensor.

The work was all done under the BMW Warranty no charge
as i have the full 0 excess warranty :supz:

Happy Days :smokin: